New guy looking for some HELP / ADVICE

[slouiscar]

First off I am quite new to SW but I am addicted & in love. I may be obbsessing a bit so I apologize in advance if these are silly questions, but I would love some advice and input from anyone who can provide it. I'll list them in order of importance. (Also, let me know if you would disagree w/ my priorities.)
Bkrd: I have a 29 gallon tank w/ an eclipse hood & lighting. It has a carbon and biowheel filter. I have a crushed coral substrate and just over 20lbs of live rock. I have an airstone and a powerjet. I have been cycling the system with the live rock for just over three weeks. Parameters are: Temp: 78F, Sal: 1.024, Ph: 8.0, Ammonia: 0, Nitrite: 0, Nitrate: 0.
1.)After the third week of cycling, my parameters looked OK. So I was hoping my cycle was close to completion. I was getting fish hungry so I added one domino damsel. My thinking was that it is hardy (and cheap) and it could test out my system. I would monitor the parameters and look for any spike in ammonia etc… plus she is almost a cool looking little fish. Anyway, thinks look great. She is happy as can be, swimming all over, eating well etc. and after almost a week no major change in parameters. Am I cycled? Here’s the BIG QUESTION. I would like to add a false percula clown next. Is the Domino Damsel going to be a pain in my new fishes ass? Should I take the Domi out? Rearrange my rockwork? Or am I overanalyzing territoriality and it will be OK. I have seen tanks with both fish and it does appear that there is plenty of room here for 2 fish. Obviously, I would prefer both but the clown will certainly be the priority.
2.)During Setup I added some fresh fiji live rock from a reputable source. A minute or two after I popped it in I noticed what looked like a brownish grey worm coming out of a hole. After inspection I noticed it moving with the current and contracting. I assume it was an arm of an anemone. I immediately researched apistia and compared some images. It did not resemble what I saw. Since then it has retracted into the hole and I haven’t seen it since. I have heard of good bonus stowaways. Is it possible? Is it evil? Or is it dead? I was planning down the road to get a fire shrimp, should I toss that idea and instead go with a peppermint just in case? (I had my heart set on the fire shrimp! But I'm not sure I should put both in a 29 gallon tank. Would that be OK if I did?)
3.)A week and a half into cycling I got that brown crap growing on my substrate, live rock and glass. I read up and it seemed like it was diatoms. I added five blue legged hermit crabs and vacuumed the substrate, cleaned the glass and brushed some off the live rocks. I have heard that it is normal. I have heard that it is a good sign. But, it really aggravated me. I see very light growth still. ASSURE ME. I am a freak. I obsess. I want a clean healthy tank for the long term. Is this really ok? Is it really ok to just let the crabs go after it? Should I add a turbo snail or two? (On a side note… how long before I should provide alternative shells for the crabs? They are doing great. One has changed shells already with one from my substrate. Another has molted. I noticed two then three climbing all over each other & staying attached for a while when I dropped them in. What was that all about? Was it a crab orgy? Are they attacking?)
LET ME THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR ANY INPUT, ADVICE, ASSURANCE OR OTHER SUGGESTIONS YOU CAN PROVIDE TO A NEW FANATIC. IT IS ALL GREATLY APPRECIATED.

 

[slouiscar]

Thanks.
A feather duster worm? That would be awesome.
The CC has to stay for a while. I'll consider a change down the road.
The bubbles are out.
As for the domino... Anyone else with a suggestion. I'll part with the five bucks if I have to but I have seen mini reef tanks with both a domi and a clown. It can work, but how?

 

[sagxman]

Most LFSs will give you store credit for the damsel. Good luck getting him out without rearranging your live rock. You'll probably prefer to have him out though.
I would get some snails. They will take care of the diatoms on the glass where the hermits obviously cannot reach.
Sounds to me like you are through your cycle. Just keep taking it slow.
Hard to say what your stowaway is. It could be one of many things. I doubt it is a feather duster, but I wouldn't be surprised if you have some on your live rock. I have 2 in particular that hitch hiked in and have been living in my sand bed for well over a year and have gotten very large (not the size of a hawaiian) but much larger than any other hitch hiker tube worm I have.
As for your shrimp, I'll pass that to someone with more experience. I have two peppermint shrimp but am not familiar with the flame shrimp. HTH

 

[fishphreak]

