New to site - aquarium problem

[vickilee]

Hi: I glad I found you guys. I'm a little upset. I have an 80 gal saltwalter aquarium, fish only, and everything has been great.
I have a service come once a month to do maitnenace and last Friday they came and since then my Nasotang has stopped eating and my chemistries are messed up. Nitrite 0.2, PH 7.8, Amonia .50. I know the answer is to do a small water change, but that's when this all started. I've tried adding buffer to my stump and few teaspoon fulls but it hasn't worked.
I also understand sometimes doing nothing is the best for saltwater tanks.
I don't know what to do - do something or not??????
When does it really get to be a problem when is fish is not eating? Now long do I let my Naso go before it too late!!!!
Help!

 

[slothy]

well u need to get the ph and am. back to norm (8.2 and 0)
do a 15-20 gall water change.. ... what does your people taking care of your tank say about this?
also can your give some more info about your tank and the critters in it

 

[almarktool]

vickie,
welcome to the board glad you found us ,
is this a service u have used in the past without any trouble?
what is in your tank ? do u have LR or LS , did they perhaps disturb the substrate? and cause a mini cycle? i assume nothing has died before this and u are not missing anything, Ph is way low and the fact that u have a amonia and trite reading is not good at all sounds like mini cycle,
please get back to us with more info:
when set up?
live rock?
sand bed or crushed coral ?
what fish u have in the tank ?
regular service company been there before ?
perhaps same company but different people ?
what type of filters are you running ?

 

[vickilee]

Hi all:
Thank you soooooooooo much for your swift replies.
It is a fish only tank. I have my tang, a puffer, a small angel, and several other small one inch fish.
I have been using this service for four months at least and this
has not happened before.
I called them yesterday and they said to add the PH buffer, which I did and it didn't seem to make a difference and I called today and they said if it hasn't worked itself back to normal by tomorrow they will come and do a small water change. I do like these guys, but as usual they are busy and as you probably know you can call ten differnet people and get ten different answers. I really wish I could figure some of these things out myself, but I'm at a loss.
I have had my fish tank set up for 8 months. I have a wet dry filter and uv filter.
This never happened before and I've never lost any fish. I do try to watch them carefully and if they stop eating or anything I freak.
What is a mini cycle? How did it happen and how do I avoid this happening again.
I did put in some snails this weekend to help with an algie problem I've been fighting and they put in a 50/50 bulb to help that. Those are the only two changes. Oh! I did get a tiny pajama cardinal fish this weekend too with the snails.
Vicki

 

[broomer5]

Hi Vicki
As I'm sure you know, our tanks eventually become somewhat balanced - meaning - the number of fish to the number of bacteria that process the waste/ammonia/nitrite/nitrate.
When everything is in balance - we have very little problems.
Many times though, we either add something new, or make a change - and it temporarily throws the tank out of balance.
It's possible that by adding the additional fish, combined with the tank maintenance that was done - that you're in this imbalanced stage again.
When new tanks are set up - it takes time for the bacteria to build up to enough numbers in your wet/dry and substrate. Once these bacteria populations have become established - it's safe to add another fish. Then you must wait it out again until more bacteria grow to higher levels - to provide enough biofiltration.
This intial set up waiting period is necessary because the tank is "cycling".
Cycling refers to the nitrogen cycle - hobbyists refer to this new tank break-in period as cycling.
Again, sometimes when the tank balance is disrupted, like adding more fish, or in your case - adding another fish AND maybe having it cleaned - the tank will go through what is often called a "mini-cycle" or just a recycle.
I'll guess that you have crushed coral substrate on the bottom, the cleaning folks vacuumed this bottom material to get rid of wastes, they possibly disrupted the bacteria, and by adding the fish within the same timeframe - the tank's not able to process the wastes.
They may have also cleaned off the bacteria on the bioballs or filtermedia you had - also possibly contributing the problem.
Did they add any other chemicals that you are aware of ?
Algae killing chemicals ?
Cyno bacteria killing antibiotics ?
You may want to ask them "specifically" what maintenance they did - especially in regards to chemical treatments ?
I would suggest several smaller water changes right now - 15-20%
Then repeat again in a few days.
This will dilute some of the toxins - and hopefully your biofiltration will build itself back up to process the current/future load of the tank.

