new Sump/refugium questions

J

jstdv8

Guest
So I have my refugium glass all set up and ready to plumb and add the goodies but I ahve a few questions.
1.) once everything is plumbed should I just open the valve from teh tank down and turn on the pump. This scares me becasue I can see alot of stuff flying around due to a sudden water movement.
2.) does it matter what chamber my skimmer goes in? and do i want the outlet to the skimmer to come back into the same tank?
3.) When people say crushed coral does it go by another name at the LFS? I have yet to see anything wet or dry that says crushed coral on it. Will it come in a dry or wet bag?
4.) I want to grow pods in my fuge so it looks like I want to get some egg crate for the bottom of the middle chamber and put small chunks of LR on top of it and shome cheato in there too. Is there any other plants i should be using along with the cheato.
5.) what are the advantages and dissadvantages of mud Vs. sand for the middle section
6.) when people grow pods in thier fuge how do they feed a mandarin or a wrasse? Do you just let misc pods find thier way into the fuge outlet pump and they get shot into the tank or should I also be taking some out by hand to feed as well?
7.) should I be running water in a circular motion through the fuge without connecting it to the display tank for a while or just set up everything and let er rip?
Thanks :)
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Supertank,
Thanks for the post, that does answer some of my questions.
However the articale was written for a brand new tank with a brand new sump and letting everything go at the same time.
I would like to use LR from my display tank for the sump as well as water from my display tank for the water in the sump and add mixed RO water for the rest to the display tank and let it mix so it would be like a large water change. The only thing that will be new would be the live sand or mud and the cheato. everything else will be from a tank that allready has the cycle completed and good perameters.
So, im a little worried about the flow of water when I start the siphon adn the sump pump mixing up all sorts of goodies and dumping them into the display tank. I dont know if the baffles will prevent this or if maybe it doesnt even matter. I will most likely not have any fish in the display tank as I only have 1 now and I intend to sell him and start a reef. however I will have 1 piece of coral (xenia)and a small clean up crew.
 
supertank

supertank

Member
I went down to my LFS yesterday, and took a look at the sump setup for his show tank. I also picked his brain a little, and thought I would share some with you. You and I are both in the same boat.
I was told that as far as the flow, just make sure you have a ball valve on the return line at minimum. He suggested that a valve be placed in line on both the feed and the return lines for best results. This allows for tweeking of the flow in order to keep the proper level in the main tank, and elliminate over flowing.
As far as being like a large water change, that will be fine, according to my LFS guy. In fact, that's what he sugested in the first place.
Unfortunately I forgot to ask him about the Mud, but as far as NEW live sand, we should be okay. Just monitor water params daily for a week or so just to make sure there are no spikes. Do water changes as necessary. The macro algea will help alot with this.
He also mentioned on more thing to elliminate any fear of another cycle. I never heard of this before, but it makes sense. If your show tank is self sustaining without a sump right now, then just cycle the sump on its own. Here's how he said to do it. Just fill the sump to the proper level, and add all your goodies. Then just feed the return water back to the first stage of your sump, and let it run for a while like that for a while and monitoring params. Once everything looks good, then just shoot your return line back to the show tank, and let the overflow start doing it's thing. Maybe some of the pros on this forum will chime in and help us out a little.
Hope this helps a little. Do me a favor, and let me know how it works out for you. Right now, I have my sump built, but I am waiting until all Christmas shopping is done before I buy any of the internal goodies, and pull the trigger on the whole setup.
 
E

eric b 125

Guest
you dont want a ball-valve on your drain lines unless you would want it for maintenance reasons. you shouldnt use it to restrict the flow of your drain. you control the flow through the sump and tank with a ball valve on the return line.
 
mkroher

mkroher

Member

Originally Posted by Supertank
http:///forum/post/3176443
I went down to my LFS yesterday, and took a look at the sump setup for his show tank. I also picked his brain a little, and thought I would share some with you. You and I are both in the same boat.
I was told that as far as the flow, just make sure you have a ball valve on the return line at minimum. He suggested that a valve be placed in line on both the feed and the return lines for best results. This allows for tweeking of the flow in order to keep the proper level in the main tank, and elliminate over flowing. WHAT?!!!
As far as being like a large water change, that will be fine, according to my LFS guy. In fact, that's what he sugested in the first place.
Unfortunately I forgot to ask him about the Mud, but as far as NEW live sand, we should be okay. Just monitor water params daily for a week or so just to make sure there are no spikes. Do water changes as necessary. The macro algea will help alot with this.
He also mentioned on more thing to elliminate any fear of another cycle. I never heard of this before, but it makes sense. If your show tank is self sustaining without a sump right now, then just cycle the sump on its own. Here's how he said to do it. Just fill the sump to the proper level, and add all your goodies. Then just feed the return water back to the first stage of your sump, and let it run for a while like that for a while and monitoring params. Once everything looks good, then just shoot your return line back to the show tank, and let the overflow start doing it's thing. Huh? Maybe some of the pros on this forum will chime in and help us out a little.
Hope this helps a little. Do me a favor, and let me know how it works out for you. Right now, I have my sump built, but I am waiting until all Christmas shopping is done before I buy any of the internal goodies, and pull the trigger on the whole setup.
I would suggest not accepting any more advice from that LFS.
Do not put a ball value on your overflow pipe. It should be straight down without ANY restrictions. The tank will always remain proper level due to the overflow box. It will only overflow if the water coming INTO the tank excedes the water EXITING the tank, so you may have a ball valve on the return pump line to throttle back the rate of flow going back into the tank. You should also consider a check valve on the return line to prevent back siphon.
Cycle the sump? huh? Why would you want to cycle the sump? it's just water.
 
