Newby questions

[billb]

Greetings all,
I have just purchased a 29 Gallon (would have been bigger, but thats all that will fit) tank. I would like to eventually turn it into a reef tank, but at this point I think Live sand, Live Rock a few fish and inverts will be the way to start.
I was just wondering, is this a good tank? Is the Eclipse3 Bio-wheel decent enough for it?
also the heater that comes with it?
(I dont know the wattage of the one on there already, but it's held a steady 76.2 degrees (f) for 3 days now)
I have added two Powersweep 214 heads to it for good circulation (they have filters also mounted to them.
I added a digital Themometer. I used the instant ocean that came with it. I have added about 2 inches - 3 inches of carrabean play sand to it.
Since this unit has cover that doesn't really look like it can "hang" a skimmer, what would you folks suggest or is there a model that will work with this tank.
I plan on adding a bag of Live sand and about 30-40 lbs of live rock..
Right now it's still "Milkey" as far as color/clarity, (I can see all the way from front to back)
Right now the specs are: (using a Fastest kit (supplied with setup))
Temp: 76.2 (f)
Salinity: 1.0227
Ammonia: <0.0
Nitrate: <10
Nitrite: <2
Nitrite: <0.2
Ph: 8.1
Comments/suggestions/Next step to read up on?
Thanks Much,
BillB

 

[007]

sounds like you have done a little homework.
I would start reading about "the nitrogen cycle" and methods of accomplishing it.

 

[hookedonreefs]

BillB -
I have the exact same tank for my second reef. Here's some tips....
1) to use as a reef tank, you'll need better lighting. They have a pc unit that is a perfect replacement for the NO light in the hood.
2) a prizm skimmer will fit in the hood with a little modification. You'll need a dremel tool, and you can get the prizm in on the left side
3) take the bio-wheel out and throw it away. They're nitrate factories and will create a major spike in trates.
Let me know if you need more direction, I'll have pics tomorrow....
GL
hooked

 

[billb]

Thanks for the reply folks...I'll be interested in the Mods needed. I'm fairly handy, so it shouldn't be any problem(have dremel and assorted other tools). We have the prism skimmer locally too. Any info on retrofits for the lighting (website/name) will also be good. As Iv'e mentioned, for the time being, I'll be trying just the simple(er) stuff first. Just added some live sand today, so I get to watch it cloud all back up again. I do have a friend in the business, and he will help me out with the Live rock situation soon. Can't wait, but I know patience is they key here.
Thanks again..
BillB

 

[hookedonreefs]

Lighting info can be found here
It's a great company, and it even comes with instructions to change from Eclipse 3 lighting to this lighting. (At 65 watts it's not too bad for most softies and a few LPS.)
I'll take some pics of the prizm mod I did. It's really just cutting out at the right areas for the prizm to fit into the hood. I'll try to post the pics asap.
GL
hooked

 

[dana&pj]

I have not personally used them, but I have heard good things about hellolights.com. It looks like they have some really good deals if you are willing to DIY. Good luck
Dana
of Dana&PJ

 

[beaslbob]

Just a heads up on the fasttest nitrAte kit. I bought one to compare with the aquarium pharm.... test kit. Both instructions stated that total nitrates are related to nitrate-nitrogen by a factor of 4.4. With nitrate_nitrogen=total nitrates/4.4.
the fasttest kit measures nitrate_nitrogen whereas the aquarium pharm.... and tetratec both measure total nitrates.
So if you had 0-10ppm on the fastkit that equals 0-44. ppm on the other test kits.

 

[billb]

BeaslBob,
My NitrAte comparitor chip (for lack of a better name) has five steps. These steps are: 10/20/40/70/100 It says, if I understand correctly, that these are mg/l (milligrams per liter or ppm (parts per million). Are you saying I shouldn't be reading these as they are representated and I need to convert? The instructions say that 20 - 40 ppm represent water quality sufficiant for most routine maintenance, but a ppm of less than 20 will be better for reef.
The NitrIte chip comparitor has 2 (two) sets of markings on it.
they are: 2/4/6/8/10 which are coupled with 0.2/0.4/0.60.8/1.0
and are for Low Range and High Range Monitoring (which will probably be my next question)...
comments?
Thanks...
BillB

 

[billb]

Hooked,
Thanks for the link..I dive into more reading and have a look, greatly appreciated..
BillB

 

[007]

I have that same test kit (FasTest and have used it for nearly two years . . . . I have absolutley no idea what beaslbob is talking about. It does mention that it measures nitrate-nitrogen compounds . . . but there is no need for a conversion. Read the color chip as printed.

