Newbie

snowfighter

New Member
I started 17 days and not as poor ago. At 57 I am finally creating a dream I have had for some 36 years. The first thing I did was buy a copy of "The Saltwater Aquarium Handbook" by George Blasiola. I am glad that after reading it, I decided as a new enthusiast, to buy as large an aquarium as I could afford. I also decided that a sump system was perhaps the best way of economically and efficiently achieving good filtration. I must admit, that by the time I walked out of the store I had spent quite a sum of money on the 65 gallon corner over flow, acrylic sump, lighting system, bucket of salt water mix and a bag of substrate. Even further shocked that I had to buy ROCK!! I had not even considered that tap water was probably out of the question. I was advised that although a "primer" would decrease the chlorine in municipal tap water, it would not get rid of unwanted trace elements.
I used bottled distilled water from the grocery store and mixed the sea salt as directed. After a thousand years, the aquarium and sump were finally filled to the correct levels. Oh! and the plumbing of the aquarium to the sump was a peachy experience too. I then washed and put my aragonite reef sand down as substrate. Everything that needed cleaned, wiped or washed, I used distilled water as I was concerned about "city water" and the effects it might have. I started out with about 50 pounds of live rock and began the cycle. A couple of days later I added about 16 more pounds for a total of 66 lbs. I also had purchased an ammonia indicator, just a small plastic tag with some kind of "button" in the middle. Changes colour according to the concentration of ammonia as I was sure that the ultimate spike would occur soon. In between, lots of research on the internet. Now one thing I have learned so far... lots of different opinions for a salt water enthusiast to sift through.
I never did get an ammonia spike. I learned that sometimes (especially with cured live rock) it is very very short and may not occur at all. I did not have much in the way of a testing kit at the time, and 12 days later I began to see green algae growing on the rocks and glass of the aquarium. I figured that the system was in the Nitrate part of the cycle. I immediately went and purchased a test for Nitrate. I expected to see it off the charts. To my bewilderment.. it was 0. Now I really was scratching my head. Nothing I was researching was matching what was happening in my system. No ammonia spike. No Nitrate, just the start of an algae bloom. I was advised to put a fish in the tank as A) the cured live rock had created the necessary ammonia and B) the algae bloom was consuming the Nitrate faster than it could be produced. I decided on two tank raised False Percula Clownfish as I had researched they would be fairly hardy. As of today they are both doing quite well, swimming about, feeding and show no signs of stress at all.
It is my nature to "need to know" and it was driving me crazy that my system was not doing as I had expected. I purchased a little more elaborate testing kit which allowed me to test for Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Ph level. Since the first day I started all of this, I have been fairly diligent about keeping an aquarium log. I record the date, time, salinity, water temperature and general description of what I see or what I have added. The average temperature is 24.4 degrees celsius (75.9F). Around 24C was suggested by my local reef shop, but I think this is too low. I started with a salinity of 1.022, but I am raising it to 1.024 gradually. Ammonia is less than 0.25 ppm. Nitrate is less than 0.50 ppm. Ph level is at 7.8 and I would like to see that parameter rise to 8 or 8.2 if possible. On day 15 after testing for Nitrite which was at 0, I decided to introduce the clean up crew to alleviate some of the algae growing everywhere. The Turbo Snails and Hermit Crabs went to work within an hour. Two days later and there is hardly a noticeable trace of algae. I am afraid they will now starve from lack of food.
During all this time, I had been watching a single Aiptasia swaying in the current on the very bottom live rock near the back.It was a bit of dumb luck that I discovered what it was. Once I realized what it was and how evil it is to get rid of, I tried burring it with the substrate. That didn't work. I tried lemon juice with a syringe, but it was too deep and awkward to get to properly. I think it was still young and not matured yet. I did not see any signs of it anywhere else on that rock or other live rock in the aquarium. I was quite dismayed, but eventually decided that I am too much of a novice to deal with an outbreak of aiptasia. My research was telling me it is a nasty little thing to eradicate. Since it was only one, and only one rock, I decided to dismantle my mini reef of live rock and pull the damn infested rock out. I knew on the rock where it was, so with hammer in hand, I broke that corner off in a container three thousand miles away from the aquarium. I purchased more live rock (so now I have about 88 lbs and a million bucks worth) and rebuilt the little reef. I made sure that the infested rock is near the top and is much easier to get to if need be. I saved the chunk I broke off and put it in a glass container with salt water. I watched as it slowly came creeping out of its crevice and I was sure that I had broken the right piece off. I have a picture of it after it had left the piece of rock. I was absolutely floored that it did that. I had no idea they could move. Hopefully... aiptasia problem solved.
Day 17 and everything is going well. I think I might have lost a few Hermits in all that ruckus, and I lost a Snail from acclimation, but basically everything is doing good. All my parameters are where they should be, or at least acceptable levels, with the exception of perhaps raising the salinity to 1.024 and getting the Ph up. I did learn that I should be testing the Ph at night and not in the morning though. I have done some minimal water changes of perhaps 3 or 4% at most and with water quality as it is.. I am just aching to add more fish. I would like to add 5 Blue Reef Chromis, but I know I must wait. Another thing I have learned, and is stressed no matter whos opinion it is... You have to have patience.
Sorry this is a bit long winded and long. I hope someone will read it and tell me if I am on the right path and if a Peppermint Shrimp would do any harm at this time. Have a great evening :)
 

