New to DIY sumps/refugiums...converting wet/dry?

[michelle l]

Hi all....
I have a 125 gallon FOWLR tank. I run a wet/dry that is rated for a 175 gallon tank, so it is the larger version, but right now I'm unsure of it's demensions. I have been doing a lot of reading about converting it to a sump/refugium, but I am still clueless as to how to go about doing this. So, here are a few of my questions:
1. Should I consider buying another empty tank and placing it underneath the 125 to set up a sump/refugium? I don't think I could really fit anything underneath it without emptying the tank and moving it out from the wall (which I'm not willing to do) because of the way the stand is built. So this leads me to wonder if my wet/dry, if converted, would be big enough for my 125 gal.
2. If I can convert the wet/dry, how does that work? I will post a photo of the wet/dry to show it's chambers, etc.
3. I have read about using a rubbermaid tub as a refugium. How do I attach that to the converted wet/dry? Or does it work as it's own entity?
4. What is the actual purpose of the sump, and the purpose of the refugium? (Sorry, I know these are kindergarten questions, but many posts I have read kind of talk beyond basic knowledge.)
Thank you all!!!

 

[stingrayjs]

Proboly your best option is to have a seperate refugium and leave your other wet/dry alone. All you need is a small tank and some glass for the baffels. There are many pictures and plains people have made on the site you can follow. After you have made it, you will just need an overflow box if you don't already have one, a return pump and micro alge to put in the refrigum, along with some livesand or miracle mud, and some liverock to start.

 

[michelle l]

Thanks.....!
I have been reading a lot about removing the bio balls from the wet/dry and replacing them with live rock rubble. What is your opinion on that?
If I did that, where would I put the rubble...in the same trickle area as the bio balls or in the bottom where it would be covered with water? (Sorry if these questions are dumb or repeats...like I said, I'm clueless and my LFS seems to be too LOL!)

 

[bob a.]

Originally Posted by Michelle L
Hi all....
I have a 125 gallon FOWLR tank. I run a wet/dry that is rated for a 175 gallon tank, so it is the larger version, but right now I'm unsure of it's demensions. I have been doing a lot of reading about converting it to a sump/refugium, but I am still clueless as to how to go about doing this. So, here are a few of my questions:
1. Should I consider buying another empty tank and placing it underneath the 125 to set up a sump/refugium? I don't think I could really fit anything underneath it without emptying the tank and moving it out from the wall (which I'm not willing to do) because of the way the stand is built. So this leads me to wonder if my wet/dry, if converted, would be big enough for my 125 gal.
You could if it would fit in the stand. I can understand if you dont want to empty the tank to do it. You could convert the wet/dry, but if the pix you attached is it, it may not be all that big.
2. If I can convert the wet/dry, how does that work? I will post a photo of the wet/dry to show it's chambers, etc.
3. I have read about using a rubbermaid tub as a refugium. How do I attach that to the converted wet/dry? Or does it work as it's own entity?
4. What is the actual purpose of the sump, and the purpose of the refugium? (Sorry, I know these are kindergarten questions, but many posts I have read kind of talk beyond basic knowledge.)
The sump is container (rubbermaid or another tank) that holds extra water and provides another out of site place in which to put "Stuff" like skimmers, heaters, pumps. It also helps to increase the amount of water in the whole system Remember, the solution to pollution is dilution... So if you have a 125 and you add a 30 gal sump, now you are up to a 155 or so. A refugium is a tank (could be in the sump) that can hold macro algae and or critters like crabs, snails and all sorts of microfauna. By running a lamp, you can grow the macro algae (like cheato) that provide a home for the critters and also suck up excess nutrients like nitrates and phosphates. When it gets overgrown, you pull out some of the excess and you are now exporting nutrients out of your system.

Thank you all!!!

Bottom line, you can use the wet dry as a sump, but it may not be the greatest container for that purpose. the opinion on wet/drys is mixed, many folks still believe in them but many feel that the filtration needed can be provided with just live rock and a good skimmer (and water changes). Take a look at melevesreef.com and look at some of his sump designs for a better idea. Good Luck.

 

[stingrayjs]

"Thanks.....!
I have been reading a lot about removing the bio balls from the wet/dry and replacing them with live rock rubble. What is your opinion on that?
If I did that, where would I put the rubble...in the same trickle area as the bio balls or in the bottom where it would be covered with water? (Sorry if these questions are dumb or repeats...like I said, I'm clueless and my LFS seems to be too LOL!)"
For mysetup I have a sump/refugium on my tank. In the first section where the intake is located I have bio balls, whihc as you know float. I have foudn they help with breaking up the water when is comes crashing out of the PVC pipe. From there is goes past the bio-balls hits my protein skimmer then to a deep sand bed and threw the first set of baffels. After that is goes into the refugium where I have some liverock, live rock rubble, more livesand, and some microalge growing with a 65k day and a 65k arch light. (I think thats the lights specs

) From there is goes thew a simple mesh screen to stop the small pieces of alge from moving into my return section. 90% of my alge stays put from teh live rocks, but every now and then a small piece want to essacpe so I put the screen in there. In the return section I have a UV sterilizer that only gets tured on when needed, but its there just in case. I havn't had a need to use it on many months. But i know as soon as I get ride of it I will need it! In the return I just have the pumps, which take the water and put it back into my tank. IN the comming month Iplain on adding a top off to the sump/refugium. I am getting a decent amount of evaporation now. I am proboly loosing about 1/2-1gallon ever few days I think. So I finlay broke down and bought a good Kent RO unit. WHich I am going to encorporate in to my top of setup.
I have read there are people that do replace there bio-balls with live rubble in there wet dry filters. But I think they have it so they live rubble is under water at all times. I use the bio-balls maily the help the water move where I want ti, live rubble wouldn't work for me in that situation. But I really think keeping you wet/dry filter the way it is would be best and make or buy a sump/refugium or just make your own refugium, its not that hard of you have some tools.
Hope the info helps. I did go off into some others things while I was writing....