 

[vickilee]

Thanks Boomer I will do the water change and another one on Friday.
I appreciate your explaination of the mini cycle. It did make sense.
I just checked my levels again and the PH has gone up a bit to 8, but the amonia is still at 0.50.
Thanks, all!
Vicki

 

[vickilee]

Boomer:
One more thing! I know this sounds absolutely stupid so if your
rolling your eyes at me I understand, but.........
if the water change caused the mini cycle how does doing another
water change help it?????? I told you it was stupid?
Oh I saw your website and your tank is great!
Vicki

 

[almarktool]

vickie,
as broomer was saying it is possible that if they vacummed the crushed coral too much that would cause the mini-cycle,
also under your tank where your wet/dry filter is you will see a compartment with perhaps blue bio balls that also is where your bacteria grows, did u notice if they took them out to clean them or not ?
water changes won't cause the mini cycle so u are fine to do your 15-20 % and then again on friday,

 

[vickilee]

Mark:
No, they did not clean the bio balls or add any other chemicals to the tank when they cleaned it. They just did a regular water
change.
I did buy those snails and add a small pajama cardinal fish the day after the water change if that makes a difference????
I'm mixing my water now and I'll do the change as soon as it's right and again on Friday.
I think, monthly water changes haven't been enough. I'm planning on doing a weekly 10% water changes and then when the service comes they can do a more thorough clean and a bigger water change once a month. I hope that sorts things out.
I am really greatful to the message board participants for helping me with this!
Vicki

 

[broomer5]

vickilee
( I didn't roll my eyes )
Question: When this service comes in to do the tank maintenance - do they bring saltwater already mixed with them ?
Or do they mix it right there in your home ?
Many saltmixes contain large amounts of ammonia. Not enough to wipe out a tank - but if too large a water changes is done at once, with saltwater that contains ammonia, and this saltwater is not allowed to mix and aerate overnight - in theory it could cause some problems with a tank.
Also, what have you been using as freshwater ? Tap ? or store bought RO ? or what ???
Lasty question. Did any of the snails you added croak ? die ?

 

[vickilee]

Thanks Boomer for not rolling your eyes at me.
They mixed the water here. They did not bring it premixed.
He did clean the crushed coral real good, as I was having trouble with a messy puffer.
None of the snails died. They are all in their fine and well. The new little pj cardinal I bought with the snails has been hibernating but came out and ate tonight.
I top off the tank with tap water that I put Amquil in. Am I maybe not putting in enough Amquil?
For an 80 gallon tank I do have alot of fish, but it is a fish only tank and thought I could have 1 inch to 3 gallons. I have about 23 inches of fish now. I hope to get another tank and move some when they start growing bigger.
I finally did get the Ph up to 8, but the amonia is still .50 and I know that has to come down. Other then the naso tang everyone else seems to be fine and eating and other then not eating the naso tang is not breathing hard or anything, yet.
I have a wet dry filter and UV filter. Do you think I need a protein filter?
I can't say how much I appreciate everyone sticking with me to help!
Thanks,
V

 

[broomer5]

What ammonia test kit do you use ?
If you indeed have ammonia present - I would not try raising your pH until the ammonia is back down to zero.
High pH and ammonia is double trouble for fish.
The ammonia is far more lethal to the fish at higher pH.
Lower pH and ammonia is less toxic to fish.
Having a high bioload, lots of fish for the given tank size and filter capacity - may put you right there on the edge.
Not a very forgiving situation.
Hopefully the water changes will help some, and the bacteria will "pull" the ammonia down.
Are you testing for nitrites too ?

 

[vickilee]

Did my water change this morning. It did bring my amonia down to about .25, nitrites less then .2 and PH still low at 7.8 to 8.
I use an American Pharmaceutical's amonia test.
Think I should do another water change in a few days or just hold tight and see how it goes.
Naso tang is still not eating though?????

 

[itchy]

Vicki, I to am having a small ammonia problem right now. I think mine is because of my lion and my Huma Huma trigger as they are messy fish. My suggestion is to do a small water change like 10% every other day for several days. This will help lower the ammonia and allow the bioload to catch up and help eliminate the ammonia as well. It has worked for me and after about 5 days my ammonia is now testing at 0 again. I did not have any other spikes as far as nitrites or nitrates probably due to the fact I was doing water changes. My ph is a little low as well but has not caused a problem yet. Now if you read some of the ammonia test they will say that you may still test positive for ammonia but it is a non-toxic form. So read the water conditioner you use and see if it is a Salycitate test and if the two ( test and conditioner) are compatible. I hope all this makes since, but it seems that the water changes are helping as your ammonia was down this time. You will find all kinds of help on here with great advice.
Good Luck,
Robyn