Nitrate Reduction & New Products

[orlin]

Hello, everone!
First, I'm new to the site and I'm hoping to be posting this under the correct forum.
Second, although I have been in this hobby for several years, I still consider myself a "noob" because I have a modest set-up, with limited time able to devote to it and hopefully hardy tank inhabitants with minimal requirements.
My challenge over time has been in keeping the nitrate levels consistently down. It is currently at 40.
I know and have gathered from previous threads, that there is no substitute for frequent partial water changes - the best natural method for nitrate reduction. Also, I've read recommendations for use of RO systems, which currently I can't afford.
With much respect for the professionals on this site, I would still like to ask if there has been any advances in "quick-fix" technologies. I would like know and get recommendations about the tested efficacy of products like BioFuel, AZ-NO3, Instant Ocean's Nitrate Reducer, and similar products out on the market. Thank you.

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlin http:///t/391021/nitrate-reduction-new-products#post_3465660
Hello, everone!
First, I'm new to the site and I'm hoping to be posting this under the correct forum.
Second, although I have been in this hobby for several years, I still consider myself a "noob" because I have a modest set-up, with limited time able to devote to it and hopefully hardy tank inhabitants with minimal requirements.
My challenge over time has been in keeping the nitrate levels consistently down. It is currently at 40.
I know and have gathered from previous threads, that there is no substitute for frequent partial water changes - the best natural method for nitrate reduction. Also, I've read recommendations for use of RO systems, which currently I can't afford.
With much respect for the professionals on this site, I would still like to ask if there has been any advances in "quick-fix" technologies. I would like know and get recommendations about the tested efficacy of products like BioFuel, AZ-NO3, Instant Ocean's Nitrate Reducer, and similar products out on the market. Thank you.
Welcome to the site!
Firstly, can you tell us a little bit about your setup? How old? What size? How much rock? What type of substrate? What kind of fish and how many? What does your cleaner crew look like? Do you have a sump? What's in it? Etc
What test kit are you using to test your nitrates? What do the rest of your parameters look like?
In my opinion, the Nitrate Reducing products that are available on the market are nothing more than snake oil. None of them work and you're wasting your money.
If you can't afford a RO unit, try just purchasing RO water from your local WalMart, most have it available for only a few cents per gallon.
Do you run any sort of carbon in your system? This can cut down on nitrates.
Have you considered, or do you have room for a refugium? Even a small one can cut down on nitrates as well.
Knowing the size of your tank will help with some other suggestions as well.

 

[beaslbob]

IME the best way to control nitrates is to simply increase the nitrate consumers.
I use algae like various macros.
they have the advantage of also consuming phosphates and carbon dioxide while returning oxygen and fish food. They also bioaccumulate nasties like copper for export by harventing.
Additionally they actually prefer to consume ammonia over nitrates preventing dangerous spikes and possibly preventing system crashes. A side effect to that is there can be an initial nitrates spike until bacteria build up and consume the ammonia. But overall the system is more stable and forgiving of system shocks.
my .02

 

[orlin]

Thanks for your prompt responses. To answer your questions:
My set-up is the Red Sea Max (All-In-One) Nano Cube; 2-3 inches of Aragonite crush coral/sand, aquascaped with live rock (no sure how many lbs); approx 28-29 gallons of water (tank is 30 gal); fish include 1 butterfly, 3 tomato clowns, 1 damsel; inverts include 1 green carpet & 1 long tentacle anemone; 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 hermit, 1 emerald crab, 3 turbo snails.
No sump or room for a refugium, the stand does not accommodate any additional equipment/systems. Not using any carbon at the moment, but the nano cub does have a compartment to house bags of carbon, resins, etc. however right above it is where the 2 pumps are located, so if the bags become clogged with debris, the water flow throughout the tank is impacted. The tank itself (where the filter, skimmer, pumps are located) is a pain to clean and maintain - it is probably the reason why the nitrates are high, because it is very time consuming and I don't get to clean it thoroughly that often. I've had this set-up now for 2.5 years.
The reason why I decided to go with an "all-in-one" nano cube was that at one time I had the traditional tank w/sump setup, the electricity went out and before I knew it there was an overflow in the sump that destroyed my wooden flooring. Ouch!
I have tried to find intank macro algae like caulerpa, unfortunately whenver any of my local shops brings them infrequently, someone beats me too it.

