New tank with dead angel

saltn00b

saltn00b

Active Member
:confused:
hi everyone this is my first post
anyway, just set up my first saltwater tank last week. its a 75 gal. our first fish was a juvenile emperor angel. then my roomy come home with a flame angel (aka, The Liger ) they both did there own thing and didnt fight. i was worried about the warnings i have been reading about combining angels. but then, this morning the pretty flame angel was dead. was this just from stress and normal loss of fish? or was it also becuase it was in there with the emp?
side note: can i put in anemone for my clowns or do angels and crabs (soon to be added) eat them?
side note 2: can i put in a puffer with this type of set up?
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member

Originally posted by saltn00b
:confused:
hi everyone this is my first post
anyway, just set up my first saltwater tank last week. its a 75 gal. our first fish was a juvenile emperor angel. then my roomy come home with a flame angel (aka, The Liger ) they both did there own thing and didnt fight. i was worried about the warnings i have been reading about combining angels. but then, this morning the pretty flame angel was dead. was this just from stress and normal loss of fish? or was it also becuase it was in there with the emp?
side note: can i put in anemone for my clowns or do angels and crabs (soon to be added) eat them?
side note 2: can i put in a puffer with this type of set up?
I strongly suggest you start a post of your own (or several) so that it can get the attention it deserves. I can tell you from the sound of it your tank has not cycled properly if it s a week old. It should not have any fish, let alone angels, at this age.
PLEASE post a thread of your own, in the New Hobbyists forum, and read the informational thread at the top of that forum. It will get you started. Then, in your post, please include your tank set up, filtration, live rock, how you cycled, and your specific tank parameters including ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and specific gravity so that people can more effectively help you
PLEASE do not add anything else - ESPECIALLY anemones, to this set up (or any other fish!!!). There are lots of lives and money at risk.
:)


[hr]
Viola! - I split the other thread :)
 
jacknjill

jacknjill

Active Member
TAKE THE REMAINING FISH OUT AND TAKE HIM BACK TO THE LFS NOW! you have to cycle your tank first! did you do any research? this isnt like fresh water. it takes about a month before you can even add crabs and snails. anenome need very strong lights.
 
saltn00b

saltn00b

Active Member
thanks for the placement.
it sounded 'fishy' to me as well. but the LFS said that this was the new way to set up tanks. and this way was to use live rock and live sand. 45lbs and 80lbs respectively for my 75g tank. he said it was ok after 3 days or so. we brought him a water sample and he said it was fine. all of the other fish remaining: 1 emperor, 1 raccoon butterfly, and 3 varying types of clown are all doing great and look great. i will add tank specs when i get home.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
Whoa there JacknJill (and others to join)...let's keep this positive, OK? Most people in this hobby NEVER do the research and do not make it to boards like this.
Accentuate the positive...
But I do agree, returning the fish to the store ASAP would be a good place to start, as is getting immediate water quality tests....or telling us that actually the tank cycled properly etc etc and it was misunderstood :) But at this stage, I think taking the fish back is a priority.

[hr]
Just read post -
Unfortunately, your LFS was misleading you. I must ask, how much will they be giving you as a refund for your flame angel? They are getting A LOT of money out of you for fish that do not belong in a new tank. If they only sold you the clowns, that would be one thing....but the angels?!?!?! No way. Not in a week old tank!!
Basically you should have bought the LR, set up the tank, and then challenged the tank with an ammonia source...usually dead shrimp. It is possible with fully cured LR that you will see no ammonia spike. But most see something. If not after a week or so, then maybe adding a pair of clowns would be a reasonable next step. After a few more weeks, another fish....but NOT angels which are delicate and need mature tanks for reasons we can't always measure.
I would personally run very fast from that store.
Anyway, please do not add anything more, especially anemones, to the tank as a lot more research needs to be done first. This is a sloooowwww hobby, and patience is critical. Your tank, IMO, is at a stocking level you would find in a tank many months old.
 
jacknjill

jacknjill

Active Member
do not listen to your lfs. they just want to make money off of you. your levels were fine, because the cycle has not yet started. first your ammonia will spike then drop, your nitrites will spike then drop, then your nitrates will spike and you do a water change to bring them down
 
jacknjill

jacknjill

Active Member

Originally posted by saltn00b
all of the other fish remaining: 1 emperor, 1 raccoon butterfly, and 3 varying types of clown are all doing great and look great. .
do you have 3 different types of clowns in your tank? you can only have 1 speceis of clowns or they will all fight and kill each other
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
IMO - the emperor should not be in a 75g at all. I would say the same for the raccoon B'fly.
What sort of clowns are they?
 
saltn00b

saltn00b

Active Member
ok update:
i went to another LFS and got the real scoop. this guy is a marine biologist and built the place that i went to in the first place. in my time telling him my horror story, a wild life officer came in and did some shopping and 2 people who also got burned by that jackass in the other store came in...any way i got my water tested and bought my own kit. he said the water is better than he had feared, and it seemed that the tank had actually gone through a mini cycling. the levels were all ok but the Ph. he gave me a buffer i am adding right now. the guy even said he would give me credit for all my fish i wanna return but said they will be ok if i want to keep them. just get rid of 2 of the clowns. he also gave me some brine shrimp cubes so the butterfly could eat and change it up for everyone i guess.
but then there is my emp juvy. he grazes all day, but i have almost never seen him eat the flakes or shrimp. he is, however very interested in all the commotion of feeding time and is out and curious. he will swim along with a piece of food and get close enough to kiss it, but he doesnt eat it. the new LFS guy suggested wetting flakes on a rock , letting it dry then putting the rock back in the tank so he "grazes" the flakes, gets a tasting for it then wont care if its floating or not. i tried this once today, and the flakes all came right off LOL.
and then, just now, i noticed the emps color is a little faded and has dull translucent white spots...is this what i think it is????? the unmentionable??? the terrible???? ich??????????????????? i can take a snap shot and put it on here if it helps diagnose.
 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
Hard to tell without a pic but it sounds like your angel is stressed as they often get bleached out looking areas when stressed. Post a pic if you can.
 
saltn00b

saltn00b

Active Member
ok heres the pics.
take a look at the tailfin, there is a lil bit of possible nibbling? might it be clowns?
anyway, back to the matter at hand, its hard to see but the very light bleaching or whiteness is very close to the tailfin and more visible to closer to the dorsal.


 
scubadoo

scubadoo

Active Member
It does not look like an ich problem to me. I do not see the bleached out areas. Looks like someone has been picking...keep an eye on it.
Does not appear to be changing colors yet.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
I am glad that you have found a new LFS.
FWIW, however, please note that brine is very nutritionally poor, and not a suitable diet for any fish long term. At the very least, it should be supplemented with zoe, selcon or similar.
There are some frozen formulations that have a mix of foods that would be better choices. There is also an "angel diet" that has various sponge extracts etc that are good for larger angels.
Also be very wary of using buffer in a tank to raise pH unless you are aware of both your alkalinity and calcium readings. There are a number of factors that go into the pH equation, and you may be looking into the wrong one by simply buffering. Buffering actually raises alkalinity - not pH, and without following your readings, you could end up in some trouble.
 
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