New Tank setup advice

[englewood jack]

I have a 90 Gallon (48x18x24) tank that was set up as a freshwater tank and I would like to set it up as a saltwater tank. Unfortunately I do not have the money to buy all the LR that I need to support the tank all at once. I have the following equipment:
90 Gallon tank
Rena Filstar 3
Magnum HOB (smaller)
2 powerheads
2 heaters
1 25 watt current UV sterilizer
I want to set this tank up as a FOWLR. I was going to buy 70 lbs of Aragamax Sand and start with some LR/dead rock. My question is, with the equipment I currently own, how much LR will I need to just start the tank with a small clean up crew and a couple fish (clown, gobys...)? Any help would be appreciated.

 

[fishygurl]

you could add just a single piece of rock but most people recommend to get 1-2 pounds of rock per gallon, it is a pain and more work to do if you dont add all the rock before the cuc and fish

 

[kellenr]

Originally Posted by Englewood Jack
http:///forum/post/2663389
I have a 90 Gallon (48x18x24) tank that was set up as a freshwater tank and I would like to set it up as a saltwater tank. Unfortunately I do not have the money to buy all the LR that I need to support the tank all at once. I have the following equipment:
90 Gallon tank
Rena Filstar 3
Magnum HOB (smaller)
2 powerheads
2 heaters
1 25 watt current UV sterilizer
I want to set this tank up as a FOWLR. I was going to buy 70 lbs of Aragamax Sand and start with some LR/dead rock. My question is, with the equipment I currently own, how much LR will I need to just start the tank with a small clean up crew and a couple fish (clown, gobys...)? Any help would be appreciated.
Even though you have mechanical filtration the Live Rock is still a vital part of the system. Most of your filtration should be biological filtration (i.e. live sand, live rock, nitrifying bacteria buildup, etc.). With bio-filtration your tank will be much more stable and able to 'attack' sudden spikes in ammonia and keep nitrates low.
What you're really looking for here is "surface area". Surface area for good bacteria to grow and as much of it exposed in direct contact with the water as possible. Think about this: The surface area of your filter pad on your filter is ok but nothing huge right. If you took it apart and laid it all out flat on a surface how much space would it take up? Not much more than '1foot x 1foot' max probably right.
Now think of this. Imagine all that surface area of the live rock, not just the outer face of the rock, but all the porous surface around the outside & inside of it. And then all the live sand. Imagine if you could 'peel' off the surface area of the rock (pores and all) and lay them flat side-by-side. Then take every grain of sand and put them flat one next to the other. How big would that be? HUGE right, probably 10's of feet. All that surface area is a breeding ground for good bacteria. With all this good bacteria buildup there's almost no chance it can be overrun by pollutants and toxins. This stabilizes the whole tank environment.
The live rock acts as a 'jump start' as well. Lots of good bacteria is already present on the rock and therefore starts being put to work right away in the tank.
As for your tank... Well 70lbs of live sand is going to probably be a little under sufficient for a 90gallon tank. You can get away with it but 90lbs would probably be the least I would recommend. If you're going to skimp on the live rock I would say absolutely no less than half the tank size in pounds of rock (i.e. >45lbs of live rock). You REALLY want to go 'at least' 1lb. per 1gal. So that would obviously be 90lbs of LR. I know its tough thinking about the cost but unfortunately mother nature doesn't make replication cheap.
What type of lighting do you have for this tank? You obviously won't need a lot of your gonna keep a FOWLR. But you do need something sufficient enough to support live growth on your rock and sand bed. It's important to keep the regular light schedule 'on' while your tank is cycling, IMO. This will speed up good growth. No more than 8-10hrs though, anymore you'll start getting algae growth.
And remember, clean up crew is the first to be added, but NOT until your tank is cycled. Meaning NH3=0 and NO2=0. Well thats a start I believe. Remember 'do things slowly' and 'when in doubt, ask first'. Keep us updated. Good luck!

 

[prime311]

I agree with the above aside from the lighting thing. Live Rock and beneficial bacteria don't require any lighting whatsoever. Coraline Algae requires some lighting, but it isn't a requirement.

 

[englewood jack]

Originally Posted by KellenR
http:///forum/post/2663530
I would say absolutely no less than half the tank size in pounds of rock (i.e. >45lbs of live rock). You REALLY want to go 'at least' 1lb. per 1gal.

