No3 Nitrate problems

[tomato clown]

Since we sold our 125, my wife decided she wanted to keep the 36gal. this way we had "something" (not to mention it's been with us for years now)
Anyway, The tank has been cycled, kept up and all that jazz. Lately I've had a problem with anything staying alive in it so I decided to buy new test kits and go to town.
I've been using tap water as a top off, yes that changes as of now I rather spend the $0.60 for a gallon of the proper water at the store. All my tests are good except the No3 Nitrates, they are literally off the chart reading over 160ppm. This explains all the hair algea growth. Noticeing livestock dieing, I did a 20% water change about 6-7 hours ago, I plan on doing more over the weekend also.
Here is the info you'll all ask...
36gal Bowfront
65lbs LR
20lbs LS (crushed coral if i'm correct)
Temp = 82*f
PH = 8.2
Ammonia = 0.25
No2 = 0ppm
No3 = 160ppm+
Ca = extremely low I've been working on that since Wednesday it didn't register on my test, but it was an old kit I haven't bought a new one yet I assume I need it tho with water changes
Now, I want to go back to a reef again, but this is going to take some work before I can think about some new frags.
More info on the set-up...
Filter is a hang-on HOT Magnum canister (I don't use the bio-wheel) It's loaded with a carbon/amonia crystal blend.
Power head is 174GPH, but I have a 300gph handy if needed.
I need to/will be upgrading my lighting prior to corals, I have a standard ballast that comes with a typical tank. My other ballast just took a dive.
Thanks for the help.
Dan

 

[lion_crazz]

I would start doing 30% water changes once or twice a week to get your nitrate down (depending on if there is still anything in the tank and how fast you want to get them down). Only larger water changes will bring nitrates down.
I would also put that other powerhead in the tank for extra flow in the water.

 

[tomato clown]

Well I don't want to start a recycle. I'm down to 1 mexican turbo 1 red hermit and a damsel.
I pulled some of the decorative crap out that was covered in the hair algea, that alone allowed for about 2qts extra of water. Not to mention I have better water flow now too.
My filter isn't the kind that drops in, it actually has a head that act as a powerhead. I ran that alone for years, but finally installed this other one so I could finally use it. I noticed when adding my 2 part ca. treatment that the buffer wasn't clearing up as fast as I wanted, so now my water flow is 4-5 times what it was.
Now Being I want to go all coral once again, should I slowly change out my CC to a sandier bed? or is my CC fine?

 

[celacanthr]

Several people have success keeping a CC bed, but just as many, if not more, have serious nitrate problems with CC. I would suggest switching to a sand bed, adn see if that helps. What is your bio-load?

 

[tomato clown]

Bioload? If I knew what a bio-load was I'd happilly tell you.
I'm guessing on this one, but If I'm correct in my thinking..
1 Blue Damsel
1 Red leg hermit
1 Mexican Turbo (maybe 2, not sure if the other one is still alive and just hiding in it's shell)
Then just 7+ year established LR and CC (65lbs and 20lbs)

 

[saltfan]

Originally Posted by Tomato Clown
Now Being I want to go all coral once again, should I slowly change out my CC to a sandier bed? or is my CC fine?
My question for this would be, do you know what CC size you have? If its X-Fine CC you are ok, Fine CC is somewhat ok, but mix with LS, all the other number CC is not ok, they trap trates like mad.
On your trate problems....How often do you clean the filter pad in the canister?

 

[celacanthr]

Originally Posted by Tomato Clown
Bioload? If I knew what a bio-load was I'd happilly tell you.
I'm guessing on this one, but If I'm correct in my thinking..
1 Blue Damsel
1 Red leg hermit
1 Mexican Turbo (maybe 2, not sure if the other one is still alive and just hiding in it's shell)
Then just 7+ year established LR and CC (65lbs and 20lbs)
Yep that's what I meant!

Did you just leave the other turbo in the tank? I think this may have caused your massive nitrate spike.
HTH

 

[tomato clown]

CC is a fine crush, not mixed with anything. I'm going to buy new sand, so I'm going with 20lbs live and 5-10lbs regular. Instead of just tossing out the CC I'm probably going to just sell it or something.
This nitrate I'm assuming is what's caused other previous things to die, so it's not going to be something new due to a turbo, however I did move it before and the foot did move a bit, it just won't grab ahold of anything. The 3rd turbo I had did die, but by the time I got to it, a giant bristle had finished it's job so there was only an empty shell.

 

[tomato clown]

Well,
I just found out that I'm supposed to clean CC, this would have been good to know. So now there is a new plan.
As of today I started cleaning the CC bed, once I get my nitrates down to at least 40-70ppm or so I'll be transferring the contents over to my 29gal.. From there I begin a new setup from scratch. The transfer is so I keep the LR and won't have to be burdened by spending cash on more. The 36gal. will then be given a fresh 2" bed of LS, My current LR will be moved back into the tank, followed by remaining LS. All new water will be added during this process.
I'm guesstamating that within 2-3 months I should have semi-perfect readings, and can then begin restocking coral, which now brings me to this question.
I'll have to build a canopy as to accomidate proper lighting, however I've never thought of it untill now, so.. I'll be looking to house soft corals, hard corals, polyps, and an array of things. Is there a ballast that's made roughly 28" in length? That is the length of my tank here.
Any help I can get on my canopy lighting will be greatly appreciated. I've allready assumed the height of the canopy will be between 5"-7" above the glassline(the very top of the glass)
I'm too old to go through this again, so it's going to be done right this time no questions about it.

