New to the hobby...opinions please...

ksh_cx

Member
Just recently build enough courage to change from fresh water to saltwater .
I have a 55gallon, recieved about 50lbs of live rocks and live sand from a friend. How long will it take for my tank to cycle. Also, is it a over kill to have a over flow filtration(not actual just kinda rigged a wanna be) and a canister filter running at once (planing to do fish only tank) i just figured the more water filter per hour the better. also, have two power heads...
I was thinking about throwing in a few demsels to help with the cycle...also does anyone have any experience with Bio-Spira...i did some research on it and it seems pretty legit...i also added some in there too.
Please give me your opinion...
 

nycbob

Active Member
having a sump wouldnt be an overkill at all. as for cycling, it can take anywhere from 1-3 weeks. skip the damsels, and just add a dead shrimp to cycle the tank. when ammonia and nitrite r at zero, and nitrate below 20, then u r good to go.
 

casper1875

Member
Please don't use damsels to cycle the tank. For one thing they are really hard to remove. What will you do with them when the cycle is complete? Flush them?
On the plus side I like your rocks. Welcome to the saltwater world. There's a lot of really great people here with super advice.
 

rdub62

Member
i have a 90g and i used 3 of the large size bottles of biosphera 2 days later acclimated 4 damsels. they all lived. and everything has been fine since.
 

oceansidefish

Active Member
While the damsels may have lived 2 days is not long enough to stabalize water quality in a new tank. You can still have die off from your rocks and swing your paramaters.
 

nycbob

Active Member
a cleanup crew is used to eat algae and left over food. if ur tank isnt cycle yet or not enough algae is present, the cuc will die. dont add anything live until all of the water parameters r good, as i hv stated above.
 

taznut

Active Member
cycling with damsels is torture, it burns their gills... if you are running the light during the cycle you will probably get an algae problem... i would go with a sump filter instead of canisters (everyone i have head talk about canisters say they need a lot of attention and you have to clean them a lot)...
your tank looks good... what is your planned stock list???
 

ksh_cx

Member
Dont know yet, but i really like the looks of a Pinnatus Batfish.... is that a tough fish to take care of?
 

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by ksh_cx
http:///forum/post/3057922
Dont know yet, but i really like the looks of a bat fish.... is that a tough fish to take care of?
Don't really know anything about them, but you really need to research the fish you want to keep for care, feeding and compatibility
 
T

tiny

Guest
Sorry, but you can't get a Batfish. The minimum size tank a batfish should be in is a 200g tank. Also they are very sensitive fish, so it wouldn't be the best fish to start with.
 

pete159

Member
buy a book on saltwater tanks and read it. Don't expect to learn everything from a few questions in a forum.
if you google "batfish" you could learn everything about them, and if you had some questions then you could make a post here.
it took me 30 seconds to copy and paste this about bat fish
Batfish Aquarium Care
In my experience there are two general reactions when people see a batfish: 1) “That’s the ugliest thing I’ve ever seen.” or 2) “That’s the coolest/cutest thing I’ve ever seen.” With a growing interest in the ornamental aquarium trade for unusual specimens, batfishes may seem to be the perfect fish for those interested in the rare and unusual. However, batfishes are not for everyone as they require specialized care to survive in captivity. The information listed is based solely on my experiences with these fishes. As such, they are my own, may differ from those of others, and by no means are the definitive conclusions of their captive care or biology. However I will state here that I am not liable for any losses, injury, or problems that may occur from your use of this website or the information provided by it. I do welcome any comments or experiences by others as this can only further our understanding of these unique fishes.
Species Encountered in the Trade
In the aquarium trade, only three species of batfish (Ogcocephalus cubifrons, O. nasutus, and O. vespertilio) are likely to be encountered. The first (O. cubifrons) is the most common species in the shallow waters around Florida and the one most commonly taken by trawlers on both sides of Florida’s Coast. It is the species most likely to be encountered in the aquarium trade. O. nasutus is the species that usually arrives in shipments from the Caribbean such as Haiti. The long-nosed batfish arriving in shipments from Brazil is O. vespertilio. It is often mistakenly identified as O. corniger. In addition, I have come across a handful of Halieutaea indica over the course of several years, which were sold to me as pancake batfish, from a saltwater fish wholesaler in Los Angeles.
Aquarium Setup
For starters, these fishes come from habitats with large open areas and very little structure. An aquarium for a batfish should emphasize length/width rather than height. The size of the aquarium needed to house a batfish depends on the species and adult size of the fish. I have found 30 (30"L x 18"W x 12"H) or 40 gallon (36”L x 18”W x 12”H) “breeder” aquariums and 20 (30"L x 12"W x 12"H) or 33 (48"L x 12"W x 12"H) "long" aquariums to be excellent for smaller batfish specimens (e.g. pancake batfish or Ogcocephalus batfish less than 5 inches). For larger specimens of Ogcocephalus batfishes I used tanks ranging from 75 – 120 gallons.
A batfish tank should always be covered and if large individuals are kept, a weighted cover should be used. I have had specimens ranging from small pancake batfish to foot long Ogcocephalus cubifrons jump out of uncovered or lightly covered aquariums or holding tanks. Batfishes are reportedly nocturnal (Combs 1973, Winans 1975, Gibran and Castro 1999, pers. obs.) however I have found that they will readily acclimate to a normal day/night aquarium light cycle under a standard fluorescent bulb. LED “moonlights” may be used to view a batfish at night or to ensure a newly acquired batfish is acclimating properly in an aquarium.
 

