Newbie advice to newbies " what is important when testing"

[chappy]

As a newbie I am going to go out on a limb here. We all know that water testing is important. You need good test equipment/ methods ( that can be a thread by itself) I want this simple.
OK your ready to start testing.so what is important?
I remember my first day in paramedic class, the instructor said " air goes in and out, blood goes round and round, anything else is bad". Following this simple logic for us newbies in my humble opinion what I think is important (bad) when testing,and in what order
Ammonia greater than 0
Nitrites greater than 0
PH Under 8.2 or over 8.6
Nitrates greater than 40
Temperture less then 68 or greater then 80
Salinity greater than 1.026
Alkalinity less than 240 ppm, 4.8m/l 13.44dKh
Salinity less then 1.020 reef, 1.010 fish only
Circulation.
I know many out there may disagree but I am gearing this for us newbies to help with the basics before we ask for help. I also hope this will open the topice for more discussion
please be safe and God bless

 

[monsinour]

Well, I stopped testing my water months ago. I didnt see a point in doing it if things never changed. A day after a water change i tested just for grins and giggles.
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20
pH 7.8
Sg 1.0245
alk 8
calc 460
phose 0.25 (but much closer to 0)
This is the exact same readings way back when i made the last regular test over 4 or 5 months ago. I have done all I can to lower phose, raise pH, and eliminate nitrates. Nothing has worked and I have given up. I change my water about every other week and change out 10 gallons in my 56g DT and 16g sump. I would imagine that total water volume is around 60 or so. Testing, while important in the begining, I would not place so high a value on. If you know what to look for in your tank, you can tell when something is wrong. I have to say, this is the longest a peppermint shrimp has lived in my tank. Not sure if it has anything to do with testing, but being a sports nut, i am superstitious.

 

[chappy]

I never argue with sucess, whatever your doing, keep it up

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsinour http:///forum/thread/387274/newbie-advice-to-newbies-what-is-important-when-testing#post_3406356
Well, I stopped testing my water months ago. I didnt see a point in doing it if things never changed. A day after a water change i tested just for grins and giggles.
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 20
pH 7.8
Sg 1.0245
alk 8
calc 460
phose 0.25 (but much closer to 0)
This is the exact same readings way back when i made the last regular test over 4 or 5 months ago. I have done all I can to lower phose, raise pH, and eliminate nitrates. Nothing has worked and I have given up. I change my water about every other week and change out 10 gallons in my 56g DT and 16g sump. I would imagine that total water volume is around 60 or so. Testing, while important in the begining, I would not place so high a value on. If you know what to look for in your tank, you can tell when something is wrong. I have to say, this is the longest a peppermint shrimp has lived in my tank. Not sure if it has anything to do with testing, but being a sports nut, i am superstitious.
LOL....none of us test like we did when setting up a tank...You're right, we know when we look at the tank if something is off.
What time of the day are you testing your PH? I ask just because PH is lowest at lights on, and highest after the lights have been on all day, so just before light out the PH is high.
I use phosphate X or Phosban Pro every once in a blue moon to get rid of phosphates. It is put in the tank from frozen food, even though we rinse it. 0.25 is pretty low and like you said closer to 0. What test kits are you using?

 

[snakeblitz33]

