New Hobbyist - Tank & Fish Questions

real

New Member
SWF Hobbyists,
I am very interested in starting my own saltwater tank. I have never had an aquarium but my family has had several small-scale freshwater tanks; we do have a minature pond that contains various goldfish including koi as well. A few people reccomend that I do not start with saltwater because it is hard to maintain, but I have read and heard otherwise. One person at a local fish store even went so far as to insult me "A saltwater tank is not the way to go if you have never had your own aquarium, it requires patience and money. You'll need to spend at least $1000 in accessories to start." Rude, snotty (his tone) and untrue, I thought. One, I have the money and two, I have the patience. I enjoy growing plants of all kinds. I'm interested in the saltwater, not the freshwater, and I'm sure I can dive in rather than wade in. The right information and dedication is all that's needed, as with anything. I have been reading boat loads of information about starting a saltwater tank, I'm still a bit confused about some things and I did my best to research before askign simple questions. I hope I'm not polluting the tank here, but I was hoping maybe a few of you could answer some questions for a new hobbyist.
-First off, I have been reading a lot of the articles on ***********.Com, can anyone reccomend any more sources for new hobbyists? Possibly a guide to setting up a new tank? I would like to start a 55gal. saltwater tank, mainly because A.) I want a nice big beautiful tank, 55gal was a perfect size for my preference and B.) The bigger it is the harder the system is to break, so I have read... any sources would be greatly appreciated.
-Secondly, many fish are not reef compatible. What exactly does this mean? I would eventually like to put corals and other types of plants in my tank, to me, that's half the fun. What do "reefs" consist of exactly (just coral? anemones?) ?
-And third, what are some good types of fish to start with? I've been reccomended to Damsels and Clownfish, I figured I'd start with those two. I didn't want to get more than one of each though because of terrirtorial issues I have researched with these fish (it also just seems like a bad idea to put two schools of fish into the tank first and have trouble possibly acclimating a thirdfourth fish that are not in schools? I am unsure of this, just a thought), and I'd like to start with a little bit more than 2 fish. I'd like to choose fish that are reef compatible, seeing how as in the future I would like to place corals and grow other plants of some (unknown, really...) kind and I would like to choose fish that are compatible with Damsels and Clowns. Any reccomendations are great.
-When a site (like this) lists the size of the fish, is that the initial size or the maximum size?
-Does a fish really require 100gal. minimum, or is that just full potential for it to grow to maximum size?
I hope I am not asking simple questions that I may have missed or skimmed over, but I really don't skim so I just havn't found the right material. I may just go buy or loan a book from a local library as well. I hope I am not wasting anyones time. A very nice community here! Thanks considerably for everyones hardwork and dedication, and most importantly, knowledge and friendship!
 

karajay

Active Member
WELCOME

A good book - The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Fenner
Don't get damsels, miserable territorial fish and a pain to catch once you get 'em in there.
Most online fish retailers list the shipping size - not the adult size. A clown trigger (for example) ships around 2" and can grow over 20". If it states that you need a 100 g, you need at least that. You cannot try to stunt it's growth by putting it in a smaller tank. It will just get stressed and die. When in doubt about a fish, ask on this board first.
Reef-safe basically means that a fish will not eat your corals or inverts.
Careful research BEFORE you buy cannot be stressed enough. It saves money, grief and the lives of creatures.
 

flydan

Active Member
Hey,
I would also recommend a couple of good books as a place to start. I wouldn't really trust the public library since their material on the subject would tend to be dated. There have been wonderful advances in this hobby in the last few years and you might get bad info from old books. The book mentioned earlier is a good one. I also like "Natural Reef Aquariums" by John Tullock.
The FAQ button on the top of this screen can save you time as well as the "search" feature. You could type in "Caulerpa" for instance and learn a lot about it in a short time.
HTH,
Dan'l
 

real

New Member
Thank you all for your references and answers!
In reply to DevilBoy, yes everyone could see someone spending that amount, but I know that it is not required. Now I know he was just talking from experience, but he looked at me like some snot who was A.) Poor B.) UNPATIENT and C.) temporarily interested in some fish with cool colours. That is as far from the truth as it gets. An aquarium is a fantastic hobby! I used to grow a lot of plants that took careful attention and I loved the hobby, but I've grown out of the lifestyle and I would enjoy raising a tank, seeing the fish thrive, and growing some plantlifecoral as well. It fits me well.
But btw, I did goto RMS, they have a 55gal. tank with stand and everything needed to get started (Emperor 400, salt, test kits, etc. etc.) on sale for $199. I'm currently in the process of transfering jobs so I'm doing all the research and financial calculations I can now while I have the extra
time and no money to do much of anything.
However, the fish store that has been aiding me in knowledge and inspiration is Aquarium Adventure off Ridge road near 480.
Thank you and *BUMP*!
 