I was really hoping to start out with some base rock and a small amount of LR and adding more eventually. I was thinking something like 20 LBs to start and then add more to it as well as a protein skimmer. I have heard that some people put LR crumbs (sorry, don't know the correct term) in the Rena Filstar instead of filter media. Also, if I were to seed the sand with a cup or two from an establish tank, about how long might it take to spread through out?

 

[prime311]

You can do base rock with just a little live rock to seed. It might take a little longer, but if you let the tank age/cycle for a month+ then add fish slowly it should be no biggie.

 

[kellenr]

Originally Posted by Englewood Jack
http:///forum/post/2664510
...I have heard that some people put LR crumbs (sorry, don't know the correct term) in the Rena Filstar instead of filter media...
Yeah don't worry, you're talking about 'rubble rock'. The reason they do this, back to what I said earlier, is it allows for more surface area. A huge rock only has the surface area thats around it, and its porous surface. If you break it into smaller rubble sized pieces now you have more surface area exposed that otherwise wouldn't be. You can add that into your tank directly, like behind the rockwork etc.. I would NOT substitute that for your filter media. Your canister filter contains carbon which will be good for your water while your tank is 'young'. The Rena is also a 3-stage filter, meaning it uses mechanical, chemical and biological filtration. You'll want this since your tank isn't going to have sufficient Live Rock in it. Sometimes you'll see 'bio-balls' in filters, same principle as the rubble rock.
Originally Posted by Englewood Jack
http:///forum/post/2664510
...I was really hoping to start out with some base rock and a small amount of LR and adding more eventually. I was thinking something like 20 LBs to start and then add more to it as well as a protein skimmer...
Well to be honest, and I know its hard to hear, but you should use a little more LR than 20lbs. One thing you'll find out in this hobby is it's far better to do things right the first time, then to try to take shortcuts and find out why later ($$$). I would seriously try to use a minimum of 40-45lbs of LR, that will be half, then you can use base rock as the other half if you'd like. Using base rock though has some disadvantages. You'll have to 'cure' it. LR that you buy locally you can just drop right in and it goes to work for you. Base rock will need to be 'cured'. Since your tank is new this can be done in the tank but will take some time before it starts working as a filtration device. Basically, if you went out today and purchased 90lbs of LR and 90lbs of LS your tank would be at the same stage tomorrow as it will be in 6-8weeks+ if you use half LR and half BR, (bio-filtration wise). My 30g tank never cycled. I used 50lbs of LR & 40lbs of LS in the beginning, never showed a trace of ammonia. The less LR you use, the longer it's going to take for the base rock to acquire the same filtration capabilities as the LR. Another benefit is most LR already has coralline algae growing on it and all kinds of goodies. Your base rock will also take a long time to accumulate the same amount of stuff on it as the LR.
Originally Posted by Englewood Jack
http:///forum/post/2664510
/>...Also, if I were to seed the sand with a cup or two from an establish tank, about how long might it take to spread through out?
Well same thing pretty much goes for here. 2 little cups of LS in 90lbs of dead sand is like dropping a lemon seed into a glass of water and waiting for lemonade. I don't mean to sound sarcastic at all but just want to get the theory across to you. It'll take a 'long' time for all the sand to become as effective as it could be and to reach its full potential. The less LS you use, the longer the 'dead sand' is going to take to become beneficial in filtration and good gas exchange. I would recommend buying at least half (45lbs in your case) of LS and using the other half as dead sand, if you don't want to go with all LS. Put the dead sand across the bottom first, then pour the LS ontop and across the dead sand. Then you can use your finger and poke and stir little holes throughout the sand bed to help promote the crossover of bacteria. Even using this method will take several months before all the sand becomes 'live'.
Using all the recommended ways will help your tank cycle quicker and properly and help it maintain stability once you start adding live aquatic life. If you try to skimp on stuff your tank will take longer to cycle and not be able to handle sudden bio-load changes well, ....as in adding fish. Hope this helps, I know new tank setups are expensive trust me, if all these people could figure out an easier/cheaper way of doing things I'm sure it would of already been done a long time ago. Keep your patience, it'll pay off!

Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2663601
I agree with the above aside from the lighting thing. Live Rock and beneficial bacteria don't require any lighting whatsoever. Coraline Algae requires some lighting, but it isn't a requirement.
Yeah I guess you could have a black tank. But wouldn't you want some light on it?

 

[englewood jack]

Thank you very much for all the advice. I think I will count my pennies and take back a few more bottles (live in michigan) and try to get as much LR and LS as I can. Like you said, do it right the first time and save money in the long run. You guys are great!! Thanks again!