newbie help please

[pegasus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cav414 http:///t/396155/newbie-help-please/60#post_3532422
Okay when I get the sand will it be okay to store it in a sealed bucket of salt water for a few weeks while I slowly add it? Oh and the diatoms did go away my substrate was very clean looking when I got home this morning

If the sand is wet when you get it, it should be fine in a bucket of salt water. If you can use water from a water change, it may help the beneficial bacteria start reproducing. It would be best if you can keep the water flowing across it, maybe with a low-flow power head or a small pump in another container. You don't want the water to get stagnant. If the sand is dry, it would be okay just to leave it in the bag until it's used up. Just keep the bag sealed so it doesn't absorb moisture from the air.

Good to hear the diatoms have gone away. That tells us that the bacteria is building up in the substrate. Things are looking good.

 

[cav414]

Okay great I will try to get dry sand I don't have an acres pump or power head.
And the diatoms where gone but they came back about 2 hours after I posted that they where gone which doesn't make since to me how can they be gone then show up in almost the same spot in just a couple of hours?
On a more positive note my star polyps have started to grow on a new rock so i'm guessing my system can't be to bad lol

 

[pegasus]

How long had the lights been on when you noticed the diatoms were gone? If the lights had not been on very long, the diatoms were probably dormant and hard to see. Once light hits it, it blooms. You asked about bacteria in your sand earlier. If it was a dry sand, it won't contain beneficial bacteria like wet live sand does. The good part is that your live rocks do contain beneficial bacteria, and this bacteria will spread throughout the sand. You don't have to do anything but sit back and wait for it. It will take a little time, but it will happen naturally. I would also suggest adding enough sand to get a 3-4 inch sand bed. A shallow bed does little as far as filtration goes. It just basically for looks. In the pictures below, you can see the different layers in my sand. The top layer has bacterial stains, tunnels, and Nitrogen bubbles in it. The lower layer (mostly hidden by trim) is barely disturbed, and the oxygen-free bottom is completely undisturbed. The bottom layer is where Nitrates are converted to Nitrogen (bubbles in top pics). The dark spot in the bottom picture is the base of a rock. I had to sink one corner deep to get it positioned like I wanted. Some people don't like to see the tunnels and colors, so they stir the sand by the glass. I want to see it, so I know there's activity going on in there.

 

[cav414]

The lights had been on for about an hr, but it did the same thing today when I turned on the light there is much less now than there was a few days ago
I was finally able to get those pictures so hopefully they can tell more than I can lol

The rock in the first picture looked like that about 4 days ago but it is clean now the 2 rocks under it are like that now.

This rock is the one that I said whatever was on it was turning gray, I don't know how well you can see it in the picture but now it has all turned white. It's original color was brown.

This is a picture of the red that is growing like wild fire on my rock I was told by the previous owner that the purple on the rock was coralline algae so is the red new growth over the top of the old? (it's not slimy)

Okay the first picture is of my rock with star polyps that sits to the left right in front is the brown kinda fuzzy leathery feeling algae (sorry if that's a bad description) it hasn't moved or grown from that spot in a little over a month. However that rock was covered in polyps a month ago and now has lost more than half of them. The second picture is my rock with star polyps that sits next to the other on the right hand side of my tank it still has about 90% of it's polyps but the base has started to change colors from white to a mixture of red, green, and brown. It is also shedding I don't know if that's normal.

Last one I promise this is my sand bed it has a little bit of the colors that yours dose pegasus but very little the spot on the side with the diatoms has a little more color but not much and I haven't noticed any nitrogen bubbles and very little tunnels.
I know i've said it a lot but thanks again for every ones help

 

[pegasus]

I'll try to answer in order, and hope I don't miss anything.