bencc

Member
It is possible to get started in the hobby for less than a $1000 dollars no problem, it's when you start wanting to get your tank ready for reef that it gets a little expensive. If you watch ---- you can find some good deals on things. I have done a few Do it yourself projects that have saved me lots of money. I built my protein skimmer and IMO it is working well making lots of nasty skimmate also built a refugium to grow macro algae and I built my canopy and my stand. I am now getting ready to go reef and I found a really good deal on Metal Halide lighting on ----. 100 bucks for everything including coralvue 250 watt 12000k bulb. Anyway that is my view on things.
 

real

New Member
Bencc - I havn't looked into it to much, lighting specifications for reef tanks that is, but if you're looking into metal halides I would highly reccomend InsideSun.Com, 1000bulbs.Com, and of course, ----.Com. InsideSun has a reputable history with me and my buddies when I was into plants and such. HPS and MV lights may work too, although I don't know what spectrum is best - I'm sure it's MH as I've seen that brought up a lot. Be careful where you buy lights from!
DevilBoy - Yeah Aquarium Adventure is a real nice store, I like most of the people and the fish are pretty nice. What are your opinions about buying fish from a store? What about fish on sale (the ones that have no guarntee)? Where do you buy your fish from?
The tank seems like an incredibly good deal, although the tank does come with a stand, it is not wood, it is iron and is not enclosed, but still nice. I'm quite pissed to be honest becauseI don't have the cash as of the moment to get into the hobby and the deal seems so nice. It is the same 55gal kit featured on ***********'s store. ($350)
 

fire30b

Member
hey real. I think the people at Aquarium Adventures know alittle more than the people at RMS. Look for Crystal at AA, she is very helpful. I will only buy products from RMS they have a cheaper price. Buy your fish at AA. Also look at buying another filter instead of the emperor 400. I bought my aquarium set from RMS w/the emperor 400 but I don't think that is the best filter for saltwater. It is great for freshwater. I ended up buying the magnum 350 which works really good. I kept the emperor on for extra filteration.
 
C

capschamp

Guest
Welcome! You're starting in the right place by asking questions here and I agree with the others by reading up a lot. Don't get fish to cycle your tank, I used 20 lbs of live rock and 10 lbs of base rock to cycle my tank and it cycled in 2 1/2 weeks. I now have 2 percs that are doing wonderful. This website has great details about fish and their compatability. You can get started for a lot less than 1000 if you shop right. Look at least 3 different places and check ---- as well. Everyone on this website is very knowledgeable and I would be lost without referring here
.
 

badkharma

Member
Welcome!! This hobby is great! You'll love it. Personally, I'd rather find a wood stand, IMHO it looks much better, plus you can put stuff underneath like a fuge or canister filter in the future. If you are only starting out with a FOWLR (fish-only with live rock - ie. NOT reef) an emperor 400 filter will be fine. I started with that and it's very reliable, pretty quiet, and gets the job done. You just have to watch out for high nitrates from the bio-wheels, but doing your regular water changes prevents that. Once you go to a reef setup, you might want to switch filters, or at least add another one, perhaps a canister, or maybe setup a refugium. A protein skimmer is NOT a must for a FOWLR tank, but it's good to have one in the best interest of your tankmates - cleans up the scum pretty good. I recommend an Aqua-C remora Pro. A little more expensive then some others, but definitely top of the line for hang-on skimmers. In this hobby, you get what you pay for. A great book: the conscientious marine aquarist. Get it. Many consider it the bible for this hobby. :) Good luck!
 