 

[michelle l]

Yes, it helps a lot! Thanks. I think I agree with you...based on what I've read and seen, I don't think my wet/dry would be big enough for a 125 if I converted it, even if I built a separate refugium.
Bob A., I found melevesreef.com last night through some searches, and it's great. It gives me a visual to everything he is talking about. Thank you for the postl!
I am really just trying to get ideas about how I can upgrade my system. Although I haven't encountered any problems so far (knock on wood) and all my fish and inverts are healthy, my tank just seems to look...I dunno...icky. Seems to have too much algae and gunk stuck to the LR. I used to have a skimmer that was incorporated into the wet/dry but it didn't pull anything out, and then the pump died. From that point on I haven't been running a skimmer, so that is my first course of action after Christmas.
Beyond that, I plan to possibly start looking at these options, although I don't plan on running a reef system so I'm not sure exactly how beneficial it would be for me to build a sump/refugium. I may just stick to regular cleanings of the bio-balls. Thanks for helping out!

 

[stingrayjs]

Originally Posted by Michelle L
Yes, it helps a lot! Thanks. I think I agree with you...based on what I've read and seen, I don't think my wet/dry would be big enough for a 125 if I converted it, even if I built a separate refugium.
Sounds like you just need to make a new sump/refrigum then.
Bob A., I found melevesreef.com last night through some searches, and it's great. It gives me a visual to everything he is talking about. Thank you for the postl!
Thats a good site. I have use it before for many ideas.
I am really just trying to get ideas about how I can upgrade my system. Although I haven't encountered any problems so far (knock on wood) and all my fish and inverts are healthy, my tank just seems to look...I dunno...icky. Seems to have too much algae and gunk stuck to the LR. I used to have a skimmer that was incorporated into the wet/dry but it didn't pull anything out, and then the pump died. From that point on I haven't been running a skimmer, so that is my first course of action after Christmas.
Yes difinatly get yourself a good skimmer. Algae and gunk stuck to the LR? It might not be bad. The live rock in my tank is coversed in stuff. Purple coraline, dark purple coraline, and even some green. Not much hair alge my snails, tang, and bleeany take care of that. You might want to think about getting a nice clean up crew. To go along with the new filtration. How old are your lights, they could be the first suspect to odd alge growth. But im guess you have to many nutrients in your tank. When was the last time you checked the water?
Beyond that, I plan to possibly start looking at these options, although I don't plan on running a reef system so I'm not sure exactly how beneficial it would be for me to build a sump/refugium. I may just stick to regular cleanings of the bio-balls. Thanks for helping out!
I went from canister filters to what I have now, and im not going back! Its worth the time of setup. It has been really paying off.

 

[michelle l]

You know, I can't describe the gunk. It's not algae...it almost looks like stuff that has settled after the sand is stirred up. I didn't have the problem until we moved in September, and after that it seemed like all of the dust in the tank settled on the LR, and never went away. I have LOTS of movement in the tank, so I don't think that's the problem. I'll see if I can get a pic of the gunk. My parameters are fine...I keep a pretty close eye on that. But, I'll admit that my test kit is pretty generic!

My lights are about a year old...they are the regular, run-of-the mill lights that come with the hood.

 

[michelle l]

Here's my gunky rock..........it's not as green as these pics make it appear. The stuff is more of a tan color.

 

[bob a.]

Michelle
On your rocks I see some coraline algae but what I think you are describing is either cynobacteria (rusty colored) or it could be diatoms growing. Either way, you are getting an excess of nutrients in the water. Invest in a good skimmer since its your first line of defense in keeping polution down. Stay away from the off brands like jebo and seaclone. Go with something from aquac or euro reef or another well recommended brand. A good skimmer pulls out the waste products before they have a chance to break down and start the ammonia nitrite nitrate cycle. But even with a good skimmer, you will get a build up of nutrients like nitrates and phosphates. Those you deal with through water changes and with removal media that go into a filter. Get your water tested at the lfs or buy the kit and diy. Keep track of the levels. As long as you have no corals, then its pretty easy, you dont have to worry about calcium, alkalinity, etc. Just monitor nitrates, ph, phosphates, specific gravity and you should be good.

 

[michelle l]

Thanks Bob A. I had been asking questions about the best skimmer for my tank on a different thread...I plan on getting one in January. I figured that was the source of my problems, so it's good to know that I was correct!! I think I'm pretty close to deciding which one to go with. :thinking: After that I think my next investment will be an R/O unit. I'm sick of buying water at the store!!!

 

[azocean709]

Originally Posted by Bob A.
Michelle
On your rocks I see some coraline algae but what I think you are describing is either cynobacteria (rusty colored) or it could be diatoms growing. Either way, you are getting an excess of nutrients in the water. Invest in a good skimmer since its your first line of defense in keeping polution down. Stay away from the off brands like jebo and seaclone. Go with something from aquac or euro reef or another well recommended brand. A good skimmer pulls out the waste products before they have a chance to break down and start the ammonia nitrite nitrate cycle. But even with a good skimmer, you will get a build up of nutrients like nitrates and phosphates. Those you deal with through water changes and with removal media that go into a filter. Get your water tested at the lfs or buy the kit and diy. Keep track of the levels. As long as you have no corals, then its pretty easy, you dont have to worry about calcium, alkalinity, etc. Just monitor nitrates, ph, phosphates, specific gravity and you should be good.
i dissagree with the "don't have to worry about calcium alkalinity, ect...." Calcium and Alk work together with your overall PH. if one is out of balance, they throw something else off.JMO.