New to salt, a freshwater veteran, needs wisdom of this group

lazarus

lazarus

Member
Took the plunge over the new year and started up my 29 gal. Added damsels after 3 weeks, then a clown. All is well, but like many, I remain confused and would love some advice:
1. The LFS and book i bought said since my tank is FO i do not need live sand. Have read many threads which seem to contradict. Other than fish, i wish to add some shrimp, stars and other inverts, including feather dusters and shrooms. So, live sand or no live sand?
2. I really want a tang but LFS says 29 gal is too small. any advice on what tangs can hang here? how many fish total can this tank support? what durable favorites are good for beginners?
3. I dont see any visible algae but after nearly 4 weeks i assume it is there? is it too early to add stars and snails?
4. My tests indicate all systems go but i never saw a peak in ammonia. did i miss it? should i do something else to be certain cycling is complete, or to expedite? i saw a post suggesting just put a frozen shrimp in the tank. the fish love it and the remains promote cycling?
Man o man this is nothing like freshwater, but i am determined to succeed! your input most appreciated!
 
lion_crazz

lion_crazz

Active Member
Originally Posted by LAZARUS
Took the plunge over the new year and started up my 29 gal. Added damsels after 3 weeks, then a clown. All is well, but like many, I remain confused and would love some advice:
1. The LFS and book i bought said since my tank is FO i do not need live sand. Have read many threads which seem to contradict. Other than fish, i wish to add some shrimp, stars and other inverts, including feather dusters and shrooms. So, live sand or no live sand?
2. I really want a tang but LFS says 29 gal is too small. any advice on what tangs can hang here? how many fish total can this tank support? what durable favorites are good for beginners?
3. I dont see any visible algae but after nearly 4 weeks i assume it is there? is it too early to add stars and snails?
4. My tests indicate all systems go but i never saw a peak in ammonia. did i miss it? should i do something else to be certain cycling is complete, or to expedite? i saw a post suggesting just put a frozen shrimp in the tank. the fish love it and the remains promote cycling?
Man o man this is nothing like freshwater, but i am determined to succeed! your input most appreciated!
1. You don't need live sand for any of those things. I would just get aragonite. It is easier to maintain since you are new at saltwater, but it does not trap like crushed coral. You will need live rock however. I would recommend about 30-40 lbs. of live rock.
2. The lfs was right about the tank being too small for a tang. No tang will be happy in a 29. You want to look toward getting clownfish, gobies, bliennes, firefish, basslets, chromis, and other small fish.
3. It is too early to add stars, but you could add some snails and hermit crabs as long as your ammonia and nitrite are 0. Do you have a test kit?
4. Since you do already have fish, you do not want another ammonia cycle. I would probably recommend taking the damsels out, as they will get too aggressive. It was probably a little too early to add the clown as well. Usually, you would put your live rock or dead shrimp in the tank before any live stock goes in so it creates an ammonia spike to cycle your tank. Now that you have fish, you do not want another ammonia spike. What is your ammonia, nitrite, nitrates, and pH reading?
 
wax32

wax32

Active Member
¡Hola! Welcome to the boards!

1. Your sand will become live if you have liverock in the tank.
2. no tangs, 3 or 4 fish that STAY SMALL - some damsels, gobies, blennies
3. snails no, stars yes
4. the dead shrimp should be put into your tank before fish. If you spike your ammonia at this point it will harm your fish.
 
jjlittle

jjlittle

Member
1)You can go either way on live sand I prefer use of it for it would give you a heads start with live bacteria which is critical
2)Sorry LFS is right for a change no Tang they need much much larger tank. Different from fresh water you cant have as many fish I would say 3-4 smaller fish you maybe can stretch and do 5 but would say watch your water closely and do very regular water changes. I recommend clowns , a fire fish , royal gamma, or bangi cardnal many to choose from.
3)not to early to add snails & crabs I add mine 1 st day would wait on start till you are sure your tank will be staying stable tehy need a very stable tank
4)You could have missed the cycle, hard to tell everyt ank cycles different. Yes waste promotes cycle many do teh shrimp method rather then live damcels teh live sand helps tank to cycle faster to
Well have fun enjoy the ride and just always remember to take it slow and reseach as much as you can prior to buying anything
 
lazarus

lazarus

Member
Thanks for this...
1. My ammonia, nitrate and nitrite are all low, PH is in ideal range (so is salinity).
2. You suggest taking out damsels and clown....and do what with them?
3. Also you suggest adding a different sand....this is like starting over! I have a crushed coral in there right now. Would adding LR only be a solution?
4. I appreciate the comment about the second ammonia spike....but would prefer to forge ahead without starting over!
 
