Scottish_Reefer
New Member
First off here are a few pics of my tank
New member having problems!
- Thread starter Scottish_Reefer
- Start date
First off here are a few pics of my tank
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
So here is the story so far......
My system is 95gal 4'x2'x1.5'
Lighting 2xhydra 52 HD LED's
Bubble magus curve 5 skimmer
2x300w heaters (2 incase one fails)
2 powerheads plus wavemaker (hydor)
Filter socks in sump
ATO
I mix my water using RO/DI water and salt mix
My first fish went into the system in April after a fishless cycle. Also after the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spike and partial water change.
To start withi I had 2 green chromis and a firefish. Everything was great all parameters were in check (phosphates maybe a bit on the high side but no big concern). Any way after a month I seen a pair of clowns at my LFS so I decided to buy them. I drip acclimated Them (same as my other fish and CUC) and they were fine for a few days. After a couple of weeks I ended up with an ich outbreak due to the 2 clowns fighting. The fire fish was in pretty bad shape and I thought if I try to catch him it would just stress him out more. I ended up setting up a hospital tank and put my smaller clown in it as he was covered in ich also and I wanted to stop the aggression in the tank so that hopefully my firefish would be ok. He wasn't! A couple of days later he was dead.
So I done my research and decided to treat my fish with copper. I pulled them all and put them in the hospital tank and started dosing. I was checking my copper and ammonia levels in this tank every day. I was doing daily part water changes and doing everything by the book. The smaller clown died after a week (I never thought he would make it)
So I finished my copper treatment and removed the copper from the water through water changes. Again everything was fine I was changing about 20% or my water every day (I read to keep my DT fish free for 8 weeks so that it would be ich free). Then 5 weeks in my smaller blue chromis died. It was weird because neither chromis had ich. Then on week 7 my second chromis died without any signs of infection all. Yesterday was the day my clown was put back into my DT. He had been acting strange the last couple of days (mainly on the floor of the tank) but he always perked up at feeding time. I drip acclimated him for 4hrs (longer than I usually do) tested the water against my tank water then put him in. He went straight to the bottom of the tank. I then fed the tank and agiain he went for food.
I woke up this morning and seen a cluster of crabs and snails and knew exactly what had happened.
I really don't know what is going on. Do you think they could have had an internal parasite that copper wouldn't kill? I know the ich was the issue for the firefish and smaller clown but I have no idea for the other 3.
Sorry for he essay but I wanted to give as much detail as I could.
Thanks for any reply
My system is 95gal 4'x2'x1.5'
Lighting 2xhydra 52 HD LED's
Bubble magus curve 5 skimmer
2x300w heaters (2 incase one fails)
2 powerheads plus wavemaker (hydor)
Filter socks in sump
ATO
I mix my water using RO/DI water and salt mix
My first fish went into the system in April after a fishless cycle. Also after the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spike and partial water change.
To start withi I had 2 green chromis and a firefish. Everything was great all parameters were in check (phosphates maybe a bit on the high side but no big concern). Any way after a month I seen a pair of clowns at my LFS so I decided to buy them. I drip acclimated Them (same as my other fish and CUC) and they were fine for a few days. After a couple of weeks I ended up with an ich outbreak due to the 2 clowns fighting. The fire fish was in pretty bad shape and I thought if I try to catch him it would just stress him out more. I ended up setting up a hospital tank and put my smaller clown in it as he was covered in ich also and I wanted to stop the aggression in the tank so that hopefully my firefish would be ok. He wasn't! A couple of days later he was dead.
So I done my research and decided to treat my fish with copper. I pulled them all and put them in the hospital tank and started dosing. I was checking my copper and ammonia levels in this tank every day. I was doing daily part water changes and doing everything by the book. The smaller clown died after a week (I never thought he would make it)
So I finished my copper treatment and removed the copper from the water through water changes. Again everything was fine I was changing about 20% or my water every day (I read to keep my DT fish free for 8 weeks so that it would be ich free). Then 5 weeks in my smaller blue chromis died. It was weird because neither chromis had ich. Then on week 7 my second chromis died without any signs of infection all. Yesterday was the day my clown was put back into my DT. He had been acting strange the last couple of days (mainly on the floor of the tank) but he always perked up at feeding time. I drip acclimated him for 4hrs (longer than I usually do) tested the water against my tank water then put him in. He went straight to the bottom of the tank. I then fed the tank and agiain he went for food.