 

[billb]

007,
Thanks...it makes it a little easier that way....
Since you have used the same kit, may I inquire futher:
For NitrIte testing:
Is the "Low Range" testing read off the 2/4/6/8/10 scale?
(ie.) (A.) For a Low Range reading, I use 100% tank water and a test chemical packet, shake, and after 10 minutes, I should be reading off the 2/4/6/8/10 scale?
"and then?"
(B.) For a High Range reading, I use 0.5 Mil of tank water, and mix the rest with fresh water(TAP) (?) and a test chemical packet, shake, and after 10 minutes, I should be reading off the 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1.0 scale?
"IF" this is correct, do I add the 2 (two) togather, to get an accurrate reading?
(ie.) I get a reading on situation (A.) of 4 .... and I get a reading on situation (B.) of 0.6 .... my reading would be 4.6??
Should these two processes(scales of measurement) be reversed?
Maybe you (or others) can shed some light on my process, so I get it right from the start..
thanks again..
BillB

 

[007]

you have actually got it reversed . . . the low range uses the smaller scale and less than 100% tank water and the high range scale uses the 2/4/6/8/10 scale. And no, there is no need to do both tests and add together.
Just do the high range when you are cycling and the low range for standard monitoring after the cycle is complete.
Just an FYI, I have never used the nitrite or ammonia kit again after the cycle, and I have never done a test using the low range. Never had a need to.

 

[cholland]

I was just reading the post.....
hookedonreefs
Did you say take the bio-wheel out and not use one?
Why would you do that?
Just curious

 

[hookedonreefs]

BillB wants to go reef with this tank. Bio-wheels are notorious for creating huge amounts of nitrates. In a reef tank, inverts (corals especially) can not tolerate high nitrate levels.
Eclipse systems were manufactured for fish only (FO) tanks. At least, when you REALLY analyze them you can assume that they were not built for reefs. In a FO environment, high nitrates aren't too bad. Yes you will get algae blooms, but the regular water changes only keep trates in check.
In a reef system you really want 10ppm trates max. (Some may disagree, but considering that many softies, clams, and macro algae do need trates - I don't think a 3-10ppm trate reading is bad if you have the right stuff in your tank and are a medium to advanced hobbyist) <-ooo that's a run-on sentence

So - long story short - you want to minimize the producers of nitrates in a reef tank. Now, a cleanup crew along with a few fish are going to cause enough waste to register trates into a tank. You don't want to have something that's going to dump alot of trates in there. One of these would be a bio-wheel. Great for holding the bacteria to break down ammonia into nitrites, and nitrites into nitrates. But also a great medium for keep the nitrates as well, and not letting it be intorduced to nitrate uptake organisms like macroalgae, some soft corals (like xenia), clams and anerobic bacteria.
Hope that helps. Sorry so long.
hooked

 

[cholland]

hooked,
That is interesting. I have a FOWLR and want to slowly move to a reef setup. And my nitrates tend to run a little high, more than 10ppm. I do regular water changes with RO water. But was curious about removing the biowheel.
My setup is 55 gal, 3-4" LS, 50-55lbs of LR, and several fish.
Would it hurt to remove them and see how it affects the 'trates?

 

[beaslbob]

billb and 007
My only point was that when comparing two test kits you need to know what is actually being tested for. The fasttest kit says on the box "tests nitrate-nitrogen" where aquarium pharm... and the tetratec both test for total nitrates. All the instructions state the nitrate-nitrogen must be multiplied by 4.4 to give total nitrates.
that is regardless of the specific actoins required to read the test results.
If your fasttest kit read 0-10ppm (nitrate-nitrogen) and the aquarium pharm.. tested at 40ppm (total nitrogen) the tests are giving the same results.
It is not a units issue. It is waht is being measured.

 

[hookedonreefs]

There are ways to make the switch. I (personally) would start by adding another 10-20 lbs. of either LR or dead/base rock. Let that grab some good stuff and the dead rock will be cheaper. Then think about nutrient export. Do you have a sump? You'll want macro (I suggest chaeto).
LMK,
hooked

 

[cholland]

hooked,
No, I don't have a sump. Just the hangon filter, protein skimmer and 2 powerheads.
Do you have to have a sump for a reef?

 

[hookedonreefs]

No - You definately don't NEED a sump for a reef. They are very valuable however. I have a 29 gallon eclipse that doesn't not have a sump plumbed into it. I just found a place in the tank to grow macroalgae where it still looks natural, and is easy to maintain. You can also use xenia as a nutrient export system.
You can try taking the biowheel out and seeing how that affects you trate levels.
GL
hooked

 

[cholland]

hooked
ok, I will try it and monitor the levels to see what it does.
thanks