pete159

Member
structure and Substrate
Structure such as live rock should be kept to a minimum. This mimics the natural habitat of the batfish and gives the fish the maximum area to move. Too much structure can lead to a problem in smaller aquariums having enough bottom space for the batfish and prey may take refuge in the structure preventing the batfish from capturing them. Hence, a reef tank is not a good choice to house a batfish. I’ve always use sand for substrate in a batfish tank (the typical live sand sold at pet retailers is sufficient).
Filtration and Temperature
Filtration on a batfish aquarium is not complicated. Depending on the size of the aquarium, I used suitably sized power filters or wet/dry filters together with a protein skimmer. Be sure to minimize the amount of fine bubbles from the skimmer entering the aquarium as it can cause gas bubble disease in batfish. I have always kept my batfishes between temperatures of 74-78oF with no problems.
Problems and Diseases
Batfishes often damage their rostrums by constantly swimming or walking into the glass. Placing strips of black plastic at least 6 inches high around the bottom of the tank may reduce or prevent this behavior. Once the batfish has acclimated to the aquarium conditions the black barrier may be removed. In my experience however the black plastic was a permanent feature as most batfish would continue swimming into the glass no matter how long I attempted to acclimate them. I have noticed this behavior only in species of Ogcocephalus batfishes. All pancake batfish I maintained never swam or walked into the glass.
Nearly all batfish encountered in the aquarium trade are captured as bycatch by shrimp trawlers. All the batfish species I studied were also collected in the Gulf of Mexico by trawlers. This method of capture causes great stress and physical damage to the fish. Batfishes often develop bacterial infections in wounds caused by the trawl. Once this occurs, treatment rarely works and the fish usually succumb to the infection. This “batfish rot” was also discussed and described by Schleser (1994). He found that Chloramphenicol worked on the infections. This chemical however is not readily accessible to the typical home aquarist. While collecting batfishes for my research, I found furazone or spectrogram (kanamycin/furazone mix) to be effective in combating and/or preventing infections in newly captured batfishes. I continued to keep collected batfish under this treatment during a month long quarantine process. I would like to emphasize that when collecting live specimens, I was aboard the trawler and immediately placed any live batfishes into medicated holding systems. I was also selective as to which individuals to focus my effort on. By the time a batfish reaches a retail store or the hobbyist, it may be too far gone for any treatment to be effective. I have noticed this aspect in most batfish I obtained from wholesalers/retailers. If possible, try to special order a net/hand caught batfish directly from a collector.
Batfishes are also susceptible to protozoan infections like Cryptocaryon irritans. If not treated immediately, they will quickly succumb to these parasites. I have successfully used copper sulfate or formalin based medication to treat these infections. An important aspect in maintaining batfishes is to minimize stress. This includes minimal disturbance of their aquarium, moving them as little as possible, and maintaining excellent water quality.
During my studies on batfishes I noticed large numbers of parasitic nematode worms in their intestinal tracts. These worms were especially prevalent in larger specimens (over 6 inches) of Ogcocephalus batfishes. Schleser (1994) also noted these worms and suggested de-worming by orally administering the drug fenbendazole. I have tried this procedure with mixed results ranging from success to loss of the specimen. Over the course of my research, I noticed that individual batfish of similar size collected from the same locations at the same time could have varying quantities of intestinal worms. Some were severely infested, but others had few if any worms. However large individuals (6 inches or larger) of Ogcocephalus batfishes were often heavily infested. In contrast, pancake batfish rarely had worms compared to Ogcocephalus batfishes. I no longer de-worm any batfish I collect as I have noticed no difference in their long term survival without the treatment.
 

