Nitrate Question

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weatherby

Guest
Wasn't sure where to put this so figured this would be as good a spot as any other...

Ok, over this past weekend I did a major water change on my 55Gal. I took out right around 33 Gal of old water and replaced it with 36+hr aged new water which I tested and the nitrates were non-existent in the holding tub. After refilling the 55g, I let the water settle and the filters run until it was clear and then started testing to see if salinity and temp were correct still. After this I tested to see if my nitrates had come down and, while they'd dropped SOME, they were still near 190!!
Now, I also changed out 8 or 9 gallons on my 12g Nano Cube at the same time and it's nitrates are also still ridiculously high still!
Anyone have any idea why a massive water change wouldn't bring nitrates WAY down? Is my sand and live rock THAT filthy?
 

al mc

Active Member
Originally Posted by Weatherby
http:///forum/post/2458188
Is my sand and live rock THAT filthy?

Probably. How old are the tanks? Sand versus crushed coral? How much rock? Type of filtration and skimmer? How many/what size fish? All these can be part of the issue(s) too.
 

lexluethar

Active Member
You tested for nitrates in the new water, but did you test for ammonia/nitrite. There could be very high levels of those in your new water, then once you've placed it in your tank they convert to nitrates.
And i've noticed that right after a water change my nitrates don't go down. Usually after a 24 hours period i test again and they drop significantly. I don't know why this is, just something i've encountered a lot.
 

larrynews

Active Member
if i remember right nitrates take a while to come down, once i killed a lot of hair algae in my tank and my nitrates spike to the orange color on the test card and it took 5 or 6 months of water changes for it to come down.
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by Al Mc
http:///forum/post/2458243
Probably. How old are the tanks? Sand versus crushed coral? How much rock? Type of filtration and skimmer? How many/what size fish? All these can be part of the issue(s) too.
The 55 is 15 months in my possession and a couple of years in another person's. A good 30 gallons of water came with the tank so it was like a water change when we put it back up.. (No livestock, rock and .5" sand at that point). Now, there's nearly 100lbs of live rock and 4-5" of live sand.
Filtration is one of the penguine type hob filters, a skilter setup as a filter, (using the skimmer part just to airate the water bascially), and an old magnum 350 with live rock only in it. For a skimmer I'm running a Seaclone 150.
Livestock wise:
A small volitan (yes, she's small still)
a very small yellow tang (just added)
a small hardwicky Wrass
a medium bird wrass
a medium bangaii cardinal
a sm-md 3stripe damsel
a medium-largish dragon gobby
a medium coral beauty
and a sm-md pink tail trigger.
I know I'm in need of some more cleanup crew. At the moment there's a stray hermit crab or 2 left, a fighting conch, a sand sifting cucumber, a large yellow brittle star, a medium black brittle star, a sm-md green brittle star, and a skunk cleaner shrimp, (maybe 2, haven't seen the second one in awhile but they hide well). Also have a black spiny urchin and a pencil urchin. The only non-mobile occupants at the moment are a pair of tube anemones.
Feeding for most of the residents is every other night, the volitan gets a couple very small silver sides every 3 days or so.
I suspect the nitrate problem is inherited as the sand came from a dirty 120, same with the rock. The 55 originally housed some silly large/dirty animals for its original owner, (think he had a lamprey and some sort of shark in it for instance).
The Nano Cube has one small false perc, (all it can sustain is one small fish at a time.).
Also the tank houses a very small pink "bubble tip" brittle star, a smallish red serpent star, a orange flame scallop, a cleaner clam, an orange Medusa worm, like 3 conical snails, an unidentified snail, (long white shell with red spots). Also there is a medium-to-large LTA and a purple tipped anemone that I haven't gotten a positive id on yet as well.
This tank is primarily a coral holding tank while I prep my new 57Gal column. As far as corals go: A medium sized white bubble coral, a small fragg of black sun coral, a handful of watermelon mushrooms, a pair of blue mushrooms, a lavender with brown "polyps" gorgonian, and my most recent possession and my prize coral: a Duncan fragg with 6 heads.
This tank has a good inch and a half or more of sand in it but only has a few small pieces of live rock. Most of the filtration in it is bags of medium that's grown into biological filters. The sand bed and live rock, (as well as the skeletal structure of the hard corals) is just infested with bristle worms and baby brittle/serpent stars. I'm not real sure on the 'pod' population anymore, but I know it used to be quite high. This tank doesn't get as frequent water changes as it should, but it gets them more often than the 55 still. Also, there seems to be a disturbingly large population of very small conical shaped snails which I don't believe are the samel kind as the algae eating ones I introduced. I believe these smaller ones are the parasitic type that have been known to do in large decorative clams.
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by LexLuethar
http:///forum/post/2458272
You tested for nitrates in the new water, but did you test for ammonia/nitrite. There could be very high levels of those in your new water, then once you've placed it in your tank they convert to nitrates.
And i've noticed that right after a water change my nitrates don't go down. Usually after a 24 hours period i test again and they drop significantly. I don't know why this is, just something i've encountered a lot.
I tested the water for nitrates and nitrite and even conditioned it with some Prime just in case there were any nitrites/ammonia in the water. I'd bet the level of phosphates in the water is truly frightening though..