1: The rocks that have diatoms look like fairly new rocks. How long have you had them? Did you clean and cure them before adding them to the tank? The reason I ask is because of the color. Cured rocks can be white initially, but once they mature they become covered in coralline algae. If the rocks were not cured, then they are susceptible to bacteria and diatom bloom. This is all part of the cycling process. It appears your tank is on the tail end of cycling. It should be over soon.
2: Not sure what the gray to white stuff is, but if it's not growing, that's probably a good thing.
3: Pink-to-red-to-purple stuff growing on the rocks is great! It's is definitely coralline algae.
4: Green star polyps are great indicators of water quality. Sudden changes in pH or Alkalinity will cause them to stay retracted. They also benefit from Calcium, even if they don't have skeletons. I may have already asked, but what kind of salt do you use? Do you feed the star polyps? Supplemental feeding is good for them, along with strong lighting and moderate to heavy flow. I feed a 50/50 mixture of Marine Snow and Phytoplankton to my various polyps, palys, gorg, whips, xenia, zoas, etc. about once a week. Any more than that causes an algae bloom. If the colony gets too crowded, it will slough off some of the mat. These pieces can be glue or tied to a rock to start a new colony. If it is shedding because the mat is deteriorating, then it's not a good thing. I can't tell you what causes it, and I lost a little over 50% of my colony a couple of weeks ago. I took the rock out and brushed it down in RO/DI water. A lot of thin small chunks fell of during the scrubbing. It took about a week for them to recover and fully extend, but the surviving colony seems to be thriving again.
5: Your sand is coming along nicely. You've got critters, and bacteria is colonizing well. You may or may not see nitrogen bubbles in your sand. It will depend on how deep the bed is, and how fine the sand grains are. As I mentioned before, you have to have an oxygen free area for anaerobic bacteria to live in... the bacteria that converts Nitrates into harmless Nitrogen. If you plan to mix new sand with your current substrate, I'd recommend fine-grain sand. Sand is graded according to grain size, and .5 mm - 1 mm would be a good size for mixing. Water doesn't have to flow through sand for it to filter nutrients. It works by diffusion... but that's another story altogether.

 

[cav414]

The guy I bought it from dias that everything had been running for a year, but i'm not sure if he cleaned or cured the rocks. I'm not even sure if he knew as much as he said lol. The salt I use is instant ocean sea salt. I don't feed the star polyps the guy I bought it from told me to feed the fish twice a day and the polyps would eat it too (I don't feed that much now thanks to you guys correcting that). I went through and cleaned the system today and it looks much better the brown algae was very difficult to get off but the rocks cleans up good.

As you can see from the middle picture I lost about 70% of my star polyps on one rock but hopefully it will come back. I will get the supplemental food for them as soon as I can.
I checked my levels today also everything was the same except my ammonia is up to 0.1 does this mean the cycle is starting over? Also while cleaning the rock I noticed a little worm looking thing on one it had legs though I hope it's a good thing because I left it on there.

 

[cav414]

Oh and please let me know if I didn't answer all your questions.
Thank you

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cav414 http:///t/396155/newbie-help-please/80#post_3532647
I checked my levels today also everything was the same except my ammonia is up to 0.1 does this mean the cycle is starting over? Also while cleaning the rock I noticed a little worm looking thing on one it had legs though I hope it's a good thing because I left it on there.

Hi,

Just keep an eye on your ammonia to make sure it doesn't climb any higher, if it keeps climbing you may need to do a water change. I would have some change water premixed and ready, just in case. Sometimes new rock isn't as cured as we think. As for the little worm critter with "legs" if it looked like a centipede it could be either a bristle worm (harmless) or the dreaded Bobbit (Eunice) worm.

Here is a site with pictures of the bad worm, see if it matches what you saw.
http://seapics.com/feature-subject/marine-invertebrates/bobbitworm-pictures-002.html

One note of caution, do not try and grab either worm with your fingers, bristle worms are also called fire worms, because they sting big time. I don't know if a Bobbit worm stings...but it looks mean with those pinchers, and I wouldn't touch it with my bare hands.

 

[cav414]

Thanks for the info it almost looked like the one in the link the only difference was the bottom half of body was slander with no legs I did notice that while I was holding the rock to scrub it my hand would tingle if that makes since lol. And my star polyps already started coming back out this morning I couldn't believe it with all the scrubbing they went through. Also the diatoms are completely gone
Thank you for all your help

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cav414 http:///t/396155/newbie-help-please/80#post_3532659
Thanks for the info it almost looked like the one in the link the only difference was the bottom half of body was slander with no legs I did notice that while I was holding the rock to scrub it my hand would tingle if that makes since lol. And my star polyps already started coming back out this morning I couldn't believe it with all the scrubbing they went through. Also the diatoms are completely gone
Thank you for all your help

LOL...sounds like you had a harmless bristle worm (that tingling sensation means you were being stung a little)...the head end on a Eunice worm is evil looking.

 

[pegasus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cav414 http:///t/396155/newbie-help-please/80#post_3532659
Thanks for the info it almost looked like the one in the link the only difference was the bottom half of body was slander with no legs I did notice that while I was holding the rock to scrub it my hand would tingle if that makes since lol. And my star polyps already started coming back out this morning I couldn't believe it with all the scrubbing they went through. Also the diatoms are completely gone
Thank you for all your help
See if it looked like one of these worms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_KbY2-hV_4. Beneficial bristle worms are easy to identify by the flat body and black streak in the front half. They are harmless and aerate the sand, creating those tunnels you see.

