News flash: the war in Iraq is NOT a war against terror

[scubadoo]

BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. forces came upon a recently abandoned terrorist training camp on the outskirts of Baghdad where recruits were apparently taught how to make bombs and what to do if they got captured, the Marines said Wednesday.
The extensive camp consisted of about 20 permanent buildings on 25 acres south of the city and was operated by the Iraqi government and the Palestine Liberation Front, said Marine spokesman Cpl. John Hoellwarth.
Among the documents found were filled-out questionnaires that included such questions as "What type of missions would you like to carry out?" according to Hoellwarth. He said many recruits wanted to carry out suicide missions.
The camp included an obstacle course and what appeared to be a prison, to teach terrorists what to do if captured and interrogated, Hoellwarth said.
Recruits were also apparently taught how to make bombs, he said. The Marines found chemicals, beakers and pipes.
Hoellwarth said uniforms and gas masks were also left behind, along with bread and other food, suggesting the place had been used fairly recently.

 

[reefer747]

Originally Posted by lovethesea
people walking free in their streets, not fearing the wrath of a dictator. Schools and business running as they see fit. Women actually holding a place in society, not just Saddams intell. To know that they can come and go as they please.
Believe me, the storeis that our friends can tell, are horrific. Their families that could not get out years ago, are now glad to be a part of their history. Freedom to vote without fear of being killed if you didn't vote for Saddam. Some of them don't look at this as a war, but more of getting rid of a dictator that was harvesting hatred, terrorism, and mass murder and theivery.
People are NOT walking free in the streets of Iraq. They may not have a dictator any longer, but they don't want to be blown up or shot. I suppose there a few good stories out there, but lets face it; this is a pointless war. It HAD a point, now it is just a war so that Bush will have a legacy. Whether that is good or bad, is up to debate. They may now have the freedom to vote, but many still do not vote, for fear of being blown up. If they really wanted their dictator gone, they would have continued to try to overthrow him....they didnt. Well, they did, but not continuously. The sad part about dictators is the control they have over people, that people start treating them like a god. To the point where they do not know how to make their own decisions. This is the reason why Kim Jong II is still in power. It isn't that North Koreans are scared of him, (though some are), it is that he has brainwashed so many people into thinking people cannot make their own decisions. He is treated like a GOD by North Koreans. It is really a very sad thing. Sorry, didnt mean to start talking about North Korea...back to the topic:Iraq.

 

[cartman101]

***) ***) I love the argueing!

 

[reefer747]

Originally Posted by Cartman101
***) ***) I love the argueing!
Why don't ya join in and not just watch the show? LOL!

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by Reefer747
People are NOT walking free in the streets of Iraq. They may not have a dictator any longer, but they don't want to be blown up or shot.
Yea, but do you think they want to be gang raped or tortured instead?

Lets say we went to Iraq over a mis-belief that there was WMBs and a threat to USA. Ok, there is no WMBs, or, at least not to the scale we expected. That Iraq was a thread with Saddam....come on, its hard to say he wasn't no matter what your political persuasion is.
We are there now, and we are not cowards, nor do we hit and run. We MUST stay there to ensure that this very centrally located country does not turn into a terrorist Disney Land or another anti-US country in the Middle East. And, if that "cause" does not strike your fancy, then lets just be there to fix what was broken and get the Iraqis on their feet.

 

[reefer747]

Originally Posted by Beth
Yea, but do you think they want to be gang raped or tortured instead?

Lets say we went to Iraq over a mis-belief that there was WMBs and a threat to USA. Ok, there is no WMBs, or, at least not to the scale we expected. That Iraq was a thread with Saddam....come on, its hard to say he wasn't no matter what your political persuasion is.
We are there now, and we are not cowards, nor do we hit and run. We MUST stay there to ensure that this very centrally located country does not turn into a terrorist Disney Land or another anti-US country in the Middle East. And, if that "cause" does not strike your fancy, then lets just be there to fix what was broken and get the Iraqis on their feet.
If they would keep their mouth shut, they wouldnt have to worry about being gang raped or tortured. Now, I am not trying to sound like I am supporting Saddam Hussein, because I am FAR from that, in fact in another galaxy or universe. Americans have never been cowards, however, if we did leave, I honestly do not believe there would be an increase in violence. The Iraqi military and government, in my opinion, can handle this on their own. One more anti-US country is like eating one more potato chip. Big deal. So many countries these days hate us, that it is just not right. So, that cause does not "strike my fancy." I believe the Iraqis are almost on their feet completely and we should be there to fix what was broken. What bothers me, is the Mr. Bush is not even giving a BASIC TIMELINE to withdrawal of troops.

 

[farmboy]

If the President lied, then someone or some agency(more likely) knows the truth of pre-war intel. They would be squealing like mashed cats about this. NO doubt about it. The fact is we went with the best info we had. Dems and Republicans agreed to go to war.

 

[reefer747]

So what if they both agreed to go to war! We have been there, done our duties, and now we just need to finish up, and be gone! Iraq is now a successful democracy, and within a few years will be a flourishing country with a good economy. Now, I would, and many democrats, and even a few republicans, would like at least a VERY BASIC timeline for the withdrawal of troops in Iraq.

