Noob in need of Advice!

[scott-clement]

Ok I am very new to Saltwater tanks(only been reading about them for a month or so) and i have drove everyone at work and a home mad with questions and figured it was time to talk to some of you folks that have so many years of exp.
I read alot of posts here and came to the idea that i want to have a varity of fish, coral, and anything else i can combine to make a very realistic like scape that is peaceful in my tank.

I been using K Burn/(user here) compatability chart but i have alot of questions on some things.
Fish i am Currently hoping will live together in peace:
Lyretail Anthias - Female x3 or so?
Lyretail Anthias - Male (Or will one of the females change to male?)
Blackcap Basslet x1
False Percula Clownfish - Mated Pair x1
Neon Goby x2 or 3
4-Wheel Drive Goby x1
Engineer Goby x2-4
Naso Tang - small x1
Midas Blenny x2-4
Scooter Blenny x1 (once tank is old enough)
Mandarin Dragonet - Green x1 (once again once the tank is old enough)
Confused on Damsels.. Good or bad? ok if last to add?

Had 2 i was interested in figure i can only have one or the other right?
Yellowtail Blue Damsel x1
Javanese Damsel x1
What about an Angel or Dwarf Angel?
The info on the fish pages look like this:
Size: 1-3 inches
Care Level: Easy
Temperament: Bold
Diet: Pellet, Brine, Flake />
Origin: Indian Ocean
Acclimation Time: 2+ hours
Minimum Tank Size: 50 gallons
Coral Safe: Yes
Invertebrate Safe: Yes
Reef Safe: Yes
Does that mean in a 50 gallon tank i can have only this one fish? and if it is a schooling fish could i have multi in a 50 gallon? Is Bold Temperament bad? or just mean he very active?
So i would like to have 20-25ish fish total when done, unreasonable?, if not how large of a tank would it take for all these? kinda wanting to stay at 50-100gal but can go larger maybe

but i figure i have picked out way to many.
Mainly i am trying to avoid major mistakes of tank buddys, aggression, and over crowding, friend does freshwater tanks and has no clue on saltwater said general rule of thumb he uses is no more than 2 inchs of fish per gallon. Some of these guys are 3 inchs and need 50 it says so that isnt working for saltwater lol.
I have read so much and i only seem to get more confused, some stuff makes since some doesnt hehe. I figured i want a slum(sp) and refuge... but dont know what size ratio to tank.
None of this is set is stone and i figure it will take me 2 months once i know what i am doing to get just stuff for the tank, sand, and Live Rock up to cycle, (understood that part

)
Ideally i think i am wanting to frag coral and maybe breed my clowns or Lyretail Anthias(one of the threads got me wanting too

)
Looking foward to a ton of replies of advice, and i will try and answer any questions yall ask. Thank you all for taking time to help.

Dont be afraid to tell me to stop and do something else i have a habbit of jumping in with both feet and trying to avoid that.

 

[niskyvaulter]

first, welcome to swf. there's no way you can have that many fish in any tank short of a 180. swf need a lot more space so that waste levels dont kill them. think of it this way; even though there are a lot of fish close together in reefs, all of their wastes is dispersed through the open ocean. this is unlike freshwater where fish can be stocked much more densely. 20-25 fish of 4ish inches would take at least 200 gallons. the other thing is some people will disagree with what i say, and they may be right. there are so many things in swf that nobody knows everything. so dont assume everything i say, or anyone else, is right. the other thing with swf is that theres 100 ways to do something, and theyre all right, you may agree with only 1 or 2 though.
also, dont listen to the requirements for fish that any store says (sorry swf). the problem with taking advice from stores is that theyre trying to sell you stuff, and are very likely to lie in order to make a sale (this goes for youe local fish store too). first figure out how much money you have to spend on your setup, it will make it much easier to answer your questions.
also, you shouldnt have more than one dwarf angel per tank, theyre territorial. pick the fish that you must have and also whether or not your going reef and what corals/inverts you want. post them on this thread and we'll be glad to help you.

 

[gatorwpb]

Where to being...