Though, come to think of it, neither tank has any algae in it anymore.... The nano used to have a serious hair algae problem, (entire back wall was covered), and the 55g had it's share of algae as well... but neither have any currently..., 55 not sure why... the nano I had a small sea hare (less than 1", green underside) in there for awhile as well as algae eating snails..
 

granny

Member
Ok lets think about this. Could the test kit be wrong??? Are you by any chance using the wrong color card to check it or using the wrong media to test?
Scallops, stars and clams are very sensitibe to high nitrate levels as are your corals/anemone. If they are ok, then your nitrates probably are not that high.
Yes, deep sand beds can definitely contribute to high nitrate levels as they have so many anaerobic areas. You need to stir your sand bed up before you do your water changes. Also, I used to run my tank with a magnum and what you have to watch out for is that is is a closed environment. two negative issues withthat.
The more oxygen, the more aerobic -good- bacteria you can sustain and the other issue is your filter media can get clogged with detritus which builds up your nitrate levels. You need to keep teh filter media scrupulously clean.
When you get themoney, I would also add a larger, more efficitne skimmer
My LFS showed me a brand new model the other day that is awesome for one that hangs on your tank. It has an overflow that empties into a bucket and it is only $110 retail. However, I cannot remember the name of it (old age)
 

alex4286

Member
are you using testing 'strips'?? if you are, STOP. Buy a nice kit.
how often do you replace your filters & clean them out?
How often do u do water changes?
Also it looks to me as if you lack snails/crabs that help clean up LR LS etc. (helps keeps nitrates down) Do you have a fuge? growing micro algae also helps reduce nitrates such as cheato. Hope some of this helps!
 

drtash

Member
The expert at my lfs told me a story that a girl had. Just like your problem, the high nitrates. He actuallty linked it to the instant ocean. Called the company and had some recalled.
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by drtash
http:///forum/post/2458889
The expert at my lfs told me a story that a girl had. Just like your problem, the high nitrates. He actually linked it to the instant ocean. Called the company and had some recalled.
Really?!?!?
As it happens I bought a bucket of Instant Ocean salt awhile back and have been using it up slowly but surly.... But then, I've always used IO salt as it's really the only kind reliably available around here. The LFS I bought this pale at also carries other brands including SeaChem, RedSea and some others, but as I had been using IO I figured it best to stick with what I was currently using...
Is there any information on this recall or 'bad batch' online? I wonder if this bucket of salt is part of the problem...
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by Alex4286
http:///forum/post/2458884
are you using testing 'strips'?? if you are, STOP. Buy a nice kit.
how often do you replace your filters & clean them out?
How often do u do water changes?
Also it looks to me as if you lack snails/crabs that help clean up LR LS etc. (helps keeps nitrates down) Do you have a fuge? growing micro algae also helps reduce nitrates such as cheato. Hope some of this helps!
Yes, I have to admit to using strips to test. While they're not Salifert quality I've seen evidence to believe at least the nitrate and ph portions to be within reason... some tests I've done showed it to be about +10 over on nitrates compared to a proper test kit... But that's neither here nor there as I agree that I need a proper kit...