M

mailman441

Guest
real and fire aquarium adventure is way overpriced especially on livestock. coral connection in willoughby great for livestock but no equipment they will order any fish u need cheap too. my emp400 with remora pro skimmer works excellent on my 75 prestine water conditions.
 

fire30b

Member
hey mailman. The reason I ended up buying the magnum 350 was because someone said inorder to have a tang you will need better filteration than the emperor 400. Where they right or wrong? I agree that Aquarium Adventure is overpriced but there live stock looks alot better than RMS. I'm going to just order my fish online. You get better selection online.
 

real

New Member
Again I would like to thank all of you for being so kind and generous to new hobbyists here, this is unlike a lot of forums where "newbies" get bashed a lot, even unintentionally. I really appreciate the discussion and the answers and insight, although personal, have given me a world of help!
fire30b - hey real. I think the people at Aquarium Adventures know alittle more than the people at RMS. Look for Crystal at AA, she is very helpful. I will only buy products from RMS they have a cheaper price. Buy your fish at AA. Also look at buying another filter instead of the emperor 400. I bought my aquarium set from RMS w/the emperor 400 but I don't think that is the best filter for saltwater. It is great for freshwater. I ended up buying the magnum 350 which works really good. I kept the emperor on for extra filteration.
It's funny you mention that because I met Crystal the other day at AA and she seemed pretty easygoing and very simple about the whole thing when I asked her general questions about SWT like maintenance and equipment. "As long as you have a good filter, protein skimmer, etc, you got those things and you're set, theres no going wrong!" although reassuring, theres always something to go wrong, but she was very kind and told me whenever I was ready to set up a tank, give her a call and she'd tell me everything i need to do to set up the tank i'd like and she gave me her card. The person I talked to that really got me seriously interested was Alex, about 18 or so at AA. Very nice kid who offered a lot of insight and preference. Very nice people there.
The answers I've recieved here have given me a few giant steps in the right direction as far as where i want to go with my future tank. My general outline of very random things:
-I'd like a 55gal. tank
-It will be FOWLR until I feel the system is confident enough to support corals
-I will not buy Damsels (i'm not completely sure), i think 1-3 clownfish would be one good type of first fish, still hunting for more hardy newby fish; but I will make sure my fish are live-rock compatible and reef compatible seeing as how I would like to eventually incorporate some nice coral into my tank and i hear cured liverock does very good things for filtration and healthyness... although, my girlfriend always begs me to get a puffer, SHE'S IN LOVE WITH THEM FOR SOME REASON!! and those will eat the liverock so I'm told. Although, I wondered if possibly it was smaller when bought and tank raised, maybe it won't have such a tendency to do so, and I hear it really all depends on the fish; not all puffers will eat live rock, etc.
-If I can still find that deal with the emperor 400, i will settle for that and when i decide to go reef, buying another filter will only benefit the fish and the aquarium, so it kind of forces me to make my tank top-notch.
-A protein skimmer would only benefit me
So i dont know, just trying to plan out what i'd like to do before i start spending money, which is what i keep getting told. Figure out exactly what you like before you start dumping money on different things because it adds up really quick. So buying store fish is ok? Ive seen many of them at AA swim sideways, at first i thought they were just goofy fish, but i guess it is not healthy. Heh...
Time for bed! Thanks a million!
 

karajay

Active Member
Never heard of a fish that eats rocks :notsure:
Puffers are pretty darn cute, but most of them will outgrow a 55g fairly quickly. A Valentini puffer may be worth considering, they stay smaller (about 4"). Be aware that they are not safe with inverts (shrimp, crabs, snails may be viewed as food).
:scared:
 

shrkbait

Member

Originally posted by Real
The answers I've recieved here have given me a few giant steps in the right direction as far as where i want to go with my future tank. My general outline of very random things:
-I'd like a 55gal. tank
-It will be FOWLR until I feel the system is confident enough to support corals
-I will not buy Damsels (i'm not completely sure), i think 1-3 clownfish would be one good type of first fish, still hunting for more hardy newby fish; but I will make sure my fish are live-rock compatible and reef compatible seeing as how I would like to eventually incorporate some nice coral into my tank and i hear cured liverock does very good things for filtration and healthyness... although, my girlfriend always begs me to get a puffer, SHE'S IN LOVE WITH THEM FOR SOME REASON!! and those will eat the liverock so I'm told. Although, I wondered if possibly it was smaller when bought and tank raised, maybe it won't have such a tendency to do so, and I hear it really all depends on the fish; not all puffers will eat live rock, etc.
-If I can still find that deal with the emperor 400, i will settle for that and when i decide to go reef, buying another filter will only benefit the fish and the aquarium, so it kind of forces me to make my tank top-notch.
-A protein skimmer would only benefit me
So i dont know, just trying to plan out what i'd like to do before i start spending money, which is what i keep getting told. Figure out exactly what you like before you start dumping money on different things because it adds up really quick. So buying store fish is ok? Ive seen many of them at AA swim sideways, at first i thought they were just goofy fish, but i guess it is not healthy. Heh...
Time for bed! Thanks a million!

