nitrate problems....help

bergamer

bergamer

Active Member
I have a 210g with 100g sump.
170lbs of LR and 240lbs of LS
40g refuge with cheato
bubble king supermarine 200 skimmer
I do a 25% water change every 2 weeks and my nitrates easily jump up to 80ppm. I have started sugar dosing, but I would rather not keep dosing sugar.
critters:
pair of gsm clowns
bicolor psuedochromis
8"golden puffer (anthron megalaris) (I don't plan on keeping this this guy)
5" humu trigger
3" singapare angel
3" flagfin angel
5" red sea regal angel
5" blue angel in the refuge
3" stars and stripes puffer
3" blue spot puffer
3" pearlscale butterfly
any suggestions.
 
fau8

fau8

Member
First question is how what and how often are you feeding. There is a another thead in the new to hobby section entitled experiment with sugar dosing that you should look at.
What filtration are you using, if you are utilizing a wet dry, or canister its time for a complete overhall as they are pumping the nitrates back into your system.
Another thing to take into consideration is your phosphate levels from what i have read if they are higher than .3 the cheato will not grow rendering it useless in removal of nitrates.
Do you have a deep sand bed in your refugium?
Finally where are you getting your water from?
 
spanko

spanko

Active Member
IMO you have a very large bio load and a very light amount of rock. Normally we like to see 1-1.5 lbs of rock per gallon. This said what you have seems to be converting the ammonia - nitrites into nitrate alright as you don't mention those readings. I would take a look around at your filtration and see if there is any detritus accumulating anywhere, the bottom of a canister filter etc. Also how often are you changing any filter media your have, floss- pads- socks etc. If it is every two weeks with the water changes that is too long. They need to be cleaned weekly at least to remove the accumulated garbage on them. Also you may want to start a weekly water change schedule or perhaps 10% to help keep the nitrates in check.
 
kjr_trig

kjr_trig

Active Member
I hate to say it, but a little more LR may help out....In a FOWLR, I typically feel open swimming area is more important than filtration, but you don't have any huge swimmers in there (big Acanthurus Tangs or Wrasses), and you do have some HUGE waste makers, so I would say a little more LR wouldn't hurt....I have a 240 FOWLR with about 190 lbs of LR in the tank, and another 25 lbs in the fuge with the chaeto. Curious why the Blue Angel is in the fuge?? Not playing well with the other Angels? If he is out, you may be able to put some LR in the fuge.
Sounds like a great tank...Any pics?
 
bergamer

bergamer

Active Member
No mechanical filteration (no wet dry's either). I don't have a sandbed in my refuge. I do use filter socks which are changed out about every 3-4 days (depending on when they begin to overflow). I get my water from my RO/DI unit.
Interestingly, I have noticed that my cheato really hasn't grown lately and I have a large bloom of hair algea.
I do large feedings every other day and feed the fish daily a nice pinch of spiralina.
As for the Blue Angel, I am trying to sell him because he terrorized my singapore angel.
 
prime311

prime311

Active Member
YYou have a few options:
1. More Live Rock
2. Better skimmer(or additional one)
3. Remote Deep Sand Bed
4. Denitrifier
Thats just to name a few.
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Your nitrates are not at a dangerous level for fish, but will start helping algae & diatom problems. I've started using SeaChem Matrix; which is some sort of rock, I'm not sure just what. Its not limestone and SeaChem won't tell me. The stuff is light gray, smooth (suggesting water origin) and very porous and light. It's seems to be starting to work very well. Its sort or a LR rubble substitute and you really need to follow the directions. They produce this in different pebble sizes, depending on flow required. Smaller pebbles are sold as SeaChem De-nitrate. It appears to be a totally natural product; does anyone know what it is? Maybe some sort of volcanic rock? Its nothing like the lave rock I'm familiar with.
 