Welcome! and it seems like you are doing your research which is a very good thing.
First good job on realizing that cycling your tank with damsels is not a good thing. Based on my experience, I would stay away from them altogether.
Your fish list is certainly too much for a 50 and likely too much for a 100. Anthias are not a beginner fish because they can be difficult, like larger tanks and need to be feed several times a day (so Ive heard).
The 4-wheel drive blenny will clear out the beneficial fauna of your sand bed, so if you are dead set on having one, Id wait till your tank has matured and dont use a deep sand bed as it will disrupt the anaerobic bacteria.
The scooter blenny and the mandarin will compete for the same food source, so unless you have 100+ tank that is mature and well stocked with pods, you should only have one of them.
Most people will say an engineer goby is no good, not sure why but they have problems in captivity.
Finally, the naso tang needs a minimum 6' long tank, as they get big and you should plan your fish list based on their adult size and not on the size you buy them. With a 75g or 90g there are other tang options that only require a 4' tank. Dont put any tang in a tank smaller than 75g, but theres many discussion about that too.
Most angels are not reef safe (will pick on corals or inverts) and there is much discussion about whether dwarf angels are reef safe as they can pick on corals as well. Its a 50/50 shot on the dwarf angels. mine was returned because it picked on my acroporas.
Bold tempermant could mean several things, could be aggressive over space or food. could be aggressive to similar shape or color fish. Sometimes you have to look on other websites for more detailed information about a particular species of fish. The 50 gallons doesnt mean 50 gallons for one fish. They can share space, but its the minimum tank size that particular fish should have so that it doesnt get stressed out. You could live in a closet, but that doesnt mean you wouldnt end up feaking out from being confined to such a small space.
20-25ish fish is way too many. Most people in the 55g-90g range have 5-9 fish, some may have more, some even have less.
A sump(

) and fuge should be about 1/3 the size of your display tank. I have a 20g sump for my 65g tank.
As to the equipment, do your research into the numerous brands of everything, you dont want to have to buy things twice. Ask lots of questions and people should be able to help you.
Good luck

 

[scott-clement]

Ok i figured as much. How about these in a 90-100 Gallon tank? can go larger will just slow me down alot tho

False Percula Clownfish - Mated Pair x1
Neon Goby x2
Tang - small x1 (Need ideas on what tang will be fine in a tank this size?)
Midas Blenny x2-4
Mandarin Dragonet - Green x1
Sounds reasonable to me. lol As far as clean up crew i was thinking of these but not sure on correct numbers to get.
Blueleg Hermit Crab - Group of 10
Sand Sifting Cucumber (Saw a lot of warnings about Cucumbers? this is a safe one right?)
Feather Duster - Group of 3
Nassarius Snail - Group of 10
Mexican Turbo Snail x2-3
Cleaner Clam x2-3
Emerald Crab - Group of 3
Sand Sifting Crab - Group of 5
Sand Sifting Starfish x1
I was also wanting Heteractis Magnifica for my clowns, good choice? pros/cons?
Thank you all for your help =)

 

[shaun larlee]

Just my opinion but i would look at corals. I started wanting as many fish as i could get. I now have 4 fish and about 15 corals, im only 6 months in. Things ive learned in 6 months...
1.) Crushed Coral is bad.....Live sand is good.
2.) GET A GOOD PROTEIN SKIMMER!!!!
3.) always use RO water NOT TAP!!!
4.) Live Rock is better than any filtration
5.) get a sump or wet/dry ( far less maintenance than a cannister or HOB )
6.) Blue Hippo Tangs rule
7.) Zoanthids are addicting
Welcome this hobby is awesome...
oh and
8.) lights are everyhting. get good lights

 

[niskyvaulter]

Originally Posted by Scott-Clement
http:///forum/post/2654147
Ok i figured as much. How about these in a 90-100 Gallon tank? can go larger will just slow me down alot tho