pete159

Member
Feeding
Feeding batfishes is not terribly difficult, assuming of course a healthy specimen is obtained. Live foods are usually required to initiate feeding. Small batfishes may be fed live mysids, live Hawaiian red shrimp (Halocaridina rubra) or enriched live brine shrimp. Larger individuals may be fed live ghost shrimp. Once the batfish has acclimated to the aquarium it may be trained to take pieces of fresh, raw seafood (shrimp, scallop, squid, or fish). Individual batfish may learn to associate their keeper with food and may walk to the front of the aquarium or perform luring behavior when the aquarist is present. I have only been able to train Ogcocephalus species of batfish to take non-living food on a regular basis. Only one pancake batfish I maintained ever ate non-living food (frozen mysids, fresh dead Hawaiian red shrimp).
even small eels (I have found snake eels in the stomach contents of large batfish). The only fishes I regularly kept with batfishes were similarly sized frogfishes. I also routinely kept similarly sized batfishes of both the same and different species together. While I have kept several individual batfishes together with no apparent compatibility issues, Schleser (1994) reported dominance hierarchies in Ogcocephalus spp. with subordinate individuals failing to do well. That said, I have kept various species of gobies, basslets, dartfishes, seahorses, anthias, jawfishes, and scorpionfishes with appropriately sized batfishes. In many instances however I had to feed the other fishes to satiation before the batfish had a chance at the food.
 

ksh_cx

Member
ok..i understand that cycling usually take about 3-4 weeks to cycle to be safe for fish. mine has been for a week now, i took my water to two different lfs to test my water. They told me that my water is ready for fish. what do you guys think? Should i put in some fish, if so im am going to put in demsels before i move on to more exotic fish.
 

meowzer

Moderator
Do you test the water yourself? If not, you really need to get your own test kit...make sure you have no traces of ammonia, nitrates and such....
Have you gotten any of your cuc yet?
 

ksh_cx

Member
Originally Posted by meowzer
http:///forum/post/3058653
Do you test the water yourself? If not, you really need to get your own test kit...make sure you have no traces of ammonia, nitrates and such....
Have you gotten any of your cuc yet?

I went got my own test kit and everything was zero out. my nitrate is sligtly up. So far i got some snails from a friend.
My gf wanted some fish so i got some demsels. Also, two of the demsels i got looks like it have ich, i went back to lfs and they told me once i put in the tank they can't take back. I dont have a QT, I put them in a one gallon jar so i can treat them, will that be good enough?
 

oceansidefish

Active Member
I am glad you are excited about your new tank. However, I fear that your excitment is taking you a little to fast and will lead to problems. You should have not gotten the damsels, you should never buy a fish with any diseases. You tank is now infected and will only be safe if it sits fishless for 4-6weeks. Additives such as copper into the tank will be deadly for inverts. If you want to keep the damsels QT and HYPO treatment will be the only way to go. If you are patient you will have much better success. I would take the damsels back whether they want them or not and let you tank sit for a month and try again.
 

meowzer

Moderator
Originally Posted by Oceansidefish
http:///forum/post/3059537
I am glad you are excited about your new tank. However, I fear that your excitment is taking you a little to fast and will lead to problems. You should have not gotten the damsels, you should never buy a fish with any diseases. You tank is now infected and will only be safe if it sits fishless for 4-6weeks. Additives such as copper into the tank will be deadly for inverts. If you want to keep the damsels QT and HYPO treatment will be the only way to go. If you are patient you will have much better success. I would take the damsels back whether they want them or not and let you tank sit for a month and try again.
+1...slow down...give the damsels to someone....or like said above take them back..you can't keep them in a jar...
 

crypt keeper

Active Member
You can set up a tank and the first few days the water will be fine. Then one day you will wake up and your trites will be through the roof and ammonia will as well. Then everything dies you placed in the tank.
Those damsels will cause major issues in your tank later on life and will not allow you too fully enjoy your tank.
 
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