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlin http:///t/391021/nitrate-reduction-new-products#post_3465698
Thanks for your prompt responses. To answer your questions:
My set-up is the Red Sea Max (All-In-One) Nano Cube; 2-3 inches of Aragonite crush coral/sand, aquascaped with live rock (no sure how many lbs); approx 28-29 gallons of water (tank is 30 gal); fish include 1 butterfly, 3 tomato clowns, 1 damsel; inverts include 1 green carpet & 1 long tentacle anemone; 1 coral banded shrimp, 1 hermit, 1 emerald crab, 3 turbo snails. Here alone could be your issue. You don't have a large enough CUC and you really don't have the best fish for your setup. 3 Tomato clowns in a 30 is 3 too many in my opinion. The butterfly also doesn't belong in there. These 4 fish are going to make keeping your nitrate issue under control very difficult.
No sump or room for a refugium, You technically have a built in sump with this model tank and there are people that do refugium mods in the back chambers, something worth at least looking into the stand does not accommodate any additional equipment/systems. Not using any carbon at the moment, but the nano cub does have a compartment to house bags of carbon, resins, etc. however right above it is where the 2 pumps are located, so if the bags become clogged with debris, the water flow throughout the tank is impacted. If you're changing the bags every two weeks, which is what is recommended with carbon, there shouldn't be enough time to really build up with debris, unless you're really heavily over feeding the tank. The tank itself (where the filter, skimmer, pumps are located) is a pain to clean and maintain - it is probably the reason why the nitrates are high, because it is very time consuming and I don't get to clean it thoroughly that often. I've had this set-up now for 2.5 years. Less food, proper stock list, more clean up crew and this won't be as much of a pain.
The reason why I decided to go with an "all-in-one" nano cube was that at one time I had the traditional tank w/sump setup, the electricity went out and before I knew it there was an overflow in the sump that destroyed my wooden flooring. Ouch! There are ways to avoid this. Don't let that scare you off. A simple drilled hole in your return pump line will keep this from happening and many people over look it.
I have tried to find intank macro algae like caulerpa, unfortunately whenver any of my local shops brings them infrequently, someone beats me too it.

Have you tried online? There is a site that ships quickly and is cheap if you're interested, especially since you live in FL.

 

[orlin]

Aha! Wish I had a guide at the time that would have informed me about the right stock for a 30 gal. size tank. I hope in the future books come out instructing us novices about these matters with regards to small nano cubes & tanks.
Not sure how you would set up a refugium on the back side of my unit. I thought the plants would need a source of light and when the lid is closed, those back chambers are completely dark. However, I am going to consider ordering online a small clump of macro algae to place inside the tank and see what results this gets me. Any suggestions on what kind?
How many more of the clean up crew should I get?
One clarification I'd like to make...I don't overfeed my tank. My usual feeding dose for all my tank inhabitants is one frozen cube of Spirulina brineshrimp every 2 days. Sometimes I'll substitute with a couple of pinches of marine flakes (just to add variety). I don't specifically feed my two anemones as I was told they mainly get their nutrition from the lightsource and they appear to be thriving very well (except when nitrate levels get high and then they close a bit, but a water change perks them up again).
If and when I can dedicate more time to my hobby, I will seriously consider going back to the traditional tank with sump & refugium setup; but this time it will be a 55 gal tank.

Thank you for your expert comments and suggestions. Keep them coming!