I was told by the pet store that the clowns would be fine with the damsels. It has something to do with the way they swim. I was told there would be minimal aggression when first introduced but that would stop as they got used to each other.
I have a 29g with 3 damsels and I am getting 2 percs (true perc and black and white perc). But I was told that the more rockwork the better. So I bought more live rock, about 70lbs total. It doesn't sound like a lot, but for a 29g it is a good bit.
I was also told that host anemones would help because they could hide in the anemones if they were bullied. Bubble tip anemones are supposed to good for the percs and they cost approx. $30 (more or less depending on where you shop).
There are things you can do to help with the aggression. Like feed them smaller portions of food more often. Don't leave the lights on as often. Catch one in a net and hang it like that for 2 hours in your tank. That one really worked for me when I had a problem with my yellow tail blue damsel terrorizing my domino. I never actually caught him but the chasing him around the tank with the net changed his attitude. I haven't had a problem since.
It may be better to take your damsel back to the pet store but in my case I love my damsels and I am going to do everything I can to Keep them and get my clownfish.
Oh, if you want to try to keep your damsel and get the clown try to do it when you will be home all day, that way you can keep an eye on them and distract them if they get too aggressive. Waving my arms in front of the tank has worked for me before and it isn't very stressful to the fish.
You may have to monitor them until they get used to each other but it is very possible to keep damsels and clowns together.

 

[slouiscar]

Thanks Sagx. I'll keep an eye out for my live rock stowaway. From what I saw & hear it most likely is not a nuisace anenome. Also I'll get on those turbo snails.
Phreak: I appreciate the detailed info. Sounds like you have already examined what I am just now looking into. I would prefer to keep the domino. As of right now I will. I'll add some more live rock and I'll introduce the clowns when I am home all day. I'll chase off the domino with the net for a while. Will that shock other inhabitants?
I have to say I am getting a mixed response regarding keeping the damsel. I don't want to stress $30 subjects with a $5 nuisance.
Anyone else have an opinion on the matter?
Thanks.

 

[fishphreak]

It didn't put too much stress on my other fish, granted they were scared but not too badly.
basically, it will be different for everybody. What works in one tank for one person may not necessarily work in annother tank for someone else.
No one can tell you for sure if it will or will not work. It can go either way, so what it really comes down to is do you want to risk it.
I am going to risk it because I love my little guys and I don't want to give them back to the pet store. So I am going to try it....but if isn't doesn't look like I can keep the aggression under control I will take one of them back.
Good Luck!

 

[sagxman]

Maybe someone should net FishPhreak and hold her in a glass enclosed corner for a few hours. Or chase her around the room with a giant green net. Maybe other people will be in the room to watch and be a scared a little but "not to badly." Come on, that's a pet that you are torturing. Nets can be very harmful to fish. If you love them so much, stop!
slouiscar: to lead you back in the right direction, DON'T use the net tactic. You may be able to keep your damsel with the perc. Just make sure to feed him before you put the perc. in and watch them closely for a while. If it were me, I'd take him back to the LFS though. Also, I would suggest not getting an anemone any time soon. I doubt you have enough light for one and your tank is not established enough yet. They are not for brand new tanks and even in established tanks they can be difficult to keep. Good luck.

 

[slouiscar]

I'm hearing more -'s than +'s for this domino. But I did see a nice tank locally that had both. They seemed fine. Thats why I chose him to test my cycle.
Cari: It sounds like you had a domino and a clown in a tank together and it wasn't good. Is that a fair assesment? If so, its back to the dealer he goes. Although my "loyal" dealer claims its not a problem.
Is my dealer misleading me?!? Or is he just slow?
I'm not interested in an anemone. I thought I may have had a stowaway on a rock.
CC's got to stay. I'll replace it but I need some fish to look at first!!

 

[sagxman]

I doubt your LFS guy is actually trying to mislead you. I'd say he's neither right nor wrong. It may work out great with both fish, but you may be having a funeral at sea for one. I would agree that there are more -'s than +'s.
Oh, and the hitch hiker anemone, if you're talking about the aptasia (sp), I wouldn't considder that anything special. They are more bothersome than anything else. I do have a friend though who loves them. Our LFS gives him all of the ones they end up with for free. LOL

 

[slouiscar]

Thank you Cari.
That settles it. I bought him to finish cycling the tank. When that is verified... OUT HE GOES.
Can anyone convince me otherwise?

 

[slouiscar]

Not an aptasia.

 

[debbie g]

My vote is for saying goodbye to the damsel. You will be heartbroken when you see what he will put your clowns through. Not worth risking.

 

[wbilton]

I have a 3 striped damsel and a true perc. they get along fine.

 

[slouiscar]

WBilton...
As the ladies will tell you... size matters.
Do I have enough? laugh
Your profile says you have an 80g setup. Thas Big. Is 29 gallons enough for a damsel - clown mix? Do yours have clear territory? Do they squabble?
I am getting so many mixed signals!!!! AAAhhhhhh.