pepito113

Member
Hello And welcome to the forum... I have learned alot here and I learn more everyday..Maybe you should get a ro/di unit which I think would save you money and headaches and not get distilled water. Never try to use city water...good call there. What kind of light unit do you have? Also if you had a amnonia spike when you added the clown maybe the tank wasnt ready? What I did was setup my tank with rocks. I used 3 pieces of shrimp from the local supermarket... Left them in a little net that I could pull it out when I wanted too... After the amnonia spiked high enough I pulled them out and waited till my numbers went through the cycle. I did add 2 clown fish and was good.. Keep testing the water. I would wait a few more weeks before adding any more fish... I too have a 65 gallon tank. but rectangle.. I have 6 fish in there and that is pushing it... So if u have 2 clowns and add 5 blue chromis you would be maxing out.. So make sure you have a list of fish you want and we can help you out.. Also you should have a hospital tank and place every new memeber in there for a few weeks... Monitor and treat the fish if need be...
AND TANK SOME PICTURES SO WE CAN SEE.....
 

rickross23

Active Member
Great story. Read my signature.
You seem to be progressing great! What do you feed your clowns? Do you have a protein skimmer? What type of lighting system do you have? Ik this hobby is EXPENSIVE! my dad calls it a "money pit" haha. Any questions pm me or post it here.
 

bang guy

Moderator
It does sound as if you have a knowledgeable local fish store. That's a plus. There are an infinate number of ways to set up a system and I see no flaws with the way you did it.
Welcome to the addiction! I'm so happy you get to realize one of your dreams.
 

snowfighter

New Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bang Guy http:///t/391544/newbie#post_3473016
It does sound as if you have a knowledgeable local fish store. That's a plus. There are an infinate number of ways to set up a system and I see no flaws with the way you did it.
Welcome to the addiction! I'm so happy you get to realize one of your dreams.
Thankyou for the warm welcome. I am not using a Ph buffer, but it would be great if someone could point me in the right direction as to how to get the ph level up a notch or two. My understanding is the ph level is higher later in the day and lower during the evening. I haven't delved into it too much for the moment. I am definitely thinking about a 10% water change next week. I would like to comment on your quote. The ***********.com website has a pretty good listing of fishes. Each fish is described in pretty good detail. Under the description of the Amphiprion Ocellaris it states;
Quote:
The Ocellaris Clownfish, also known as the False Percula Clownfish, False Clown Anemonefish, and Anemone Demoiselle, is found....
Stan and Debbie Hauter from About.com are in agreement with this fact
. They have been enthusiasts from 1989. So if you want to get all technical on me.. Since I know how to spell Amphiprion Ocellaris.. I would say that gives me the right to care for 2 False Percula Clownfish. Don't get me wrong Bang Guy. I don't mind being corrected, so long as the correction is coming from someone who has all the facts.
If you have something constructive to say, it would surely be appreciated. Have a great day
 