You know, that's pretty good logic, however I wanted to point out a few things.
Each test reading is dependent upon a factor or a few factors.
Initially, you should worry about Ammonia and Nitrites when setting up a new tank. But keep in mind that there is ammonia and nitrite in the system BECAUSE of decaying matter caused by the introduction of dead organisms and organic material from the live rock and sand (and a piece of shrimp if thats the way you are cycling). By the same token, if you have an established tank, and you have an ammonia spike and you can't understand why... then look for a dead, decaying organism or other decaying organic material that is in the tank.
Salinity should be checked every maintenance period or every water change. Keeping a constant salinity keeps the tanks inhabitants from being stressed and the pH balanced.
O2, CO2, pH, Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium are all part of the chemistry of the tank. Each one is dependent on the other. For example, without much O2 in the tank, the pH of the tank drops. O2 can be low in the tank by certain additives such as melafix, or ammonia/nitrate neutralizing chemicals. It can also be low because you have glass tops on the tank and no sump, etc. etc. Your pH can be made constant by the use of a refugium on a timer opposite of your display tanks lights. Alkalinity is important for corals to uptake calcium and magnesium into their tissues. Without a high and constant alkalinity, pH can drop, corals melt away and you will never see all the pretty purple coralline algae on your glass. So you see,... everything is dependent on a specific issue.
Temperature should be kept at a constant too, and your right and wrong about certain temps. For example, some jellyfish require temperatures ranging from 40F to 60F. Some non-photosynthetic tanks need to be kept in the lower 60s to maintain life. Some corals, such as leather corals require temps in the lower 70s while xenia grows best in the 90s. Every tank and every coral and every fish is different. What you as a saltwater aquarist should do is research every purchase, decide what fish and corals you want and make sure they will all survive and thrive within that specific range of temp, salinity, alkalinity, calcium, magnesium, and other factors. Not including lights!
Also, circulation is at the bottom of your list.. .and I don't understand why. Certainly, you should worry about how much circulation your tank has, initially. One of the biggest problems for saltwater novices is cyanobacteria. It's caused by excessive nutrients in the tank, combined with poor water circulation. If you go ahead and buy a powerhead and have at least 10x the volume of your tank flowing per hour then you shouldn't have to worry about dead spots. Bottom line is, circulation is important and will avoid a lot of problems in the future.
This is a really fun and interesting hobby - but you can not give a general blanket answer for everything in this hobby. RESEARCH is key. Do your research and don't assume that everything does well under the generally accepted conditions.

 

[chappy]

Snake; I agree with everything you say, but please remember this is a newbie talking to a newbie. We set up our tanks, and everyone tells us to test, test and don't forget to test. Whenever we ask a question the first thing we are asked is what are your test reads. Other than ammonia, and nitites should be zero, everything is up for discussion. I put some numbers up there that a newbie, like me, can see and try and shoot for. In MHO I believe that trying to reach these numbers will start you on your way to a healthy tank. Yes every rule has its exception, and you are correct about temps. again I said fish only vs a reef tank. The reason I put circulation at the bottom, is not because it is not important but because there is different methods and amounts. I am not sure if turning you tank over 12 vs 13 times an hour will really make that much difference. and like everything else the experts tell us something different. Please I am not trying to make a cook book for this hobby, but a helpful guide.
please be safe and God Bless

 

[flower]

Chappy...every test kit tells you what the magic number is for each test, and they also offer a solution for bad readings and what you can do. Regular water changes is the most important thing to keep everything happy. The numbers of trace elements are replaced, the bad nitrate and ammonia and any other problem is diluted.
SnakeBlitz is correct...we can't give a blanket answer. We ask for more than just test numbers, we ask for tank size, how long has the tank been running, how many power heads, what is the filtration, what kind of lights and how old are the bulbs.??????.... and how is the tank stocked? Our request for information is based on what the problem is, or the question asked.
As for myself...if I'm going to drag out the kits...I'm going to test for everything and write down what the results were in a journal I keep on each tank. The only ones I may not test for are ammonia and nitrites unless I have a problem. Keeping up on water changes takes up most of my efforts concerning my tanks. I feed the critters, (I do a head count on them then) clean the front glass with the mag float....that's about it. However something always comes up to keep me working on the tank...right now I'm battling hair algae in the seahorse tank. Before that I was deep into getting nitrates to 0 in the 90g...winning such battles delights me, and inbetween I add coral, fish or new equipment.

 

[chappy]

Flower; You, like Snake have been doing this for awhile. Your "wet pets" are like your children, you have created this home for them, watched them grow, mature, and you have have learned a lot about what it takes to keep them healthy, I can even guess you guys have even made a few mistakes along the way. You know what makes your tank happy and what makes it not happy.
When I first did this post, I was trying to help with a lot of confusion we newbies run into regarding water quality, and what it means.
Simply speaking, I will go back to my medic days, the first thing the Doc ( snake and flower) wants to know what are the vital signs. pulse 60-80 resp. 16-20. blood sugar 80- 120. etc etc. Yes a lot of people live outside the norms, but if you don't know what the norms are, and you have a patient ( wet pets) that can't tell you whats wrong you need someplace to start.
So now the newbie has a nitrate reading of 60, he may not know whats wrong, but at least he knows it is high, and something needs to be corrected, so he can do the water change (first aid) and then come here and ask the Docs ( you and snake) what else the problem can be.
I never meant this to post to be gospel, but a starting point, for us new kids on the block that are trying to get some basics down. I will always come and ask you, snake, and anyone else for help. but first i have to know i have a problem.