Just a few coments on the clowns, puffer, rock, and skimmer
First...a skimmer is almost a must. Not that its absolutely nessasary, but you will always be glad that you hae one. Strongly recomended.
Rock...Most fish wont hurt rock. What they hurt(if anything) is your corals and inverts(maybe even other fish). Some munch on corals to get food particles off the surfaces. Others fancy your crabs and snails. These are generally the larger size fish that will do this. For a reef tank @55Gall 5to6 small 2"-3" fish are a good amount. Inverts are highly vulnerable to bad water and fish pollute heavily. The fish can handle their own waste, so that is not that big of an issue. If in starting with a FOWLR you get 10-12 2"-5" fish just keep in mind that you will have to get rid of some when you go reef...and a skimmer will come in handy for that many fish.
Clowns...Three clowns is no that good. When they are small they school together but as they grow and mature they pair off. The best is to start with two small juvinile clowns of the same species. Get one a little bigger than the other...what will happen is that(all clowns are male when juvinile)the bigger one will become dominant over time and will become female. You now have a pair of clown fish that may mate. Large adult clowns of same or even different species will fight usually till two die and one is left. Just something to think about. There are tips on getting them to host in anenomes if your interested.(anenomes need high quality water and very good light usually...just a caution)
Puffer...There are many types of puffers. Some not so good as others. Get a small one if you want to get one. Yes their diet includes other fish and certain inverts...but Ive been told that if you keep them well fed, they usually wont cause trouble. They usually form a bond(very friendly) with you and recognize you as their source of food(the hand that feeds them). They will be very attentive to you and are adorable. This comes from stuff Ive read and my friend who has first hand experience. Dont be disapointed if they dont puff. My friends puffer only got scared once that he can remember. The puffer latched onto a girls finger(she was feeding him) and it scared her so she flinched...Puffer went flying and filled himself with air as he lay on the floor of the house. He went back into the tank and there were no problems after that. Just goes to show "dont bite the hand that feeds you."
sorry....
Some types of puffers/box fishes can emit toxic substances when they are stressed or frightened and may wipe out your whole tank incuding itself...just be aware.
One last thing...try a google search for "reef keeping 101". This is a good reference for beginers or people who want to fine tune thier basic knowledge. Id give you the website link, but Im not allowed.
HTH...Welcome and enjoy.
 

real

New Member
Wow Shrkbait,
that helps a lot! Thank you very much for all of that info, a few of those tips really set me in the right direction. A whole hell of a lot of people have recommended to start with a freshwater tank first to get a general grasp of keeping a fishtank. It seems somewhat logical and I just found an old 29gal. tank in my Dad's garage. I filled it up a few times to make sure that it could still hold water, i'm still in the process of cleaning minor gunk off of it. Once I get my consistant paycheck back, I think I'll set up a freshwater tank first and get a quick hang of that as I save and study for my big saltwater investment. I've been frequenting these boards and several other fish stores and have really fallen in love with the hobby. The more advice I get and the more I see the more I can refine exactly what I want. I'm very greatful for everyones help! I think i'm going to go browse some other sections of the forum!
I can't thank you all enough!
Real
 

ronipa

Member
Hey Real......
If you are looking to buy some gently used second hand stuff for this upcoming 55 G...... let me know......
Roni
ronipa@charter.net
Welcome to the Board and GOOD LUCK with your adventure!
 

real

New Member
Will do, although I'm not sure how much I trust second hand equipment, especially since it is my first tank. You get what you pay for in this hobby, or so i've heard...
I may contact you at later dates though!
 

ronipa

Member
No prob....
I just have an Emp 400 that I hope to be changing to a canister just because I want to get some corals.
I also have a Customsealife 48" 50/50 light that I may change because a retrofit will fit better with my canopy.
There are ZERO problems with these items and I would only be getting rid of them to upgrade (so I can start getting corals)....
No offense taken though,
Roni
PS gently used are items not a bad idea ESPECIALLY when first starting your tank and when having a FOWLR......
THE BEST OF LUCK!
 
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