supertank

supertank

Member
Okay, I understand what you are talking about as far as not having a valve on the feed line. That makes sense.
However, my sump, and I believe the original poster's sump, will have Live Sand, Rock, and Macro Algea. It won't be just water. That's why cycling the sump/fuge made sense to me. Am I off base on this one?
 
supertank

supertank

Member
I am relatively new to reef keeping, so maybe I have my terminology wrong, but I believe I am looking at setting up a Fuge / Sump. I think the original poster of this thread is as well.
So here is the question again. Is cycling a Fuge seperate from the main tank a good idea or not.
I Googled "Sump" and below is one of the pictures that popped up. Could someone please set me straight on the terminology. There are some things that I would change on the design below, but it basically has what I am looking for. i.e. live rock, sand, and Macro Algea, and a skimmer
By the way Jstdv8, I don't mean to steal your thread. I hope this info here is useful to you as well.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
Not stealing, good info. I went and talked to one of the reefers here in Anchorage too since my original post since no one replied except you.
He said that he just starts his siphon and lets it go and since im using all materials from my existing tank (LR, water) except for the plants and the sand that he doesnt expect there to be any spikes and the baffles will take care of the possible flow of mud/sand at start up so that it doesnt get kicked up and into the pump and go up into the display.
So pretty much just let it rip. he also showed me how to hook up an automatic top off in the pump chamber which will be really nice.
I forgot to ask about the mud or sand too. I think i'll just use sand since that seems to be the common thing to do and its readily available at the store.
I was originally concerned with not ebing able to feed the mandarin and eventually a six line wrasse, but after talking to this guy he showed me the pod population he has and its incredible. I'll bet if you dried up his sump I'd have a full meal of pods for myself there LOL. and some of them are quite huge. I dont see them ever running out of food with the refugium up. Ive also planted pods in my display tank since I dont have anything but a lionfish thats going to the LFS but he doesnt eat the pods so they are finally growing big enough I can see them on the glass now which is pretty exciting. kinda scary buying a jar of microscopic creatures that you dont even know are alive or not, but mine are getting big and quite plentifull in only 2-3 weeks.
I still didnt really get an answer on the crushed coral. but in noticed quite a few other pictured and sumps of LFS's and they dont have anything but sand and a few LR in the middle chamber with the plants and thiers seems to be doing great. One store has a 500gal, 250gal and 3 150g all set up this way and his water looks awesome and his fish seem very happy.
I have all the overflows, pump tank and some plumbing so I jsut need to adjust it to fit the height of my tank and I think im going to be good to go as soon as my tank gets put in the wall here in the next week or so.
I'll keep you posted.
thank you for checking, that was cool
 
mkroher

mkroher

Member
Originally Posted by Supertank
http:///forum/post/3176875
Okay, I understand what you are talking about as far as not having a valve on the feed line. That makes sense.
However, my sump, and I believe the original poster's sump, will have Live Sand, Rock, and Macro Algea. It won't be just water. That's why cycling the sump/fuge made sense to me. Am I off base on this one?
If it is *cured* live rock, you don't have to worry about a cycle. A cycle would happen when you have die-off, and the decay is releasing ammonia.
Where are you getting the live sand from? A bag at the store? I've never used that stuff, but to me and others, it might be viewed as a bag of dead stuff, which might cause an ammonia spike. If you can get live sand from a friend, that's a different scenario. I don't have experience with "live sand" from a store, so don't take my word for it. Hopefully someone else will chime in regarding that.
 
J

jstdv8

Guest
yes I was planning on getting a bag of wet sand from the LFS. its only going to be about 2"x12"x18" , Id take it from my display tank, but I think the bed I have in there is pretty marginal as it is.
 
mkroher

mkroher

Member
Originally Posted by Jstdv8
http:///forum/post/3176975
yes I was planning on getting a bag of wet sand from the LFS. its only going to be about 2"x12"x18" , Id take it from my display tank, but I think the bed I have in there is pretty marginal as it is.
save your money and use regular sand. it will be become "live" over time anyways.
 
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