 

[fishphreak]

SaGx,
There is no need to get attitude with me, I'm just trying to help. And I was just doing what the pet store told me to do. Nets are not necessarily harmful to the fish if you net them properly.
And I did not chase my fish for "a few hours". I spent about 5 minutes trying to catch him and couldn't do it without backing him into a corner which i didn't want to do. And he wasn't too scared because he didn't swim away in a panic (like he was making my domino do)....he just sorta avoided it. That is what I meant when I said they weren't too scared. But that may be simply because I wasn't chasing him aggressively because I didn't want to torture him.
It may not be the best idea but it did save my fish's life, and there wasn't a whole lot else I could do...he had already killed one of my fish.

 

[tizzo]

Originally posted by SaGxMAN
Maybe someone should net FishPhreak and hold her in a glass enclosed corner for a few hours. Or chase her around the room with a giant green net. Maybe other people will be in the room to watch and be a scared a little but "not to badly." Come on, that's a pet that you are torturing.
Yeah, if FishPhreak had killed one person, and threatened another I believe that I WOULD like to see her...inconvienced for a while.
Slouiscar, Get rid of the domino while you stlii can, MOST damsels have a cave or nitch that they hide in, so even if he does tolerate the clown, you may never see him & that's 1 or 2 inches of fish that you can apply to something else. IMO
As far as your diatom problem, as long as you have cc you MAY keep it...
I have cc (didn't know any better at the time), I have MANY snails, 5 mex. turbos, 18 hermits, r/o water & I STILL get diatoms. Although not near as bad as the set-up.
I am a little worried about your cycle though, what did you START the cycle with? Was it the LR? And you mentioned vacuuming the cc, did you do water changes while the tank was supposed to be cycling?
The worm thing, I had a stow-away tube anoemne, at least that's what it looks like, VERY tiny... It's "tube" looked just like a feather duster's, but it would retract into the rock when I got close to the tank (he was very near the front), anyway now that he's bigger, same tube, but his tentacles are black/white
"striped?" and he comes way out of his hole at night. That might be something to research for you.
O.K about the crabs, what kind did you get? Some NEED to climb, so they use each other.

 

[slouiscar]

Tizzo: Thanks for all the info.
First, I purchased the domino to verify my cycle was close to completion and my tank was fish safe. After another week he is going back to the LFS! I am convinced that is the path to a happy tank.
Second, my LFS warned me about the CC! Unfortunately I had purchased it already online and I already had it in the tank. Being a newbie and on a budget I ignored him and didn't change to sand. I will. But I have to live with it for a while. I am planning on getting some turbo's. I guess I just wanted to know that diatoms were a normal occurance and that in time it will get under control or not be as bad as during setup.
As for my cycle I went about a week cycling with fish food. Then two weeks with the live rock and more food. My parameters looked OK: 0 ammonia, 0 NO2, 0 NO3. At that time the diatoms hit. First I added the blue legged hermit crabs. They got right to work... but it looked like too big a task for just them. So I cleaned the glass, vacuumed lightly and replaced 2-3 gallons with filtered water. (Previously I had used unfiltered and I was worried that was the culprit. I am new! Please forgive me.) Right after that I introduced the domino. Mostly out of concern for my cycle. I figured "worst case scenerio" the damsil would assist in finishing it off. I am testing again tonight, this will be the end of the fourth week. Regardless of the readings I plan to go another week with the damsil before replacing it.

 

[birdy]

sounds like you are on the right track to me:
With the cc substrate be sure you vaccume the cc with every water change to get all those nasties out of the water.
You say you used filtered water- What type of filter, unless it is RO/DI you may continue to have problems with diatoms and other types of nuisance algea.
Good luck, glad you are here!

 

[slouiscar]

Birdy: thanks!!
As for the water: Thats the thing!! I have been unsucessful so far in finding a dealer with RO/DI water. ...and since I'm a newbie I can't bring myself to shell out $250 for my own filter.
One local dealer told me he sells "filtered" water but added that it is filtered of bacteria and impurities but he danced around the RO/DI topic. He has a shop full of tanks that look pretty good, although only 9 of them are saltwater. I figured that was better than nothing at this point for $0.79 per gallon.
And its not like I live out in the desert somewhere!! Any suggestions on where else to look?
Also I have heard that if your tap water is low in phosphates or other stuff RO/DI is unnecessary. Is that accurate? What should be tested for? Who tests tapwater for all that stuff?

 

[birdy]

A lot of major grocery stores carry RO water, also you can use distilled, As MissCrayon said. Of course a big worry is the nitrates and phophates in the water (which you can test with a fresh water test kit) but there are lots of other bad things in the water like heavy metals. More than likely you will want to get your own unit, usually you can get one for around $100 online.
by the way $.79 for "filtered water" is very expensive IMO, Most of the LFS around here sell RO/DI for around $.30.