bang guy

Moderator
On the PH concern, I can only offer what has worked for me. My first opinion is that your system is simply young and unstable and a few more weeks of good husbandry is all that is needed. Do you have a protein skimmer? Can you list all of the equipment you have for waterflow (pumps, powerheads, paddle wheels
).
But first, I'll list the most common causes of a low PH:
#1 - By far, the most common reason is excess CO2 levels. There are a good number of reasons why CO2 is high, some are easily resolved, some are not. Insufficient waterflow (to aid gas exchage), malfunctioning or inadequate skimmer (again gas exchange), high CO2 levels in the air (common in winter months), overstocked tank.
#2 - Rotting organic material releasing metabolic acids. This is common on very young tanks and also very old tanks. Clogged mechanical filtration and accumulated detritus are also causes.
#3 - Low Alkalinity. This is not the most common cause for low PH but it is how many hobbiests try to correct low PH, and fail. Adding a PH buffer is the cure for low Alkalinity and will raise PH successfully if the Alkalinity was in fact low. However, if the Alkalinity was not low to begin with then the PH will soon drop again and often the hobbiest will add even more buffer. If this continues then eventually Alkalinity gets to the point where it precipitates out of solution along with Calcium and Magnesium. These precipitation events are very stressful on the inhabitants, especially corals.
So, what is in my signature about buffers not fixing PH is not entirely true. They can if the Alkalinity is actually very low but you must, of course, test it to know.
 

bang guy

Moderator
The False Percula common name came out in the early 80s. Ocellaris Clownfish were fairly common in the hobby and always mislabeled as "Percula". When Percula Clownfish started to gain in popularity they were labeled "True Percula". Not long after stores began labeling Ocellaris as "False Percula" so they could charge the additional $5 - $10 for the "True Percula".
It's a real common name, I don't dispute it. I think it's a shame though. It's like calling a cow a false horse in my opinion. People will certainly know what species you are referring to but why not call them Ocellaris instead of "False (insert other fish name).
I set up my first reef tank in 1979. I've made nearly every mistake at least once.
Most of my advice comes for me doing it wrong in the past and attempting to steer new hobbiests away from techniques that have not worked for me in the past. It certainly doesn't mean I'm right, it's just my opinion of course.
 

bang guy

Moderator
My opinion on adding a Peppermint Shrimp.
They are prone to stress. This makes them a risky choice for a very young tank. My opinion would be to wait a couple more weeks and then get at least 2 of them. A single Peppermint can thrive in a good environment but even in a good system they seem to be a lot less stressed when not alone. They will also quickly start breeding and their offspring make for a very nutritious snack for the other inhabitants.
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowfighter http:///t/391544/newbie#post_3473048
Stan and Debbie Hauter from About.com are in agreement with this fact
. They have been enthusiasts from 1989. So if you want to get all technical on me.. Since I know how to spell Amphiprion Ocellaris.. I would say that gives me the right to care for 2 False Percula Clownfish. Don't get me wrong Bang Guy. I don't mind being corrected, so long as the correction is coming from someone who has all the facts.
If you have something constructive to say, it would surely be appreciated. Have a great day

Hi,
I don't understand your post....you seem angry at Bang Guy for some reason I'm not seeing. As for having ALL the facts, well even the books you read don't have ALL the facts....So I guess it's a darn good thing Stan and Debbie Hauter does. I hope you have a great day too.
 

sweatervest13

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/391544/newbie#post_3473057
Hi,
I don't understand your post....you seem angry at Bang Guy for some reason I'm not seeing. As for having ALL the facts, well even the books you read don't have ALL the facts....So I guess it's a darn good thing Stan and Debbie Hauter does. I hope you have a great day too.