kjr_trig

kjr_trig

Active Member
Originally Posted by srfisher17
http:///forum/post/2745259
Your nitrates are not at a dangerous level for fish, but will start helping algae & diatom problems. I've started using SeaChem Matrix; which is some sort of rock, I'm not sure just what. Its not limestone and SeaChem won't tell me. The stuff is light gray, smooth (suggesting water origin) and very porous and light. It's seems to be starting to work very well. Its sort or a LR rubble substitute and you really need to follow the directions. They produce this in different pebble sizes, depending on flow required. Smaller pebbles are sold as SeaChem De-nitrate. It appears to be a totally natural product; does anyone know what it is? Maybe some sort of volcanic rock? Its nothing like the lave rock I'm familiar with.
VERY INTERESTING....Do you have some stats as to how it has affected whichever tank you are using it in? Do you have it in the sump I assume?
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Spent the last couple of minutes looking up De*Nitrate. Straight from the horse's mouth (on another board where they're a sponsor), "the sole purpose of De*Nitrate is to provide a place for anaerboic bacteria."
With some the prerequirements, heavy prefilters and a suggested flow rate not excessiving 50gph, my best guess is their pretty much making an inefficent denitrator.
No idea what the actual material is though...
 
bergamer

bergamer

Active Member
Originally Posted by prime311
http:///forum/post/2745124
YYou have a few options:
1. More Live Rock
2. Better skimmer(or additional one)
3. Remote Deep Sand Bed
4. Denitrifier
Thats just to name a few.
I was thinking of getting a denitrator from Midwest Aquatics, I have been researching it.
as for a skimmer, I have the best! and it is no where near capacity
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
Originally Posted by kjr_trig
http:///forum/post/2745267
VERY INTERESTING....Do you have some stats as to how it has affected whichever tank you are using it in? Do you have it in the sump I assume?
I've been using about 3L of Matrix (actually Pond Matrix), the same stuff as de-nirate, but bigger pieces; and you can use more flow for about 6 weeks in my 240, no LR, skeletal coral tank. SeaChem suggests the pond Matrix for use with my wet/dry system. The anaerobic bacteria are really starting to work. Nitrate has dropped from about 80 ppm to about 40 in the last 4 weeks. I didn't do a water change during this time. I was doing sugar dosing in my 55 no LR retro tank; but something about it makes me nervous, even though I'm convinced it works. I'll start reg. Matrix in this tank too.Just looking at this stuff, knowing how LR works and the requirements for anaerobic bacteria; it just seems like a natural. LR removes nitrates because of its deep porous structure; not because it happens to be a marine product. the only real difference between LR and limestone is where it comes from and Carib-Sea is now aquaculturing LR from mined limestone. Matrix seems even more porous than limestone to me. When new, much of it actually floats.
 
fau8

fau8

Member
adding the deep sand bed to your refugium will serve as the the denitrator. You will need at least 4 inches of sand. I have used a denitrator on my first tank and they are not without their own problems and require adjustment and maintainance. The refugium with the sand bed is maintainance free with the exception of pruning the cheato. On that note please test for phosphates you will probally find then less than ideal and should invest in a phosphate reactor. They are inexpensive and have worked for me.
 
srfisher17

srfisher17

Active Member
[QUOTE=fau8;2745578 On that note please test for phosphates you will probally find then less than ideal and should invest in a phosphate reactor. They are inexpensive and have worked for me.
I agree; -phosphates and high nitrates are often found together. A reactor works great; but in most tanks, just using a phosphate removal product in a media bag, somewhere in the flow works just fine. Most products are just ferric hydroxide; but I prefer SeaChem's PhosBan. Its cheaper, cleaner, stays active longer, and also removes silicates. (So does ferric hydroxide.)
 
bergamer

bergamer

Active Member
So I was making some nsw and decided to test it for nitrates and it came back at 40ppm. I don't think it was the water or salt, I bet the test kit has gone bad. I am going to purchase a new test kit today and retest.
I did test the tank for ammonia and nitrite and was 0ppm
 
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