 

[cartman101]

Originally Posted by Reefer747
Why don't ya join in and not just watch the show? LOL!
because its a free country

 

[reefer747]

Originally Posted by Farmboy
If the President lied, then someone or some agency(more likely) knows the truth of pre-war intel. They would be squealing like mashed cats about this. NO doubt about it. The fact is we went with the best info we had. Dems and Republicans agreed to go to war.
Have you watched TV lately? The president is getting caught up in a series of lies he has told. They wont squeal. Look at the CIA leak. Some of those people kept quiet for years.

 

[reefer747]

Originally Posted by Cartman101
because its a free country

 

[scubadoo]

October 10, 2002
Floor Speech of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
on S.J. Res. 45, A Resolution to Authorize the Use of
United States Armed Forces Against Iraq
As Delivered
Today we are asked whether to give the President of the United States authority to use force in Iraq should diplomatic efforts fail to dismantle Saddam Hussein's chemical and biological weapons and his nuclear program.
I am honored to represent nearly 19 million New Yorkers, a thoughtful democracy of voices and opinions who make themselves heard on the great issues of our day especially this one. Many have contacted my office about this resolution, both in support of and in opposition to it, and I am grateful to all who have expressed an opinion. .........
.......It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.

 

[lovethesea]

Originally Posted by Reefer747
I believe the Iraqis are almost on their feet completely and we should be there to fix what was broken. What bothers me, is the Mr. Bush is not even giving a BASIC TIMELINE to withdrawal of troops.

You just told me that they aren't free and fear for their lives. And this was pointless. I know for a fact, they would rather live as they are now (this familiy does not speak for all of course) knowing that they are better off. Its not pointles now. The Iraqi troops are gaining in strength and numbers and will soon be able to do this on their own. I believe we will have a prensence there for a long time, just in fewer numbers. How do you give a timeline to something like this?

 

[reefer747]

Originally Posted by lovethesea
You just told me that they aren't free and fear for their lives. And this was pointless. I know for a fact, they would rather live as they are now (this familiy does not speak for all of course) knowing that they are better off. Its not pointles now. The Iraqi troops are gaining in strength and numbers and will soon be able to do this on their own. I believe we will have a prensence there for a long time, just in fewer numbers. How do you give a timeline to something like this?
You aren't giving a timeline to how long it will take the Iraqi troops to gain strength and numbers. We are asking for a VERY BASIC OUTLINE of when we can begin to START bringing our troops home. I am very critical of President Bush's statements....he says that the iraqi government is doing just fine, and their country is running smoothly. Also, the Iraqi government is handling what could very possibly go down in history as the most serious trial ever....but he doesnt think that the country can support themselves yet, even though he said that. Even though you may think the Iraqis would rather live as they are now, many actually prefer life before! There have been many studies and surveys shown and the majority have said exactly what I have just stated. These people are so used to a dictatorship, that they arent used to making their own decisions, and many people are scared to do so. I dont mind if we have a presence there for a while, and as you said in FEWER NUMBERS. When do you think we should start withdrawing troops? We should have started a LONG time ago.

 

[jcrim]

You have to question WHEN Bush will feel it's proper to pull the troops out. IMO the longer we stay there and suffer losses, the weaker our military appears. Until finally, like in Vietnam, we suffer so many losses and are making no more progress so that we have to pull out.
When Bush said the war was over he was half right... there is nothing more for our troops to invade or blow up. Now they just sit there attempting to create "security" and waiting for the next suicide bomber. We will continue to suffer these types of losses a couple at a time.

 

[reefer747]

Originally Posted by jcrim
You have to question WHEN Bush will feel it's proper to pull the troops out. IMO the longer we stay there and suffer losses, the weaker our military appears. Until finally, like in Vietnam, we suffer so many losses and are making no more progress so that we have to pull out.
When Bush said the war was over he was half right... there is nothing more for our troops to invade or blow up. Now they just sit there attempting to create "security" and waiting for the next suicide bomber. We will continue to suffer these types of losses a couple at a time.
EXACTLY! Its really very sad. And, the Vietnam comment, is very sad, but all too true.

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by Reefer747
would like at least a VERY BASIC timeline for the withdrawal of troops in Iraq.
That would be nice....to tell all the terrorist who are diligently trying to tear down the "new Iraq" exactly when we will be leaving so they can wait until we are gone to just move in with ease. :notsure:

 

[farmboy]

Do you all remember when we let it "slip" about the time we were going to assault Fallujah(I think)? THe media got ALL wadded up when they found out the military used them to smoke out the insugents. We weren't going when we said we were!!

That just ran across my mind, speaking of time tables. . . . .

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by jcrim
IMO the longer we stay there and suffer losses, the weaker our military appears. Until finally, like in Vietnam, we suffer so many losses and are making no more progress so that we have to pull out.
We are not weak, and don't think we are. We could easily destroy that whole part of the world in less than an hour.
The Vietnam war was lost because of public opinion and media pressure, not because of a weak miltary....similiar to the arguments we are mulling over here. Americans need to learn when to shut up....the world is listening and waiting, afterall, and so are the terrorists. Don't we appear "weak" when 1/2 of us are always screaming "get out" and our military is weakened, etc?
The reason so many hate us is because we are at the top of the food chain. LOL Just like sharks....no one in the ocean likes sharks. Why is that?

 

[lovethesea]

Originally Posted by Beth
The reason so many hate us is because we are at the top of the food chain. LOL Just like sharks....no one in the ocean likes sharks. Why is that?