I woke up this morning and seen a cluster of crabs and snails and knew exactly what had happened.
I really don't know what is going on. Do you think they could have had an internal parasite that copper wouldn't kill? I know the ich was the issue for the firefish and smaller clown but I have no idea for the other 3.
Sorry for he essay but I wanted to give as much detail as I could.
Thanks for any reply
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
Yes I bought a copper test kit and checked it everyday during the 12 day treatment. I checked again after my water changes to ensure the copper was gone. It was a salifert liquid test kit.
I use a refractometer for salinity and my other test kits (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, ph, calcium and magnesium) are all Red Sea max. I have a salifert alk test kit.
My fish all come from the same place which is an hour away from where I stay. The next closest one is more than double that but I might try there next. I just want to see if I'm missing something. I have 4 coral frags (frogspawn, ricordea, acan and Xenia) and they seem to be doing fine.
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
Also thanks for the reply
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
Yeah well I did quite a bit of research before I started and I seen so much controversy about QT. Anyway I did plan on using a QT but I ordered my tank right before I got my clowns.
I had my first reef tank a few years ago and I had the same issues with fish. I put it down to jumping in two feet first my first time round but it's really disheartening having my first 5 fish die within 3 and a half months. I don't even care about the money I spent on salt or the daily water changes I have just done for 8 weeks. I just want to keep fish alive. I've always had the understanding that coral is harder to keep but I seem to be having more success in that front!
iidylii
Active Member
Yes personally I think your fish just couldn't fight off any diseases they may have had...because if your water parameters are all good there's really no big secret..toss them in and they will do the rest lol...but yes a QT tank is a must...and when u do a QT tank I make sure my water parameters match that in which the water the fish were in from wherever it is they came from...for instance if they are at 1.020 thrn that's what my QT tank is at and I just top it off with salt water until it matches my DT
iidylii
Active Member
I lost a lot of fish when I first started do to dripping them to what my DT was at or at least that is my opinion cuz now like I said I just set my QT up for whatever the store had it at and make sure to test for ammonia and that's really all u can do...and in the past couple years my deaths have dramatically gone down and I'm actually a little shocked when one dies on me
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
Thanks for the reply.
So do you just raise the salinity in your qt gradually over the qt period?
I am defiantly going to qt my next fish. I haven't qt before so can I just use water from a water change out my DT for the QT? I take it it will be daily water changes again to keep ammonia in check or can I put in a piece of LR from my DT for benificial bacteria?
I haven't ran carbon or a copper remover from the tank I was treating in so not sure if I would need to do that first? The tank was running for 6 weeks after the carbon war removed through water changes.
iidylii
Active Member
Here is what I personally do...I have a 5 gallon QT tank...a 10 or 20 gallon is preferred because of course your water volume is more and ammonia is likely to creep up slower if it does...anyways, yes I use my DT water to fill that but I leave enough room to dilute it with fresh water in case wherever I get my fish from comes with lower salinity levels...I then just keep topping off the tank with my DT water which I'll then slowly bring up your QT salinity...I also personally put in a good size chunk of LR in order to help keep ammonia lvls in check...but yeah all I use is a 5-20 gallon tank, a air bubbler and a heater and that's it...observe for 2,3,4 weeks depending on what u believe is long enough for QT and then toss em in the DT
iidylii
Active Member
That to
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
Ok I have a sponge filter, air stone and heater I bought when I set up the hospital tank. Will the sponges be ok to use or do you think because I've been using copper I should just use new sponges to be safe? I am maybe going to go to the other fish store on Sunday. I have a chunk of LR in my sump so I will just put that in for now.
Sounds like a qt wouldn't be as much work as a ht. thank you guys for all your info. Can never get enough info in this hobby.
I was wondering as well. Can the ich parasite host on a fish even if the fish is healthy and unstressed? i am just asking as would it not be possible for a fish to have ich but not show any visible signs while in the qt then further down the line have an outbreak if there was stress in the tank?
Sounds like a qt wouldn't be as much work as a ht. thank you guys for all your info. Can never get enough info in this hobby.