As for the rest, the filters get replaced probably once a month or so, my magnum has only live rock rubble in it at the moment. The skilter has a mixture of Seachem Nitraban & Purigin. (I'll have to double check the name of the nitrate reducer/bio filter media but I thought it was nitraban), which gets replaced usually as I see the purigin change color but sometimes as infrequently as monthly. The HOB Penguine style filter has some cotton pads and sponges as well as packets of purigin & phoszorb. Same on those, usually monthly or there abouts.
Water changes come as close to monthly on the 55 as I can get with work and having no place to store large amounts of fresh salt water.... On the 12g I'd like to say I do them every other week, but those are probably monthly as well.
Yeah, I'm going to have to stop by the LFS I got the bucket of salt at and pick up some hermits on payday. Last time I put snails in this tank they got eaten by my hermits...
Thanks for all the useful suggestions/input everyone!
 
W

weatherby

Guest
Originally Posted by TangWhispr
http:///forum/post/2459036
are you using RO/DI water? or tap?
Was using DI water but the resin has gone south. Need to get to one of the LFS and snag a replacement. The coloration of the tank water had gotten so yellow that I decided tap water was worth the risk to get some fresh water in to the systems.
I checked the water for levels of nitrite and nitrate prior to starting the water mixing and they're 0 and 0. While I have no way to test for phosphates currently, I'm sure there is some in the water around here so it wouldn't surprise me to find out that was part of the problem. However, as I mentioned, there doesn't seem to be any hair algae growing in either tank... hell even the cyano has dyed off in the 55. I'm wondering if my test media is bad. As someone said earlier, mt LTA and corals wouldn't be as healthy as they are if the nitrates really were 190+...
 

tangwhispr

Member
Originally Posted by Weatherby
http:///forum/post/2459093
Was using DI water but the resin has gone south. Need to get to one of the LFS and snag a replacement. The coloration of the tank water had gotten so yellow that I decided tap water was worth the risk to get some fresh water in to the systems.
I checked the water for levels of nitrite and nitrate prior to starting the water mixing and they're 0 and 0. While I have no way to test for phosphates currently, I'm sure there is some in the water around here so it wouldn't surprise me to find out that was part of the problem. However, as I mentioned, there doesn't seem to be any hair algae growing in either tank... hell even the cyano has dyed off in the 55. I'm wondering if my test media is bad. As someone said earlier, mt LTA and corals wouldn't be as healthy as they are if the nitrates really were 190+...

Don't waste your money..buy a refillable cartridge, and buy DI in bulk, you can get a cartridge & 5# resin for the price you'll pay for a single use cartridge
 

fishfry101

Member
Have you taken a water sample to your lfs to be tested? you may want to try that as well to see if your kit is accurate or not.
 
I had the same problem and i went and bought some cheato (sp) and it cleared it up in about a week and haven't had any problems since!
 

big

Active Member
Do not know if this will help, but here is one of my nitrate post from a while back..... Good Luck fixing yours......... Warren
Like many, too high nitrates are a serious issue.
First thing one always should ask, is "are you feeding too much", try first cutting you feeding in half, they will not starve. What is your bio-fish load, is it too high?? Is there ANYTHING too dirty in the system that could be causing it???. I at one time had too many larger fishes ( they had grown too much) which made controlling nitrates a difficult issue. The few secrets for me where an smaller bio-load of fish and a large refugium containing lots of Chaetomorpha (Chaeto), also more frequent partial changes.
I think the one big thing for me really was the Chaeto. It works like a nitrate magnet for removing it, when used properly. I do realize in a smaller system like a cube, having a refugium may be hard to do or set up, but I think any size fuge is better than nothing.
 
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