New Tank Suggestions

[mommafish]

Hey all! I have now researched so much I don't know what to think anymore. I know I want to start with a 55 gal. I want to start with a clownfish and a cleaner shrimp. I want live rock and would like to have something colorful growing in the aquarium.
I want the hood to be on the tank, not suspended from the ceiling due to small children and inquisitive cocker spaniel. I would like for the hood to have day and night lighting as late at night is when I like to watch my fish (I have two freshwater aquariums).
I am so confused as to filtration methods I don't know where to begin. My lfs has a filter/skimmer in one model that she recommends, but I haven't seen anything like that discussed here.
Also, I had planned on having sand with the LR, but I bought the "Complete Book of the Marine Aquarium" by Vincent B. Hargreaves and he says it is terrible to have sand unless you have an undergravel filter.
What would be your recommendations for a BASIC set-up to start with? I can't afford to buy everything all at once (Have about $600 to start) so would like to know a minimum start up while still "doing it right" and things I can add later on. I am prepared to take it very slow, buying tank and stand now, hood and lamps possibly next month and buying live rock and filling it the month after, etc...

 

[infalable]

Hey Momma, I am not the expert here, but your situation is just like mine was a few months ago. I started with $600 as well. I bought a 46 gal bow and lighting (192 flor and actinic because I want a reef). I also bought a few small items, salt etc.. That was about $500 total. Once I was ready for the water I mixed it up and ordered my lr and ls. That was another $250. That gave me another month or so to let the water cycle and not have to buy much. I did buy a filter to get the beneifical organisms to grow and a few test kits. Then I added other things as necessary and have taken my time to fit my budget. Hope this helps a bit. Again the experts here can help better than I. Just wanted to let you know we all go through the same thing. By doing all the research first you are off to a great start. Good luck.

 

[mommafish]

So do you have an undergravel filter, or do you feel LS is ok without one?

 

[mauldus]

I think most here will tell you that an UGF (Under Gravel Filter) is not necessary with LS and a proportional amount of LR for filtration (1-1.5 lbs per gal). The UGF is commonly seen with a CC (Crushed Coral) substrate because in CC, wastes settle to the bottom and never get processed like they do in a LS bed, therefore an UGF is neccisary to eliminate those wastes before they start decomposing. Now, your sand bed will also need to be nice and thick to harbor the critters that will do the cleanup. Most recommend 4-6".
Correct me if I'm wrong guys.

 

[reefnut]

No, no, no undergravel filter . With LS you will not need one nor should you use one.
Just a thought but you may check the papers to see if some is selling a tank. That's how I got my first reef .

 

[mommafish]

I've been looking in the papers, but no such luck so far. PetSmart has a 55 gal for $100 and a stand for $120.
So, from what I understand from your posts - LS is good without an undergravel filter as long as I have the right "critters". Exactly what are they? Do the come naturally in the live sand or do I have to purchase them?
Also, what about the lighting? Is there a hood that comes with both day and night lighting that will not break my bank account? I looked at a website with moonlites, but they were between 300-500 dollars!

 

[blue dew]

You can use sand without an undergravel filter and live rock to act as your filtration. The live rock has the bacteria in it to reduce biological wastes in the water. The sandbed can be a couple inches deep or you could go for what is called a Deep Sand Bed (DSB) which is fine sugar sized sand, aprroximatly 4-6 inches deep. The sand bed takes awhile to develop the micro-fauna, bacteria, and etc that makes it live. I cup or two of good live sand is normally used to jump start the process and the bacteria.critters from the live rock will add to the sand.
There was a good thread on the pros/cons of DSBs that occured last week, in the Reef Forum, I think. One thing about the DSBs is that it cuts down on the amount of water and live rock you can put in the tank, which can be a big factor in shorter tanks and nano tank set-ups.
Additionally, many people run a skimmer to remove more of the wastes. This can be either a hang-on model or one below the tank if your using a sump.
A couple of powerheads can be used to move your water around for oxygen, etc... One near the surface works well for this.
I have a 30 gallon with 2-3 inches of sand and 37 lbs of live rock and a CPR Backpack 2R skimmer. So far its worked fine. No other filtration. Just remember that setting up the tank and cycling takes time. You can use un-cured live rock which is cheaper to cycle the tank or toss in a couple raw shrimp. I used pretty much cured live rock with a couple shrimp and it worked great.
Finally, I like your choices and inhabitants. I have two percula clowns and 2 cleaner shrimp in mine.

 

[mommafish]

Thanks for the explanation of the sand - it helps alot.
So what about the lights? Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[birdy]

As far as lighting goes, if you are planning on a FOWLR and no corals then you do not need big expensive lights, A simple fixture with two bulbs that sit on the tank are fine (I would get good bulbs though a 10k daylight and a 03 actinic would look nice). If you want to keep corals that is a whole other story and will cost you a lot of money ( this of course is one part that can be upgraded later). As far as a light at night, I would do a web search on aquarium moonlights.
One other note, I am not familiar with the book you mentioned, you should look at the print date and if it was written before the mid to late nineties then it is probably very out of date, there are some books I would highly recommend, like, The New Saltwater Aquarium by Michael S. Paletta. And be sure you take what your LFS says with a grain of salt most are not very informed of current techniques. About the filter/skimmer combos, it is probably a skilter and it is not worth the plastic it is made out of. If you have enough LR and LS and a good skimmer then that is all the filtration you need to start, later you may want to add a refugium.