False Percula Clownfish - Mated Pair x1
Neon Goby x2
Tang - small x1 (Need ideas on what tang will be fine in a tank this size?)
Midas Blenny x2-4
Mandarin Dragonet - Green x1
Sounds reasonable to me. lol As far as clean up crew i was thinking of these but not sure on correct numbers to get.
Blueleg Hermit Crab - Group of 10
Sand Sifting Cucumber (Saw a lot of warnings about Cucumbers? this is a safe one right?)
Feather Duster - Group of 3
Nassarius Snail - Group of 10
Mexican Turbo Snail x2-3
Cleaner Clam x2-3
Emerald Crab - Group of 3
Sand Sifting Crab - Group of 5
Sand Sifting Starfish x1
I was also wanting Heteractis Magnifica for my clowns, good choice? pros/cons?
Thank you all for your help =)

something in a 90-100 would be fine for that list. you could even add 2-3 more fish. for the tang, i really like kole tangs. most tangs in the ctenochaetus genus will be good (includes kole). most are known as bristletooth tangs. yellow, and some people might say purple tangs would work well, but i would only get one for the tank.
i wouldnt get a cucumber. all species of cucumber release toxins upon death. it might also exhaust a sand bed of that size. the same goes for the sand sifting starfish, and should be removed.
i would slowly add more nassarius, turbo, astraea, and maybe even cerith snails as you increase the bioload. you would probably aim for 20-30 turbo and astraea snails together, 20 ish nassarius snails, and 15 cerith snails when the tank is fully stocked. dont buy a cleanup crew package expecting there to be enough food. add small amounts of each type as the need arises. also, have you researched the functions of different snails? if nto, just say so and we'll explain.
as for hermit crabs, some people will swear by them while some people just have them eat their snails. hermits are opportunistic feeders and can eat snails for the shells if a significant amount of shells are not around. see what the general opinion on herits is.
while a magnifica is not impossible to raise, it is one of the hardest anemones to raise and is not for a beginner. anemones are also sensitive to changes in water quality and need an established tank of at least six months for good health. i would not recomend a magnifica for a first anemone, but you can do what you want. i would recomend a bubble tip anemone, bta for shorthand (theres a ridiculous amount of acronyms used on the boards). false percs are not as likely to host btas, but it is still pretty common. btas are considered the easiest anemones to own and are good for a first.
also, when you get into the equipment buying stage, i would advise you to post your ideas on the boards so you can get feedback and advice. almost all of us didnt discover this site until after we had bought all of the wrong stuff from our lfs (local fish store) for ridiculous prices.

 

[nordy]

Originally Posted by Shaun Larlee
http:///forum/post/2654239
Just my opinion but i would look at corals. I started wanting as many fish as i could get. I now have 4 fish and about 15 corals, im only 6 months in. Things ive learned in 6 months...
1.) Crushed Coral is bad.....Live sand is good.
2.) GET A GOOD PROTEIN SKIMMER!!!!
3.) always use RO water NOT TAP!!!
4.) Live Rock is better than any filtration
5.) get a sump or wet/dry ( far less maintenance than a cannister or HOB )
6.) Blue Hippo Tangs rule
7.) Zoanthids are addicting
Welcome this hobby is awesome...
oh and
8.) lights are everyhting. get good lights
+1

! Good summation Shaun on some really important points.
Scott-Clement, you are on the right path in posting questions and with starting out here at SWF.com. As with many others here, I was into SWfishkeeping for years before I found this place and, oh, the mistakes I made along the way.
As a general comment, I would suggest first focusing on your tank and equipment (take the time and spend the money up front so you don't end upgrading repeatedly as your tank matures and your plans change), then getting your cycle started and sucessfully completed, then you can begin to think about your livestock. If you do it right, you will take your time and won't rush things.
You will hear it many times, but it bears repeating, PATIENCE! Resist the temptation to stock too quickly, and resist the temptation to overstock. You, and your tank, will be all the better for waiting until your tank is established and ready for fish or corals.
This is one hobby that you just can not rush and mistakes can be very, very costly.
Good luck and welcome to the Boards!

 

[scott-clement]

Some very good advice yall are giving, thank you very much. Basically i am trying to figure out what i sorta want the end product of my tank to look like and plan correctly, i understant alot of my fish and goals wont happen till 6 months or a year most likely i just dont want to set out with one thing in mind then find out i cant.
So i should drop the Starfish and Cucumber, they sounded so kool to watch

