New tank and new problems..please help! (long post)

jeff903

jeff903

Member
Hi,
OK here goes. I have had this new tank for about 3 weeks up and running. Let me go down the line. I have a 46 gallon bowed tank, crushed coral substrate, about 55lbs of live rock, 2 damsels for cycling purposes, and a fluval 304 canister filter and an air wall in the corner with a whisper air pump. I'm not sure of the lighting because the guy at the lfs just ripped it off of another tank that was for sale and it doesn't really say anything on it. When I bought this stuff from the lfs I didn't think I was going to have a reef tank but instead fwolr. I have seen these tanks and saw how beautiful it is. Now, I don't have powerhead or and undergravel filter or anything. I read a few posts down that canister filters are not good for marine tanks. Is that true or just someone's opinion. Please tell me that's not true!! Also, I was going to get an undergravel filter but the guy at the lfs said they are good but after about a year or so they get clogged and can't be cleaned and also told me not to get live sand because it gets sucked up into whatever filter you have and will eventually clog it. It's not too late, I don't think, to change anything. I have another tank lying around that can be used for any changes that I might need to do for now. Anyone please help. Also I think I have gotten a bad test kit or something because it has read the same ph and ammonia from 2 weeks ago until this day. Another key point is that I had about 30 lbs of cured live rock in there from about day 2 of the tank and put in about 25 lbs of uncured live rock bought from swf.com about a week ago and everything seems fine, but like I said I haven't gotten any new readings. Everything seems fine. Should I do anything as far as substrate or a powerhead not hooked up to anything for coral reasons or addtl filtration? The lfs also said a protein skimmer was not necessary for my size tank. Thank You very much for helping me out...as you can see I know nothing and am at the mercy of *****. Jeff
[ August 28, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff903 ]
 
cosmosbasement

cosmosbasement

Member
Hey friend-Well first thing is don't ask the people at ***** for help. I don't know, just don't think they know much except to make money. Well let's see where should we start:
1) Your filter-If you're going to go reef a canister may not be your best idea. Reasoning is because they do produce a lot nitrates. A lot of particles get caught up in the pads and media and produce a lot of 'trates. You might just want to ex that whole idea of a canister unless you're going to be changing the media a lot. Some people keep crabon in a canister and use it for about 48 hours or 72 hours to "polish" the water. That way it won't be a waste for you to have gotten one.
2) Protein Skimmer-I'd get one. One of the best investments I got. There have been recent debates about the use of skimmers in the reef hobbie. I took the median route. I have a 55 gal reef and bought a skimmer that rates at 30 gallon tanks. That way it won't be able to get all the trace elements that people are saying protein skimmers do take out. That's really up to you.
3) With really good LR and a skimmer you may not even need another filter. As for the air wall, I would start to think about getting rid of that. In long term the bubbles produced in salt water are very saline and stick around a lot longer then freshwater. In a while you could have a whole top of your tank with bubbles floating around. Get a powerhead to move the water. Works better plus your corals will love.
4) The substrate for reef tanks these days people are recommending sand. There's a great product called Nature's Ocean reef sand. Comes in 10, 20 and 40 pound bags. You can get away with the crushed coral but the sand is better.
5) Lights-a whole different issue. I'll leave you with that info for a bit. A lot to swallow I'm sure. Let us know if we could help any further or need any clarification.
peace
doug
(geesh, my fingers are tired!)
 
jeff903

jeff903

Member
Thanks Doug. Let me get this....so if I wanted to keep the fluval I would have to change the media like every 2 to 3 days?? Wow!! Also, do you think (or does anyone) that I could just put some live sand on top of the cc that I have in there now? And the powerhead, any recomendations on how powerful I need that to be for the 46 bowed? I am gonna go to the lfs in about an hour or so. Thanks
[ August 28, 2001: Message edited by: Jeff903 ]
 
dmh

dmh

Member
If it was me, I would do the following:
- ditch the canister. just adds a further complicating factor you dont need
- get a skimmer, probably something along the lines of a Prizm; cheap and effective
- get 2 or 3 smaller powerheads. Maybe a couple Rio 400 or 600s, or something similar
- crushed coral is fine, live sand is better. I have crushed coral at the moment, and no problems. You have to do partial water changes more often, but it is simpler. Don't get it too deep, maybe 1.5 to 2 inches. Live sand would be better, and I'll switch eventually, but either way will work.
*** these are just my opinions, and like other things, everyone has their own and they are all different. Read alot and decide for yourself.
 
