No choice but to hypo display with live rock

[mk4fan]

Took out corals and most of inverts i could catch, snails, hermits. Tank is 125 gallon with about 200 lbs. of live rock.
Currently tank is at 1.016, fish seem more active now. I know once i hit 1.009 i'm going to get die off.
Should i dose amquel before or after 1.009. Or once i hit 1.009 do large water change?
Thanks for your advice,
Steven

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by mk4fan
Took out corals and most of inverts i could catch, snails, hermits. Tank is 125 gallon with about 200 lbs. of live rock.
Currently tank is at 1.016, fish seem more active now. I know once i hit 1.009 i'm going to get die off.
Should i dose amquel before or after 1.009. Or once i hit 1.009 do large water change?
Thanks for your advice,
Steven
Go to the store and get a couple of rubbermaid tubs. Pull that rock out of there. Why would you want to make 200lbs of base rock? Get that rock out of there. Add it to the tubs with a small powerhead and heater. Slowly bring the SG back up on the rock once it is in the tubs.

 

[mk4fan]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
Go to the store and get a couple of rubbermaid tubs. Pull that rock out of there. Why would you want to make 200lbs of base rock? Get that rock out of there. Add it to the tubs with a small powerhead and heater. Slowly bring the SG back up on the rock once it is in the tubs.
Thanks for the advice but like i said i have no choice and already started the hypo process to the display. If i was able to purchase the rubbermaid tubs and pull the rock out don't you think i would have done that already?
I'm already driving my wife crazy with this hobby and we live in a small apartment plus the fact that she just gave birth to my son is one of the reasons i don't want to have rubbermaid tubs lying around the living room among the crib, pack and play, and other baby things.
So please stick to the topic, i already know what i should have done.
Thanks.

 

[earlybird]

Originally Posted by mk4fan
Thanks for the advice but like i said i have no choice and already started the hypo process to the display. If i was able to purchase the rubbermaid tubs and pull the rock out don't you think i would have done that already?
I'm already driving my wife crazy with this hobby and we live in a small apartment plus the fact that she just gave birth to my son is one of the reasons i don't want to have rubbermaid tubs lying around the living room among the crib, pack and play, and other baby things.
So please stick to the topic, i already know what i should have done.
Thanks.
Okay well sticking to the topic. Good luck. You're going to need to have rubbermaid bins around filled with mixing salt water. The amount of dieoff on your rocks will be huge as you lower the salinity. You'll need to make sure that ammonia dosen't go above 0.5 (to be safe) as you then run the risk of killing the nitrifying bacteria.

 

[mk4fan]

Originally Posted by earlybird
Okay well sticking to the topic. Good luck. You're going to need to have rubbermaid bins around filled with mixing salt water. The amount of dieoff on your rocks will be huge as you lower the salinity. You'll need to make sure that ammonia dosen't go above 0.5 (to be safe) as you then run the risk of killing the nitrifying bacteria.
Thanks for the advice, will make sure to monitor ammonia.

 

[1boatnut]

I don't know how much live rock you have but MAYBE it won't be too bad. I did hypo on my 29 gal and left the rock in. I never got any spikes

You will get die-off,but my understanding is that hypo does not kill off the bacteria.
I did notice,and maybe it has nothing to do with hypo,but my rock turned florescent green. I THINK

maybe it has something to do with the algae and the hypo combined.
Good luck !
P.S ,,,,125 in a small apartment with a baby,your wife is a Saint

oops,didn't see the 200lbs

 

[dinogeorge]

You might have some die off, but the bacteria within your rock will probably take care of it. If you have a lot of algae on the rocks, you might see that die off rather quickly. If so, you'll see a rise in Nitrate. Just make a couple of water changes, making sure of coarse that your replacement water is .09. Also, if you have a skimmer you will need to adjust it to increase the water flow. The lower salanity will effect how protiens adhear to the bubbles, and so you need to increase the flow in order to remove them.
Also, make sure to check your PH. It will be very low unless you add buffer.
I had to hypo my 125 and it was filled with LR. I never had a spike and my fish were fine. I suspect yours will be too.
Good luck man.

 

[beth]

mk, you are new here, so let me welcome you to the site.
Saying that, let me assure you that advise given here is meant to only help, not hurt you. I'm sure you are under a great deal of pressure, but laying attitude on someone trying to give you sound advise is not the way to go here. Most hobbyists are not going to give you advise when you tell them that you don't want to hear it.
In situations like this, you kinda are left to your own devices. If it were me, and I could not set up rubbermaids, I would asked the LFS to take the live rock temporary. It makes no sense to destroy all the (expensive) live rock you have. The die off will be tremendous and will likely crash your system anyway.
If you don't want to listen to good advise, or suggestions, then hobby forums are not the best place for you. In any case, rudeness is uncalled for.

 

[rudedog40]

The guy is frustrated because he is seeing around $1000 of LR go down the tube. I'd get a little curt myself. His biggest problem was jumping on the hypo bandwagon without looking at alternatives. Unfortunately, he's past the point of no return, unless he wants to raise his SG back up and try using the same method I did. It just depends how bad the ich (which I'm assuming he's doing the hypo in the first place) is, and how many fish are infected. Before continuing, you may want to ask yourself, what's more expensive to replace - 200 lbs. of LR, or the 4 or 5 fish you're trying to save? If you don't have adequate water to change due to the major ammonia spike you will have (Amquel may help), you may end up losing all the fish anyway. Step back, reassess, and let us know how it's going.