oh well lol i will definitly trust yall over my wants

So i am thinking a 90ish gallon tank with 120-150ish pounds of LR with a 5-6 inch LSB, with a sump and refuge, that sound about right? the sump should be 30ish gallons right? does that include the refuge or is that seperate?
Livestock i have in mind atm is:
False Percula Clownfish - Mated Pair x1
Neon Goby x2
Blue Hippo tang x1
Midas Blenny x2-4
Mandarin Dragonet - Green x1
with a clean up crew of:
Blueleg Hermit Crab - Group of 10 (seeing alot of mixed opinions? personally i had hermits crabs as a kid and loved them would like to keep them if it isnt going to cause trouble)
Feather Duster - Group of 3
Nassarius Snail x15
Mexican Turbo Snail x15
cerith snails x15
Cleaner Clam x2-3
Emerald Crab - Group of 3
Sand Sifting Crab - Group of 5
I could use some ideas on what the clowns will be hosted by that isnt really hard to start with, i like the way a BTA looks but would really like to have something to host the clowns. And i am CLUELESS on corals, any suggestions are welcome

I know there is a ton of equipment needed, like serveral pumps and powerheads, thinking the MH(i think thats right) Lights are what i want.
for 90 gal i need 25ish times water flow right so that would be 2250ish gallons per hour right?
*sigh* i know there is more i am wanting to ask but honestly i am to drunk to think at this point, ruff night at work, will check here again when i wake up lol
As always thank you all for taking the time to help it really means alot to me.

 

[gatorwpb]

Im one of the ones that says no to hermits. They have all been moved down to my fuge because they have a taste for my snails, especially the easy to get nassarius.
Mexican turbos are very big snails and so you will only need a couple of those. The rest can be standard turbos. Id increase the number of certih and nassarius snails personally. I have between 20-30 each of ceriths, nassarius, turbos, and nerite. Each one has different eating habits and between them all, my sand, glass and rocks are scrubbed clean.
As to the anemone, I had though that BTAs were the easiest for clowns.

I had a Rose BTA (aka RBTA) that my onyx clowns (a percula variant) hosted in the matter of minutes. I did lose the anemone to my powerhead (noob mistake) and now the clowns host my frogspawn.

Cleaner clams are ok, they can go in the fuge too, but mine only lasted a couple months because they died off.
I agree with the others that all sand sifters are bad. You want to keep the beneficial critters in the top layer of your sand. Especially if you are doing a deep sand bed, although I dont think you need one as deep as 5-6", 4" should be fine.
The fuge is part of the sump. There are many designs you can find on this site if you use the search function. also google melev's reef and he has designs on his site.

 

[niskyvaulter]

if your getting a bta then yourll need mh or t5s, its good that you were planning on that anyway (it took a long time to get myself convinced to shell out $400 for lights). with those lights, youll be able to keep any corals you want, so if you find one you like, just research it befor you buy it. flow and lighting are really the only things you need to consider for corals, and if you can support an anemone, then any corals will be fine. you actually will need to put some of the less light loving corals lower in the tank so as not to burn them.

 

[touchthesky00]

im not sure if 4 midas blennies will get along in one tank
id say maybe just get one?

 

[scott-clement]

touchthesky00 - Not sure SWF.com says they do ok in a group, but i can do just 1... lol
GatorWPB - ok i will drop the hermit number down to 1 or 2 and see how it goes, seems i miss read the earlier post about the BTA, so i will probably go with that thanks for clarifying that

niskyvaulter - I will generally need to wait a few months before getting coral correct? and i figured if this is gonna be my hobby i might as well shell out the cash now instead of after a major lost

Oh and i havent looked at what each snail does yet, if you can point me to a site i would be grateful.

So now i got it as a 90 gallon tank with 30 gallon sump/refuge, Protein Skimmer, RO water filter for house, MH Lighting, pumps and PHs?
Livestock i have in mind atm is:
False Percula Clownfish - Mated Pair x1
Neon Goby x2
Blue Hippo tang x1
Midas Blenny x1
Mandarin Dragonet - Green x1
with a clean up crew of: (will add or change as needed)
Blueleg Hermit Crab x2
Feather Duster - Group of 3
Nassarius Snail x20
standard turbo snails x15
Mexican Turbo Snail x3
nerite snails x20
cerith snails x20
Cleaner Clam x1
Emerald Crab - Group of 3
1) i wont know what MH range to get till i decide on what corals correct?
2) Any brands of equipment yall favor over others? heard rea sea was bad
3) 2250 GPH would be 25x flow right? 25x is what i need to aim for correct?
4) What are some good brands of tanks? Acrylic vs Glass? not worried about weight.