nitrate and rock help.please!!!!

[brolik1]

Some of you may know me as having high nitrates issue. I have a 20 gallon and a seaclone 100 skimmer that has been up for 4 months.
I have:
22 pounds of LR(with coralline and cured)
20 pounds of LS
1 firefish
3 feather dusters
6 conehead snails
1 nassarious snail
and 2 emerald crab
my water parameters are:
ph 8.2
nitrite 0
ammo 0
nitrate 20.
I used to have a penquin bio wheel 125 filter with nitrates of 80,but after I changed it to a aquclear 50 and a 5 galloon water change it decreased to 40,then to 10 after another 5 gallon change.but it climbed back up to 20.I took my LR and placed it in a bucket with fresh salt water and a powerhead the nitrates went up to 20.what can I do to resolve this problem?Should I brush the rock off with kent rock prep?pls help I want to add cleaner shrimp soon. :help: :help:

 

[beth]

What is the particle size of your sand? Any larger substrate or crushed coral?
What about water circulation at the bottom of the tank? Is it good?
How does your source water test before adding salt?
It may be that just adding good circulation will help the problem, since that circulation will blow through your rocks, picking up debrisis.
How well does that skimmer work for you? How often do you clean it?

 

[brolik1]

Originally Posted by Beth
What is the particle size of your sand? Any larger substrate or crushed coral?
What about water circulation at the bottom of the tank? Is it good?
How does your source water test before adding salt?
It may be that just adding good circulation will help the problem, since that circulation will blow through your rocks, picking up debrisis.
How well does that skimmer work for you? How often do you clean it?
I have fine LS, no crushed coral.my water circulation is excellent and plus I have the hydor water circulator.MY water source is excellent when I add salt.and my skimmer is working excellent.
any other info.

 

[beth]

So, does that mean that you tested your source water for nitrates before putting it in your display tank?
What water do you use? And what salt do you use? What test kits are you using? How are your animals doing?
How deep is your sand bed?
You may want to add six or so more nass snails.

 

[brolik1]

Originally Posted by Beth
So, does that mean that you tested your source water for nitrates before putting it in your display tank?
What water do you use? And what salt do you use? What test kits are you using? How are your animals doing?
How deep is your sand bed?
You may want to add six or so more nass snails.
Yes I test it before adding to the tank
I use ro water, and im not sure the name but it comes in a blue jug,I use aquarium pharmacuetical,and my animals are fine.
my sand bed is 4 inches
and I will look into purchasing more nass snails.

 

[brolik1]

do sand sifter gobies eat the good bacterias from the sand?I heard they do and when I added one to my tank thats when I noticed that the trates were spiking,but I ignored it thinking it could have been something else.
and I have feather dusters in my tank I just want to know how to feed my inhabitants.whatI do is feed my all my inhabitants the same day, I feed every other day.please let me know if what im doing is wrong.
I feed dusters marine snow and my fish and crabs and cleaner shrimp frozen spirulina brine shrimp they go crazy over it!!

 

[beth]

Yes, the goby will definitely destroy your deep sand bed. Yes, when they naturally put sand in their mouths, they destroy the natural bacteria on the sand, bacteria which is essential for a functioning deep sand system, such as you have. The constant moving around of sand will devastate the sandbed you have set up. And now that I see that you have a deep sand bed, I understand the problem. Deep sand beds must stay intact, and undisturbed by hobbyists and other sifting sea animals.
Can you remove the goby?
do sand sifter gobies eat the good bacterias from the sand? I heard they do and when I added one to my tank
Then why did you add the goby??

 

[chamic1]

How deep does the sand bed have to be before it is classified as a "deep sand bed"?

 

[brolik1]

Yes beth I didnt take out the gobie,but he died because of the high nitrates I used to have.
any more info :help:

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by chamic1
How deep does the sand bed have to be before it is classified as a "deep sand bed"?
At least 4" but 6" is much better. My tank was a dsb system. Great tank!
http://hometown.aol.com/e0406/BethSWF.html

 

[beth]

Originally Posted by brolik1
Yes beth I didnt take out the gobie,but he died because of the high nitrates I used to have.
any more info :help:

How deep is your sandbed?