Hi Snowfighter and Welcome!!!
Flower,
Maybe he thought that Bang Guy's signature at the bottom of his posts were directed at him and not just a signature??
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweatervest13 http:///t/391544/newbie#post_3473059
Hi Snowfighter and Welcome!!!
Flower,
Maybe he thought that Bang Guy's signature at the bottom of his posts were directed at him and not just a signature??
AH...Until this moment I never even noticed the signature....Okay that makes sense. I kept reading Guy's post and I just couldn't see why Snowfighter got all pissy...so I got sarcastic back
Sorry Snowfighter...we really are nice folks...a little over protective of friends maybe.
 

snowfighter

New Member
Okay.. now that we have established I can get "pissy" when I perhaps take things the wrong way, let's move on from there. I apologize if anyone was offended. I would like to thank all of you who responded for your kind words and warm welcome. I am sure I will benefit from the wealth of your experience and knowledge.
I think I need to clarify a few things. Most of the equipment I have is by a company based out California (I dont think I am supposed to say the companies name). It is a popular brand up here in Canada. The aquarium is a corner overflow with the pre-drilled holes in the bottom and came with all the plumbing and fittings. The aquarium measures 3 feet long X 2 feet high X 18 inches wide. This sits atop the matching stand for this aquarium. I have a manufactured acrylic Sump Filtration System which takes up the entire bottom of the aquarium stand. The overflow drains directly into the first sump chamber by means of tube with about 18 pre-drilled holes. From here the water travels up and overflows into a series of trays (4 in total). The first two have filter pads. The third has a carbon pillow which should be replaced every 21 days (recommended). The last tray has 5 or 6 holes at the back and the water runs through these and onto a bio-wheel. Of course the water flow turns the wheel and the water overflows into another chamber, and ultimatley to the water pump. The pump is rated for 500 gallons per hour at 4 feet. From the pump the water is moved up into the aquarium and expelled through "duck billed" jets. These can be re-directed as one wishes. I have one directed to the surface to get a bit of a ripple on the surface, and the other directed down. I seem to have a good circular current around the aquarium.
I should mention here that right from the outset, I decided to build a FOWLR system. I just dont think I have enough experience to care for corals, and one has to learn to walk before they can run. I have a T5HO lighting system with (4) tubes. The fixture goes end to end, but is only about 9 inches wide, so I centered front to back. There are (2) 10K Daylight tubes, (1) 420nm Actinic tube and (1) 460nm Actinic tube. There are (3) 1W LED moonlights also. I find the moonlights a bit bright and one would have been enough. These I only put on when there is a full moon. The Daylights and Actinics are on timers. Actinics set to come on at 7am and turn off at 9pm. The daylights are set to come on at 8am and turn off at 7pm. That is one hour of simulated dawn, 11 hours of simulated daylight and 2 hours of simulated dusk. 10 hours of darkness. I have a 200W submersible heater which at first I placed in the sump in the return chamber before the pump. I found I was getting too much temperature fluctuation. I have a digital thermometer with the probe attached to the back of the aquarium. I painted the outside back of the aquarium with a flat black latex paint. Just my preference which I think is appealing. I have since moved the heater into the corner overflow chamber in the aquarium, but still seem to be getting too much of a flunctuation. I have seen the thermometer read as low as 24.0C (75.2F) at times and go as high as 25.8C (78.4F) at other times. This 1.8C (3.3F) difference worries me a little. I dont seem to be able to get it constant. No real pattern to the fluctuation.
So... that is about it for the equipment in my system. I feel confident that these basics provide good water flow and needed filtration at the moment. Of course there is not a great deal of bio-load on the system yet with two little Anemone Clownfish, 9 Turbo Snails and a dozen or more Hermit Crabs. I have about 65 lbs. of live rock in the display tank. I have built a mound in the middle which reaches about 8 or 10 inches from the surface. I know this sounds kind of boring, but I have made some interesting caves and ledges. I wanted to keep rock away from the back, sides and front for easy cleaning, which proved to be the case during the algae bloom. I also have a glass top and an automatic feeder set for 7am and 7pm. As I only have the two Clowns to care for at the moment, the feeder dispenses dry veggie flakes which I have ground very finely. I have seen the little Clowns spit out flakes which are too large. I give as little food as possible and it doesn't take the fish much more than 2 or 3 minutes to find most of it. I know their diet should be supplimented with other nutrients, but have been negligent with that for the moment.
I have no protein skimmer as of yet, since the cost does not warrant the bio-load right now. I do know that everyone raves about the virtues of a protein skimmer and I understand that this might be something I wish to consider in the future. I have also discovered that my local reef shop sells RO water. It is very reasonably priced, so I will be using this for water changes and top ups. Plain Jane RO is 75 cents a gallon and RO treated with salt is $1.25 a gallon. By the way.. due to the fact the humid Summer weather is not here, I lose about half a gallon of water every 3 or 4 days from evaporation. Regular RO for top ups and salt treated for water exchanges, right?
I hope I have covered everybodies questions, and I thankyou all for your inquiries and suggestions. Here are a few questions I have which I am wondering about:
1) Is my water flow adequate, I am not sure if I should be using a small powerhead for even more current?
2) Is 14 hours of illumination too much, okay or not enough?
3) Is 10% water exchange once a week adequate at this time, realizing that 20% once a week as more bio-load increases will be the norm?