burnnspy

burnnspy

Active Member
The canister should go and the lighting will be insufficient for reef tanks, I'll bet.
Check out my website for more detained info in the Reef Basics section.
BurnNSpy
 
cosmosbasement

cosmosbasement

Member
Hey-Yeah you can put the sand on top but in no time the sand will start creeping to the bottom and your cc will be on top eventuealy. If money is no object and you still have time rip that cc out and put a couple 20 pound bags of Natures Ocean in there. I mean, cc will work but in the long run you could have a big time job on your hands if you're not constantly vacuuming. The reason why sand is better (a deep sand bed of 3-5 inches) is that it cuts down on the Nitrates and you really don't have do much to it. No vacuuming or anything. The critters that come in on your live rock do the job for you. Plus, I think it looks nicer. Your biggest investment is going to be the lights and you really should skimp out on them. Get your tank up and running for a couple of weeks, save some cash and get some nice lights. The canister-No, the media doesn't have to be changed every 2 or 3 days some people only use canisters 2 or 3 days out of 2 or 3 weeks to polich up the water a little bit. It will become a Nitrate factory in no time at all. Plus, if you get the NAture's Ocean Live sand it will cut down on cycling time big time!! I do think that your powerhead question was answered, just a little leary about the rio's. My opinoin.
peace
doug
 
cosmosbasement

cosmosbasement

Member
Ooops-note to sharks-can you change my "should skimp out on lights" to SHOULDN'T SKIMP OUT ON LIGHTS! Ha ha, it's 3:30 and after lunch at work, I'm exhausted and missed a couple of letters. Okay, back to sleep at my desk.
later gators
doug
 
fat_ed

fat_ed

Member
OK, Jeff, I'm going to assume you've got the money to spend to properly set up a reef tank. If so, this is a great opportunity to start off right:
1) Buy a good book or two. I recommend Martin Moe's Beginner to Breeder, Robert Fenner's The Conscientous Marine Aquarist, and Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman.
2) As others have suggested, ditch the crushed coral and purhase enough live sand to build at least a 3-4" sand bed. Nature's Ocean and Caribsea both make excellent live sand. This works out to about a pound of sand per gallon, depending on the dimensions of yr tank.
3) What are you going to do for water? Tap water (even treated for chlorine) will not work for a reef in most cases. Consider either purchasing RO (reverse-osmosis) water from your pet store/WalMart-type establishment, or buying an RO unit. I have a Kent Marine unit which I like just fine.
4) Don't ditch the cannister as of yet, although you may want to consider ditching the bio media therein. The cannister will still prove useful for gross mechanical filtration, turning over the water, and for hooking up a UV sterilizer at a later date if you so choose.
5) Consider purchasing a hang-on skimmer for that size tank. CPR and Remora are two logical choices that come to mind. Purchasing and/or building an algae refugium is also something to consider.
6) Allow your tank to cycle using the damsels and live rock. Salifert makes the best test kits (esp. for calcium), but there are several other satisfactory test kits out there. I use the Red Sea kit for nitrates, nitrites and ammonia. By finish cycling, I mean zero ammonia and nitrites. With any luck your nitrates should also be around zero. Do a 15-20% water change.
7) Consider purchasing a detrivore or microfauna kit to seed your sand bed.
8) Wait about 2 weeks for your detrivores to start reproducing. At this point you should have a nice diatom and/or other microalgae bloom. Now is the time to add a clean-up crew and watch the algae disappear.
9) During this time you will need to solve your lighting problem. Do some research into various metal halide/VHO/and power compact kits. It will likely take you at least a week to pour through the available information and reach a decision based on yr own needs/desires. Consider building a hood.
Once you've reached a decision, order and install the lights.
10) If you're going to go reef, you will also need to tackle the calcium/alkalinity issue. Kalkwasser, two-part supplements and a calcium reactor are yr three options. More research, more decisions.
As you can see, this is not a simple or cheap hobby. But if you do it right, the results will be just amazing. I can think of no other hobby where you are an artist, scientist, and god over this mini-world you have created.
Good luck.
 
dburr

dburr

Active Member
Jeff903
Hi, I was just wondering where in CT you are from. Maybe I could hook you up with LFS's.
DBurr
 
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