 

[mommafish]

So, if I have the LR, LR, & a good skimmer I don't need anything else for a FOWLR? There will be enough water movement?
thanks again - this board is so much help!

 

[shari2shop]

I, too, have a 55 gallon (with hood & light) that I'm wanting to set up as a saltwater tank. I want to do fish with live sand and live rock(FOWLSLR).
So is it correct that in addition to the live sand and rock all I need to start off with is a GOOD/great skimmer????
I have been holding off on starting my cycle because I keep reading all these posts with all these pumps, filters, slums and other things that I feel I must first research.
So, Is it possible to go ahead, set my tank up, add live sand, water, hook up a skimmer and drop in a few raw shrimp, and start my cylce????? Then after my cycle I can add Live Rock and a clean up crew??? Or have I missed something???
Thank for the info!!
Shari

 

[birdy]

you will also need at least two powerheads for water circulation, you can also run hob power filters or a cannister filter if you want so that you can run carbon or a phosphate sponge. The other thing I would like to mention is that with this type of filtration you will need to keep your bioload on the lighter side. If want want a more heavily stocked tank you should look into wet/dry filters or a sump/refugium.

 

[lesleybird]

Hi, I don't know what all the talk is about needing power heads... I don' use any.....I have a tiny 40 gallon mainly fish but recently added some brain corals and mushrooms after purchasing power compact lights two months ago. My filtration is a rena filstar under the stand cannister filter that has two sponges, carbon type media and a floss type filter pad in it (it's a really nice product, and simple to clean and use, quiet!). The flow rate is 250 gallons per hour. I have a Marineland biowheel hooked up to the return.
As I have said in some earlier post, I really love the fact that Marineland started to sell the biowheels alone that can be hooked up on the return for almost any brand of under the tank cannester filters. This way you can have the benefit of a wet/dry biofilter. I really don't like the Marineland cannister filters...had bad luck with them and think the design is poor. The biowheel pro 60 is what I bought for about 32 dollars on line....It has to biowheels connected to use on the return from a cannister....I only had room on the back of my tank for the use of one which is easily done if you order a special little elbow piece. I also have a Seaclone 100 skimmer hanging on the back of the tank. I love this skimmer because it can usually be found if you search on line for 60 to 70 dollars and is very very simple to use. When you first set up the skimmer it may take a couple of days to start to produce foam, so be patient.
Oh yes, the powerheads....I don't use any. I get enough circulation and aireation from the filter and skimmer. What I would do is set up your filter and skimmer and see if that is enough circulation. If it is not, then you buy an extra powerhead, not before. In a tank with fish a skimmer alone is not enough as you need some type of media for mechanical filtration to remove the exdra debris from fish food and excriment.
Good luck, Lesley

 

[lesleybird]

Typo above...The bio wheel pro 60 comes with two wheels that clamp on to the back of the tank. Lesley

 

[lesa]

2 of my friends have the skilter and they are pleased with them.
I would suggest at least 2 powerheads. On the ls try and find some southdown it is a lot cheaper. Check at lowes, home depot and some walmarts have it also.
Good luck and remember PATIENCE is the key to a healthy sw tank

 

[birdy]

The reason for powerheads in the tank is that you put them lower in the tank, your filter will just move the water on the top level of the tank, you want the water to circulate through the rocks and over the sandbed (not so much to move the sand though) this will keep your tank from having dead spots that food and detrius will settle in (this can cause problems like algae blooms and decaying areas). The main reason a lot of us do not use cannister or filters like that is that you have to be diligent with cleaning the media out or you will have high nitrate problems (not such a big deal if you have fish but not the best thing in the world to have).

 

[lesleybird]

Ok, if you do not use cannister filters, how do you remove the debris floating in the water? I use a cannister filter and clean it every two weeks. My water quality is good. Lesley

 

[mommafish]

Um, so all a powerhead does is move water around? No filtration involved? Does the powerhead itself go in the aquarium or some sort of tube out of it?
Sorry for so many questions - there is just so much more equipment involved for SW vs. FW.

 

[sinner's girl]

ph goes in the tank and moves water around. fish (at least mine) don't like water that sits stills, they like movement. No filtration involved, right.
ask all the question you want, that's why we're here (that and some of us don't want to work or don't have a life).
I have a 55gl and don't have a skimmer, we have a hang on filter with bio wheels.
"you will also need at least two powerheads for water circulation"
we only have one, the filter provides good water cirulation on the other side of the tank.
"how do you remove the debris floating in the water" I'm going to assume either my hang on filter removes it, or it falls to the bottom and my clean up crew gets it. but we don't have a canister and have great water.
good luck and welcome

 

[mommafish]

I'm getting so psyched! I cleaned out the area where my 55 gal is going today and got my guppy tank moved with no problems. I hope to go and buy the tank, stand & equip Friday!