You may have some nerve damage in your hand. Just kidding... lol! Be careful and try not to contact any fireworms. Some people are very allergic to the sting and can have serious reactions.

GSP's are very tough. When they contract, they close up and seem to turn into a solid rubber mat. They should be fully extended in a week's time, and will hopefully begin spreading across the rock. I've included a picture of what's left of my colony. They used to cover the rock they're on. The center got wiped out, and I was afraid I was going to lose all of them... but they are recovering now.

No comment on the diatoms...

A rise in Ammonia is probably due to a "mini" cycle. Little things like adding some new sand, a new rock, or even cleaning a mature rock (especially in fresh, unsalted water) can cause a spike. Killing a few organisms on/in the rock is a by-product of cleaning... collateral damage. It shouldn't last long, but keep an eye on it just to be safe.

 

[cav414]

It's very evil looking lol. And I kinda figured that's what it was but I couldn't see what was doing it.

 

[cav414]

Okay Im about 70% sure it was a bristle worm it was extremely small though so I can't be 100% sure my wife would flip if she saw those links lol id have to sell my tank.
On the nerve damage I wouldn't doubt it with the abuse my young body has been put through lol

 

[pegasus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by cav414 http:///t/396155/newbie-help-please/80#post_3532670
Okay Im about 70% sure it was a bristle worm it was extremely small though so I can't be 100% sure my wife would flip if she saw those links lol id have to sell my tank.
On the nerve damage I wouldn't doubt it with the abuse my young body has been put through lol
She might really flip if she ever saw what goes on in the tank after dark. Sometimes I sneak up to my tank and flip on a flashlight. All kinds of things go scurrying into the rocks. I keep seeing the tail of something black slithering into a hole in the rocks. Not sure what that thing is, so I keep trying to catch it away from the rocks.

Hey, go easy on the body. You have to live in it the rest of your life, so take care of it. K?

 

[brent mccloskey]

I use tweezers to pick them out. My coral banded shrimp has been eating them too. I caught him the other morning carrying off one about 1½" long.

 

[pegasus]

I usually find a half dozen or so bristle worms when I buy anything attached to a rock. I used to try to kill them with fresh water or coral dips, but after I realized they were harmless (and beneficial), I started adding them to the tank. Many times they will crawl out of the rock during drip acclimation, so I get a good look at them and know they're okay. I've gotten all kinds of hitch hikers. Conch snails, barnacles, worms, amphipods, slugs, and even a cool urchin. I'm sure I'm forgetting some others, but you catch my drift. Most hitch hikers are beneficial, or at the least harmless, but there are a few that are not good. Such as fire worms. They have an appetite for corals and can deliver a nasty sting.

Keeping them thinned isn't a bad idea, because they can spread pretty quickly. If you're dead-set against them altogether, they make traps that will speed up the process of eradication.

 

[geridoc]

She might really flip if she ever saw what goes on in the tank after dark. Sometimes I sneak up to my tank and flip on a flashlight. All kinds of things go scurrying into the rocks. I keep seeing the tail of something black slithering into a hole in the rocks. Not sure what that thing is, so I keep trying to catch it away from the rocks.
Hey, go easy on the body. You have to live in it the rest of your life, so take care of it. K?
Try putting some red cellophane over the light. Most night organisms don't see in the red, so they won't know you are there, and will continue their business.

 

[pegasus]

Thanks, Doc. I'd forgotten about the red light thingy.

 

[cav414]

Thanks for the red light trick id love to see what goes on at night.
And on the body I spent 6yrs in the army and have brings firefighter for 10 yrs I do the best I can lol

 

[cav414]

Hi everyone,
I haven't posted in awhile so I wanted to post an update. I've been fighting hair algae, and cyano bacteria (not sure I spelled that right) for a while now im finally starting to win the fight. More of it dies off everyday and my fish are doing great. Unfortunately they have eaten all of my snails but my crabs, sea star, and sea urchin are all doing we'll in fact my crabs have moved into bigger shells. Another unfortunate thing is half of my equipment has stopped working so im planing to build a whole new system. I'll start a new thread in the tank build forum and post the link here as it will be my first build from scratch and I'll need help.
Thank you all and I hope everyone is we'll,
Adam