 

[brolik1]

Its about 4 1/2".Im just having trouble maintaining the nitrate in my tank,I have a aquaclear 50 filter with phosphate pad and kent reef carbon.I change the phos pad every two weeks(looks real dirty).and the carbon every month,and the foam pad every 2 months.and I also have a skimmer seaclone 100 working very efficiently.
also:
do inverts affect the bio load capacity in the tank?

 

[beth]

Now that the goby is gone, your sandbed can start to stabilize. Please take care of your deep sand bed, and it will take care of you. I had zero nitrates from day one of setting up my reef tank using a deep sand bed. That filter can also be a contributing factor. Why don't you use a quality skimmer, and get rid of that filter?
There is a "do" and "don't" list for maintaining a deep sand bed. I suggest you start researching it. Use the search feature here as there have topics on it, and, also on the internet. IGNORE all the comments about the deep sand bed crashing. If you take care of it the way you should, it won't crash.

 

[brolik1]

Thanks alot beth you are a life saver!!!
I have questions on feeding the inverts and fish.
1)Is it good to feed every other day at the same time?
2)what is another good food that I can feed the fish,and emerald crabs,and cleaner shrimp that they will all enjoy?
I feed them frozen spirulina brine shrimp.

 

[beth]

Your fish food and invert food can basically be the same. Some snails, like nassarius, can use some direct meaty food feedings, many other snails need to eat diatoms and algae that forms on LR and on the glass of tanks. Nass snails & spaghetti worms, and all the worms that live in LR will be the best sand bed critters you can get. No sand dwelling wrasses, sand sifting stars, sand sifting gobies.
You can create your own food mix, which is cheaper. An example is in the FAQ. Otherwise, try to get a variety of quality foods, staying away from flakes, pellets. With the home made food mix, I used to come home from work, mix up a home made cube and then feed the fish throughout the rest of the evening, keeping the food in the fridge in between feedings. Use a turkey baster to target feed your rock, and, if you get some nasses, they will appreciate some target feeding as well. Feeding is the life of a natural system, so try and ween off any filters that have pads and media. Get a decent skimmer. There's a few places to get spaghetti worms and these guys are worth their weight in gold. Don't overload on inverts, or they will starve to death. Taking things slow is the key to setting up a thriving, self-sufficient system.
For now, lets see if you nitrates drop before adding inverts, because inverts have little tolerance for nitrates. Work on getting rid of any mechanical filters and replacing them with good pumps for circulation and a good skimmer.

 

[brolik1]

Thanks again.well I checked my nitrates again today and it is at .5-.10ppm.I already had inverts in the tank before the nitrate fluctuated so high and the only ones to make it were the 3 feather dusters,6 conehead snails,3 hermit crabs,and the firefish.I lost the sand sifter gobie and the cleaner shrimp.but im waiting 2 more weeks before adding anything else.
I thought that nas snails eat the food that falls on the sand.

 

[killergoby]

Are you using the sponge part in the filter? Some mechanical filters (such as bio-balls) raise nitrate levels. They are not porous enough to convert nitrate to gas so it stays in the tank.

 

[brolik1]

Originally Posted by killergoby
Are you using the sponge part in the filter? Some mechanical filters (such as bio-balls) raise nitrate levels. They are not porous enough to convert nitrate to gas so it stays in the tank.
Yes I am using the sponge,but I moded the aquaclear myslef.I dont use the carbon it comes with so I replace it with kent reef carbon.
I put sponge at the bottom,then the carbon, then the phosphate pad,and then the bio max.
I wonder if its the bio max that raises my nitrates because when I had the bio wheel filter my trates were at 80,but when I replaced it with the aquaclear it lowered down to 10 but its rising little at a time.Should I take out the biomax and replace it with something else?If yes what should I replace it with?
I have 22 pounds of LR and 20 pound of LS in my 20 gallon tank.

 

[killergoby]

I don't know what bio-max is, but how often do you change your carbon?
I'd never run any bio-balls, sponge, or bio-material in my reef tank. In my 75 gallon FOWLR I do because it works better with all of the food and fish waste.

 

[brolik1]

Originally Posted by killergoby
I don't know what bio-max is, but how often do you change your carbon?
I'd never run any bio-balls, sponge, or bio-material in my reef tank. In my 75 gallon FOWLR I do because it works better with all of the food and fish waste.
Well I need the sponge to eliminate the debris and particles from the tank,and I change the carbon every month.