 

[michaeltx]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chappy http:///forum/thread/387274/newbie-advice-to-newbies-what-is-important-when-testing#post_3406337
As a newbie I am going to go out on a limb here. We all know that water testing is important. You need good test equipment/ methods ( that can be a thread by itself) I want this simple.
OK your ready to start testing.so what is important?
I remember my first day in paramedic class, the instructor said " air goes in and out, blood goes round and round, anything else is bad". Following this simple logic for us newbies in my humble opinion what I think is important (bad) when testing,and in what order
Ammonia greater than 0
Nitrites greater than 0
PH Under 8.2 or over 8.6
Nitrates greater than 40
Temperture less then 68 or greater then 80
Salinity greater than 1.026
Alkalinity less than 240 ppm, 4.8m/l 13.44dKh
Salinity less then 1.020 reef, 1.010 fish only
Circulation.
I know many out there may disagree but I am gearing this for us newbies to help with the basics before we ask for help. I also hope this will open the topice for more discussion
please be safe and God bless
the problem I see is that the chart is misleading that you posted. when I first read it I took it you were saying the PH range is anything under 8.2 or 8.6 is acceptable. which should read the margin to shot for is between 8.2 and 8.6. I think it just needs to be worded alittle different and it would be easier to read and less confusing.
the parameters to shoot for are
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
PH between 8.2 and 8.6
Nitrates 0 the lower the better shoot for 0 though
Temp 76-80
Salinity 1.027 or as close as possible
salinity depends on what you have in a tank a fish only system can stand a lower salinity but I prefer as close to the real things as possible. As long as your careful not to introduce parasites into the tank youll be fine at the 1.027 range.
Alkalinity less than 240 ppm, 4.8m/l 13.44dKh someone else will have to weigh in I really dont remember the ideal range.
Circulation. the more the better this is needed for proper gas exchange and to keep nutrients in motion for corals.
these were the ranges that I liked to keep my numbers between
testing also depends on a factors like spanko said they are all intermingled and if one is out of whack they all can be.
JMO
Mike

 

[michaeltx]

I do think you had the right intentions though. I will see if I can find some of the old threads that were focused for the new tank starters.
I just have to find them after about a year or so of dropping on the pages LOL
Mike

 

[chappy]

I did this for newbies, like me, i was looking for a set of vital signs to help others know what some norms should be. As no newbies responded and the only feed back was from the "pros' and it was all negative, i would request that you delete this thread. thank you in advance
Chappy

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by chappy http:///forum/thread/387274/newbie-advice-to-newbies-what-is-important-when-testing#post_3406708
I did this for newbies, like me, i was looking for a set of vital signs to help others know what some norms should be. As no newbies responded and the only feed back was from the "pros' and it was all negative, i would request that you delete this thread. thank you in advance
Chappy
Chappy....newbies read the threads no matter who responds. It's a fish tank and everyone puts what they want in them...if we gave a blanket..this is what it should be answer, then newbies not knowing better would start using boosters and supplements and going crazy trying to match those blanket numbers and maybe kill thier tank. It's also good for newbies to know that each tank is different.
There is no reason to think you didn't contribute and erase your thread.
About when I first started.....there was no web site. I didn't even know I couldn't use test strips. I never tested. Nope, not even at start up. I set up the tank according to a book I had and waited, and waited, and waited....After three months and live rock and sand in place, what I thought were corals growing on the live rock, I added my first fish.
The "coral" on the rock my husband and I were so proud of, I now know were majano. A chocolate starfish ate them...LOL...the LFS said the star was reef safe, we took the star back and demanded the store repay us for the coral it ate but we called it a button polyp. The guy said he never heard of such a coral and wouldn't pay us.
I never lost a single fish, with corals some made it and some didn't. By God's good grace I never had flat worms or some other major problem. I was happy to find this site and talk to others with a SW tank.....I am hanging out in the New Hobbyist section because I really don't know the "reasons" why life exists in my fish tank. I too for the last two years am still just learning. I am not much more than a newbie too.