I was wondering as well. Can the ich parasite host on a fish even if the fish is healthy and unstressed? i am just asking as would it not be possible for a fish to have ich but not show any visible signs while in the qt then further down the line have an outbreak if there was stress in the tank?
lmforbis
Well-Known Member
Ich can live on any fish sometimes it isn't even seen because it is in the gills. Once it is in your tank the only way to get rid of it is to leave the tank fishless until the parasite dies off. Currently 76 days is recommended for ich. Once the tank is ich free, to keep it that way you must QT all fish and in theory everything wet that goes into your tank. Personally I only QT fish but I do a full 4 weeks. I haven't lost any fish that made it through QT in a long time.
Contrary to common belief not all tanks have ich. It has to be introduced. That introduction can be eliminated with strict QT protocols.
Contrary to common belief not all tanks have ich. It has to be introduced. That introduction can be eliminated with strict QT protocols.
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
Yeah I did read about the fishless tank although I read a 7-8 week fallow period as when the parasite falls off the fish it can take up to 28 days to hatch and the survive up to 28 days without a fish host once the hatch. I done the 8 weeks and hen put my clown back in. The clowns was ich free after the copper treatment. Do you reccomend I leave the tank fishless for another 20 days?
I'm just struggling to get my head around that even though you qt fish ich could still be brought into the system right? Like you said if the fish has the ich in its gills and it's not spotted? am I right in saying there is no treatment done in the qt unless signs of infection show?
I'm just struggling to get my head around that even though you qt fish ich could still be brought into the system right? Like you said if the fish has the ich in its gills and it's not spotted? am I right in saying there is no treatment done in the qt unless signs of infection show?
lmforbis
Well-Known Member
Once the clown went in the clock starts over. What kind of copper did you use, chelated or cupramine. Was the copper test kit appropriate for that kind of copper. Chelated copper you need the API test kit and cupramine you mead the Seachem or another that measures cupramine. Often if a less than therapeutic dose of copper was used (at the fish store or during treatment) there are no signs of the disease for a while.
The current belief is 76 days based on reports of at least one strain that have been able to survive longer as cysts. The QT period is to observe the fish. There are behavioral signs as well as the white spots they won't necessarily all be visible at the same time. If the gills are infested it will cause the fish to suffocate eventually. Close observation is very important, not just how they look but how they behave. Marine velvet is a similar appearing disease that could also have been at play and there are other diseases as well
Some people treat fish in QT with copper even without signs of disease. I treat. With prazipro for worms while mine are in QT as well as follow some more complex protocols to prevent the introduction of ich. I also am very picky about where I buy my fish.
The current belief is 76 days based on reports of at least one strain that have been able to survive longer as cysts. The QT period is to observe the fish. There are behavioral signs as well as the white spots they won't necessarily all be visible at the same time. If the gills are infested it will cause the fish to suffocate eventually. Close observation is very important, not just how they look but how they behave. Marine velvet is a similar appearing disease that could also have been at play and there are other diseases as well
Some people treat fish in QT with copper even without signs of disease. I treat. With prazipro for worms while mine are in QT as well as follow some more complex protocols to prevent the introduction of ich. I also am very picky about where I buy my fish.
Scottish_Reefer
New Member
I used a copper sulphate (I think) it was the only copper treatment my fish store had and I read that it was either copper or hyposalinity to cure ich. I can remember the name but I went to 3 different stores and this was the only copper treatment. I will get the name when I'm home from work.
I used a salifert copper test kit though.
Ok so I would have to do 76 day period again? Even though the clown had ich and after the copper treatment there was no more sign of ich? The clown was back in my tank for around 12 hours and I found him dead and took him out. There were still no signs of ich on him.
I'm pretty sure the copper treatment I got said that it can be used for a 24hr copper bath when qting fish. Do u recommend this at the beginning of qt or at the end if I was going to do this? Obviously I can't leave LR in the qt when I put the copper in as it will kill all the benificial bacteria and ammonia will spike. Could I do the copper bath then run some carbon then put the LR in?
I used a salifert copper test kit though.
Ok so I would have to do 76 day period again? Even though the clown had ich and after the copper treatment there was no more sign of ich? The clown was back in my tank for around 12 hours and I found him dead and took him out. There were still no signs of ich on him.
I'm pretty sure the copper treatment I got said that it can be used for a 24hr copper bath when qting fish. Do u recommend this at the beginning of qt or at the end if I was going to do this? Obviously I can't leave LR in the qt when I put the copper in as it will kill all the benificial bacteria and ammonia will spike. Could I do the copper bath then run some carbon then put the LR in?