 

[btldreef]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlin http:///t/391021/nitrate-reduction-new-products#post_3465720
Aha! Wish I had a guide at the time that would have informed me about the right stock for a 30 gal. size tank. I hope in the future books come out instructing us novices about these matters with regards to small nano cubes & tanks. Many books and sites will tell you what size tank is required for certain fish. The Pocket Expert Guide books are especially handy. Scott Michael's Marine Fishes and his Reef Aquarium Fishes are great books that will tell you size requirements for each fish, as well as how large they will get. Marine Invertebrates by Ronald Shimek is another great book in the Pocket Expert Guide series. I highly recommend all three books.
I really do recommend removing at least one of the clowns and the butterfly.
Not sure how you would set up a refugium on the back side of my unit. I thought the plants would need a source of light and when the lid is closed, those back chambers are completely dark. It has been done. There are submersible lights, etc. You'd have to google it as I'm not exactly sure how to do it with your model, but people mod a lot of things on nano tanks and creating a refugium is a very common mod. However, I am going to consider ordering online a small clump of macro algae to place inside the tank and see what results this gets. Any suggestions on what kind? I would stick with something that isn't going to be too invasive. Caulerpa's are all fast growers and really need to be trimmed regularly or they'll get out of hand. I happen to love grape caulerpa, but I constantly have to harvest it.
You might want to try gracilaria. It's a slower grower, so doesn't need to be pruned as often and will also add some color to the tank.
How many more of the clean up crew should I get? A lot. I'd get at least 10 Nassarius snails, 10 Trochus snails and 10 Astrea snails. You might want to also consider a few Cerith snails. Personally, I am not a fan of hermits. They kill snails for fun and IMO, snails are better cleaners. I don't like Turbo snails because they tend to knock things over as they get larger, especially in nano tanks.
One clarification I'd like to make...I don't overfeed my tank. My usual feeding dose for all my tank inhabitants is one frozen cube of Spirulina brineshrimp every 2 days. Sometimes I'll substitute with a couple of pinches of marine flakes (just to add variety). Brine shrimp is not the greatest, not is marine flakes. I'd venture a guess that the marine flakes are actually adding to your nitrate issues. IMO, brine and flake food is like feeding your fish potato chips, it'll fill them up, but nutritionally isn't don't much for them, and is just letting them poop all over your tank and create waste that turns to nitrates. Look into Mysis shrimp which is much more nutritious and also look for Emerald Entree (made by Sallie's San Francisco Bay Brand) I don't specifically feed my two anemones as I was told they mainly get their nutrition from the lightsource and they appear to be thriving very well (except when nitrate levels get high and then they close a bit, but a water change perks them up again). Light is they're main thing, but they'll also catch some of the food that you're feeding your fish. In a nano, I would not target feed the anemones either.
If and when I can dedicate more time to my hobby, I will seriously consider going back to the traditional tank with sump & refugium setup; but this time it will be a 55 gal tank.

Go with a 75 or a 40 Breeder. Both are wider tanks and offer a much better tank for a reef setup.
Thank you for your expert comments and suggestions. Keep them coming!

 

[geoj]

IME the best way to control nitrates is to simply increase the nitrate consumers.

I use algae like various macros.

they have the advantage of also consuming phosphates and carbon dioxide while returning oxygen and fish food. They also bioaccumulate nasties like copper for export by harventing.

Additionally they actually prefer to consume ammonia over nitrates preventing dangerous spikes and possibly preventing system crashes. A side effect to that is there can be an initial nitrates spike until bacteria build up and consume the ammonia. But overall the system is more stable and forgiving of system shocks.

my .02
+1
You can go Marine Planted Tank there are lots to pick from and the tanks can rival reefs in beauty

 

[beaslbob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJ http:///t/391021/nitrate-reduction-new-products#post_3465759
+1
You can go Marine Planted Tank there are lots to pick from and the tanks can rival reefs in beauty
Obviously I agree also.
1) swf does sell some macros.
2) on line also google macro agae.
3) best of all is local hobbiests. they are probably tossing some in the trash every month.
best tank ever.
my .02