 

[mk4fan]

Originally Posted by Beth
If you don't want to listen to good advise, or suggestions, then hobby forums are not the best place for you. In any case, rudeness is uncalled for.
Rude are you kidding me, did i not thank him for his advice?
This is what he said to me "Why would you want to make 200lbs of base rock?" I don't want to make 200 lbs of base rock but like my thread topic indicates i have no choice. I think its rude of him to respond the way he did knowing that i clearly stated that this is my only option.
I am aware i am killing my rock, but live rock can be re-seeded, finding and replacing rare angels and rare fairy wrasses is not so easy to do and more costly than replacing 200 lbs of live rock.
I've been speaking to many people today that actually did hypo on their display tank and i am feeling confident that i shouldn't have any problems.
Thank you to those that provided me advice, i greatly appreciate it.

 

[sepulatian]

MK4fan, I appologize if you saw what I wrote as rude. It certainly was not intended to be. I still do not quite see why you would risk killing that much rock rather than just setting up some tubs for a few weeks, but if you are confident that it will all be okay then I wish you luck with it all.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by mk4fan
Rude are you kidding me, did i not thank him for his advice?
This is what he said to me "Why would you want to make 200lbs of base rock?" I don't want to make 200 lbs of base rock but like my thread topic indicates i have no choice. I think its rude of him to respond the way he did knowing that i clearly stated that this is my only option.
I am aware i am killing my rock, but live rock can be re-seeded, finding and replacing rare angels and rare fairy wrasses is not so easy to do and more costly than replacing 200 lbs of live rock.
I've been speaking to many people today that actually did hypo on their display tank and i am feeling confident that i shouldn't have any problems.
Thank you to those that provided me advice, i greatly appreciate it.

I totally agree with you. And as you've just stated, it appears your fish are more important to you than the rock. Good luck on the hypo treatment and keep us updated on the progress and the outcome. I'm very curious myself how it will turn out as to whether your LR survived or not.

 

[renogaw]

btw sep is a she

 

[1boatnut]

Originally Posted by mk4fan
Should i dose amquel before or after 1.009. Or once i hit 1.009 do large water change?
Thanks for your advice,
Steven

I think I would just keep an eye on your parameters before adding amquel or doing the water change.
I will warn you of one thing though.You have a very large tank and it is going to take ALOT of water to drop it to 1.09
In my 29 it took almost 24 gals before I hit the 1.09 mark,unless I did something wrong

What was your SA before you started dropping it?

 

[beth]

The concept of devastating a reef ecosystem to save the fish just doesn't add up to many hobbyists. However, you've chosen the course and I can see it was a difficult choice.
I have done some very rudimentary experiments on exposing live rock to hypo-saline conditions. While the die-off is massive, it is not complete, and many hardier organisms survive. My feeling is that in a reef tank, much more is needed then the survival of some hearty species. The biodiversity brought in by live rock is an essential component of maintaining a viable reef.
Also, since you have rare fish, that are obviously quite expensive, and you maintain a reef tank, the need for a quarantine tank is pretty clear, otherwise you will experience this awful scenario again and again. Ich will always be a factor for hobbyists who keep fish. I'm sure you agree that hypo-ing your reef every time you introduce ich into your tank is not a good option.
What are you using to measure salinity?
I'd suggest maintaining a pH of 8.0, even 7.9. Ammonia is more toxic at higher pH levels.

 

[tiberius]

I just hope you come back and state how things are going and give us updates. I am sure there are plenty of people out there that just have 1 tank too. I read that someone else had success with hypoing a live rock tank.

 

[mie]

Not worth the risk to hypo all that live rock. Also someone saying they have no choice can be greatly mistaken, especially if you are a new hobbyist many of us here have discovered new affordable easy methods of running our systems from the help of everybody on here. good luck.

 

[mk4fan]

I knew this was not a good idea but was my only option. I knew i would not be able to set up a qt large enough and also have it cycled and ready to handle the bioload.
My first week of hypo, lost 3 fish, battling ammonia problems and my rock looks very bad, no more coraline, some type of algae grow has taking over.
Very difficult time for me, remaining fish seem to be doing very well and holding up. Not sure if i lost fish due to ich or ammonia, little of both.
Again, i wish i did not do this because like everyone knew and mention, i would lose the rocks but i did not expect this much of a die off in my rocks. Tank has been cloudy for 3 days now and i'm sucking out dead bristleworms, etc.....
Really dissapointing, frustrating and sad. Will keep you all posted.

 

[sepulatian]

I am so sorry mk4fan. How far into it are you now? Are you still getting ammonia readings?

 

[mk4fan]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
I am so sorry mk4fan. How far into it are you now? Are you still getting ammonia readings?
Thanks Sep, only first week of hypo
Some of the fish got worst after 3rd day and eventually perished.
I am showing 0.2 ammonia using the instant ocean test right now. Just dosed 16 oz of amquel and will be doing another 25% water change as soon as ro unit makes the water.
I tested PH and ammonia everyday and as soon as i had reached 1.009 thats when things went bad, which was expected but wasn't prepared for the amount of die off.
Do you think my fish died from high ammonia, the highest it reached was 0.8 on the second day at 1.009. My hawaian flame wrasse which never showed any signs of ich ended up really bloated and looking like a pinecone, he ended up being eaten alive by the angels
I had an asfur angel become fully covered with ich spots 2nd day at 1.009 and then died the next day.
Does the hypo kill all ich in the water column immediately? The reason why i ask is because my asfur did not show the signs of ich until i had reached 1.009. So i am wondering if he already had ich and i did not see, or the ich is still alive in the water column at 1.009.
I am using a calibrated refractometer and pinpoint salinity calibration fluid.
Thanks,
Steven