hagfish

hagfish

Active Member
You won't like this, but IMO you are already about maxed out on how many fish you can have in a 29. Especially since the damsels will be pretty aggressive. They would attack and possibly kill most small fish that you could otherwise put in. A general guideline on how many fish to keep is 1" of fish per 4 gallons of water. It's really dependent on the fish, but this gives you a guideline and the fish you have fit the guideline pretty well. And don't consider the size of the fish now (in case they're all babies). Find out the max size on all fish you buy or want to buy and use that in your equation.
As for tangs, they are out of the question in a 29 gallon tank. Some feel a 55 gallon is big enough for a yellow tang, or maybe kole and scopas tangs. But really, the bigger the better with any tang because they like a lot of swimming room.
As for inverts, you can get some shrimp, hermit crabs, snails, maybe an emerald crab, and some brittle stars perhaps. When you talk about starfish, I bet you aren't thinking brittle star though. IMO, there is no sea star (like linkias and fromias) that will make it in a 29 gallon tank for more than maybe 6 months. As for mushrooms, they will need increased light over the typical normal output flourecent light most tanks come with. You'll want at least look into PC (power compact) lights. VHO and metal halide lights are better even.
 
jjlittle

jjlittle

Member
stick with your CC and just vaccum it I would also suggest LR for it is a natural filter and would help tank you dont want a cycle with fish teh ammonia kills fish.You can most likely return teh damcels to teh LFS for credit
 
lazarus

lazarus

Member
all the info has been great -- although you guys need to come together on snails vs stars -- but now i feel i am in great shape to forge ahead. thanks ALOT!
 
lion_crazz

lion_crazz

Active Member
What kind of stars were you thinking? I mean, some of the hardier ones, like birttles, serperns, and chocolate chips would be fine, but linkias and sand sifters and some of the more difficult ones should be avoided.
If you do want mushrooms though, forget about adding chocolate chips, as they will eat your mushrooms.
 
jacknjill

jacknjill

Active Member
I would reccomend:
1) taking out the crushed coral and adding aragonite sand
2) adding around 30 pounds of liverock, give or take a few pounds
3) taking out the damsels (they get really mean later on) but leave the clown in
4)you can add BOTH snails and stars (hardy stars like brittle stars and serpent stars, maybe even a chocolate chip. but be careful, choco chips arent reef safe and will eat corals)
5) i would also reccomend adding some shrimp as inverts. once you make sure your tank is cycled you could add a couple of cleaner shrimp, peppermint shrimp, or fire shrimp
6) for fish, no tang, but i would add another clown so you will havea pair.
7) some other good fish are gobies, blennies, chromis, etc, you could probably have around 4 small fish
8) what kind of filtration do you have?
 
gordie9

gordie9

Member
jeez, the guy asks a few questions and he gets all these opinions!?!? Just kidding, thats why this board is great.....good luck Lazarus, I'm just a newb too and I'm sure my tank would be done if not for this board
 
lion_crazz

lion_crazz

Active Member
Originally Posted by hagfish
I've actually heard chocolate chips are pretty difficult as well. Especially in a small tank.
hm, I have never heard that.
 
farmboy

farmboy

Active Member
Hey and WELCOME!
I think you can forge ahead.
Changing the CC to sand (if you choose) can be done a little at a time so as not to disrupt the bacteria. If you have no rock in there, this may be the biggest home for them.
Upgrading lighting is easy but $$$!
Adding live rock from an established tank, like LFS, should not cause problems(spike)-mail order rock probably will. You may need more water movement-filters + power heads.
Tangs have been discussed. . . .
:happyfish
You have found a BIG load of . . . .information in these boards. The folks here are pretty sharp. (THey let me post sometimes, too. Just to be nice
)
 
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