4) Any suggestions on that temperature fluctuation, or need I not worry so much?

Hey Bang Guy, Thanks for the tips on the ph and I will take your suggestion on the Peppermint Shrimp. I think I need to just simmer down a bit and let the system stabilize some more. Everyone.. Have a great weekend
 

bang guy

Moderator
0) - Regular RO for top ups and salt treated for water exchanges, right?
Yep! Look into getting your own RO filter. It's a very good long term investment. It improves your drinking water too.
1) - Is my water flow adequate
Probably not. The live rock really needs a lot of energy to stay healthy long term. No hurry but I'd budget a powerhead to increase waterflow even before getting a skimmer.
2) - Is 14 hours of illumination too much
I typically recommend 8 - 12. 14 will do no harm if it increases your viewing pleasure.
3) - Is 10% water exchange once a week adequate

Yes, this is adequate, especially if it's a convenient amount for you.
4) - Any suggestions on that temperature fluctuation

I wouldn't worry about it. As a suggestion, try setting the heater 2 degrees higher and see if that stabilizes it more.
 

snowfighter

New Member
Well I am into about my fourth week. Since my last post I have taken Bang Guys suggestion and purchased a power head. I also got rid of the water outlet device that came with the aquarium. It split into two and had duck billed fan shaped things at the end. With the water output so close to the back and near the corner overflow bulkhead I found I just couldn't get the flow to go where I wanted. I took it off and changed it over to a single with a a round attachment at the end. I am not sure what it is called, but it is the same as my local fish store uses (LFS ?). I was told for every gallon that is pushed out, it intakes 4 gallons from the vents. Not sure how that works, but took them at their word and now I have a good strong flow and I can direct it where I want. The powerhead pushes the water at a rate of 1200 gph on the opposite corner of the tank. It has a dial which can dampen the flow. This I used as there is a good circular water flow around the live rock. The two little Anemone Clownfish are getting quite a work out. All in all, everything seems to be doing well.
I also thought it best to have a Quarantine Tank. So off I went with credit card in hand to Wally Mart. I did a little research and discovered this was the place to get a reasonably priced 20 gallon tank. So I set the QT up about a week ago. I drained existing water from my main tank and filled the QT up to about 50%. I filled the remaining 50% with water from LFS. Yes! I will be purchasing an RO unit sometime soon. The size of my main tank and the use of a QT warrants such a purchase in the near future. The QT is bare bones. Nothing but the filtration unit it came with, a heater, small powerhead to move the water, an air pump and air stone to help with oxygen, thermometer and an ammonia alert badge. It came with canopy and lighting hood (two 25 watt bulbs). I understand that lighting in a QT is not all that important and in some cases, enthusiasts don't even use them. I hardly turn them on, maybe a couple of hours at night. I have an auto feeder on the QT also.