 

[saltfan]

Ok, now this is going to be funny, how in the hell do you clean a CC bed???? Being as I have a X-Fine CC bed for over 2 years now, and have never cleaned it....? Never having a problem with high trates either....??? :notsure:

 

[tomato clown]

MY CC is 3" deep and no less than 7 years old. I'm not sure if it's been 7 years or 9 years I've had this set up going, don't care to do the math either.
My filter has an attachment for cleaning beds, it's like a water vacuum, but you can get a basic cleaner at any store. I always assumed they were for freshwater only though. Some things people just don't tell you or even considder in the equations.
What it does is sucks up all of the CC into a plastic cannister, as the water continues to flow it sucks out the detris and crap as the CC falls back down into the tank. I only found this out because I went to my LFS and spoke with the owner directly who's been dealing with SW & FW for over 65 years. He told me that CC is in fact a great bed, but unfortunately a cleaning crew can only due so much. Alot of the detris, uneaten food, etc... will fall in between the CC and get trapped only to sink lower into the bed.
Sand on the other hand stays so tightly packed together that whatever falls will stay close to the top where it will be taken care of promptly by the clean up crews.
To clean it you remove fish, live rock, corals, etc.. into another tank/bucket/whatever in order to keep them out of the way for a few hours, obviously this spot will need the most basic of survival equipment. Then you only do a third of the bed once a month.
I did my 1/3 bed 4 hours ago, in another hour I'll be doing my tests again, so I'll post the results. But for now, After all these years it looks like I just placed brand new CC into part of my tank because it's so clean.

 

[tomato clown]

OK here are yesterdays readings:
Temp - 82*f
Ammonia - 0.25ppm
No2 - 0ppm
No3 - 160+ppm

Ph - 8.2
Tests results as of 20 minutes ago: (after 1/3 CC vacuumed)
Temp - 82*f
Ammonia - 0.50ppm
No2 - 0ppm
No3 - 0ppm (tested 2 times to be sure)

Ph - 8.4
What did I do? Only vacuumed 1/3 of the CC. 95% of the debris settled, so it wasn't Crystal clear, but good enough for a first run test. It was simply shocking to see such a massive change from just a bed cleaning. I will run the tests again tomorrow, but I only expect the same readings.
Ammonia & PH won't be a problem by this time next week so I guess I get to start planning the reset-up to come sooner.

 

[sufunk]

Did you also do a water change when you vacummed? how much water did you replace when you vacummed?

 

[tomato clown]

The water change was yesterday before the first tests. That was about a 20% water change.
Today was only the vacuum, followed by testing 5 hours after the job.

 

[tomato clown]

Pics that should help yas see the difference
This section is untouched yet

this section has been vacuumed, and is as clean as new

Same digital camera, same lighting, same angle, completely different looks

 

[nereef]

looks way better. with that crushed coral, i would vaccuum alternating sides with weekly water changes. get that gunk up into the water column so it can be skimmed.

 

[cresh1966]

I've had cc in a 75 gal tank for a long time, and vaccum my bed weekly for my water changes. Although alot of peole will protest the use of cc, it can be used with proper cleaning.
I don't remove my fish when I clean, just go slow and they get used to it (now my blenny follows the siphon and looks for food)

 

[tomato clown]

Luckilly I've only got a damsel in there who did fine, but with as cloudy as this got, next time I might just have to put him into another tank for the few hours. He hid in the rocks all day, but I suspect he had a rough time anyway.
After looking this morning, my mexican has apparently been on the move all night, that's more movement then I've seen since last week, and I found out I have a red leg hermit still alive. To my amazement there was a rather large shell at the front of my tank, looking at it I discovered that the hermit I couldn't find after the vacuum decided upon a new house.
Found out that the one mexican turbo did indeed die, so that would be my ammonia spike. I just can't figure out how he got from atop of some rock to the floor. My only guess is that the living turbo dragged it off or something

Anyway I'll post test results again about 12pm EST

 

[cresh1966]

the more times you clean it the less cloudy it gets. When I first started you couldn't see the back wall through the cloud, now you can see lengthwise through the tank

 

[tomato clown]

Edited my last post~

[hr]
Yes the guy told me the tank would turn black, but I didn't think he meant it would cloud up like it did. That was my only confusion, but I tried it anyway. lol Lesson learned there now.
My only dread is pulling out the LR to clean under there. My plan was to leave the section under the rock untill last because it'll be a pain to move, and I'll have to rearrange anyway to get shelves set for coral. I pulled out just a few pieces for giggles to see their weight, and the 2 smallest were 11lbs, so my # of 65lbs is definately a lowball. It's got to be closer to 90lbs here because I have a chunk in there thats just a bit bigger than a football