Since I wanted to have a Sailfin Blennie (I guess there are other names for this fish ie. Algae Blennie) in my main tank and a small school of Chromis, I purchased a Blennie and 5 Blue/Green Chromis. These are in the QT and are doing well. I had put an old cup in the bottom of the tank, one for weighing the air stone down, and two for fish to feel more secure. The Blennie likes to wedge himself beside the handle. It still scoots around once in a while and has no problem darting out when food is introduced. The Chromis were shy at first, but now are swimming all about and they too are eating well. I don't see any signs of stress and I am watching for ich. LFS told me they had been treated for Chromis disease. Once again the name of the disease escapes me. I would think that by the time the quarantine period is over, my main tank will have stabilized and should be about at the 7 or 8 week mark. When I started the QT, I drained my main tank down to about 75%. So the main tank has had a good 25% water change. I also cleaned the filters and removed some detritus which had collected in the bio-wheel chamber. I also have some live rock in the return chamber of the sump, in a low flow area. I have read that there are beneficial algaes the grow well in low flow low light/dark zones. So, I am going to give that a shot.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. A criticism would be welcomed, especially if I am doing something wrong.
Have a Great Day
 

bang guy

Moderator
No criticism I can think of at this point. Looks like all is going to plan. How's the modest temp fluctuation? Not something you need to worry about but you were going to try to reduce the amount of fluctuation.
The algae idea in the sump... It won't be growing algae without light. It will grow bacteria and possibly sponges and pods (Amphipods, Copepods, Isopods, ...)
 

snowfighter

New Member
Hey Bang Guy, hope you having a good weekend. I stand corrected, you are right. I think it is bacteria the article mentioned. I am damned if I can find where I came across it, but it was on the iNet. I think the jist of it was that certain beneficial bacteria grow in low flow/low light or near dark zones which use the same nutrients as algae and therefore compete and help to reduce algae in the display tank. If I come across the article again I will post a link as it thought it was informative and made sense.
No... not worrying about the temperature fluctuations so much. I will probably end up putting the heater back down into the sump, as putting it the corner overflow made no difference. So if and when I do, I will turn the heater up a notch and see if that helps to keep the fluctuations under control a bit better. I had only worried about it because I read temperature fluctuations of 1 or 2 degrees within a 24 hour period were not desirable. Sometimes too much information can be a dangerous thing ~lol~
 

cjworkman

Member
JMO on flow.. but because you have a 65 gallon 3 foot long x 2 feet deep tank.. i personally think 4 smaller powerheads would work better than 2 large ones. I'd have 2 pointing opposite angles at slightly different heights near the top and then have 2 lower in the tank.
that would be different than having a 55 gallon show tank that is 4 feet long and only 16" high. where 2 larger powerheads should move the water good.
 

snowfighter

New Member
Thanks for the input CJ. While I appreciate your opinion and see the validity, I am way over budget on this project already. My LFS knows my set up, even showed them some little video clips. I took their suggestion of a larger than needed (I thought anyway) power head to get good water flow. Since I have already committed to going with two strong sources of water flow.. I am kinda stuck with it. I am just going to have to work with what I have for the moment until my budget catches up with my needs. Really though... I do thank you for your opinion. Having a terrible time keeping the algae under control. I am going to cut back on the lighting and try feeding once a day instead of twice for Anemone Clowns. Glass is coated every 3rd or 4th day... so need for me to worry about the Snails and Crabs starving ~lol~ Have a Great Day
 
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