Nra

[fender]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Maybe punishment is the answer... I'm all for building a massive prison in Guantanomo Bay and shipping gun criminals there for life.
Violent criminals in general. The whole legal system needs an overhaul. Spend 10 years in jail for downloading and distributing movies and yet less than that for ---- or even murder? Something wrong there....

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by renogaw
uhoh, now you're really going to get the democrats involved...
I know... I'm really on both sides of the fence. I think we need to do something about criminal access to guns AND I think we need far harsher prison sentences. I firmly believe prison should more resemble a Medieval dungeon than a health club. I'm kind of out on my own on this one...

 

[sig45]

Originally Posted by renogaw
sry, but you cannot control gun related crime without making it harder for people to get guns, or making it worse for them if they get caught using guns for crime.
if the idiots would only kill themselves instead of an innocent girl in her living room because their aim sucked there wouldn't be problems. you obviously do not live near a crime infested town.
your right, i live in a little town called Tampa Bay Florida

 

[sig45]

Originally Posted by kmc
Ever heard of a gun store being held up at knife point?
matter of fact i have, it happend right here in largo florida, my buddy worked the case.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by sig45
, .....do your self a favour do some research on the crime rate of some of those euroupean countrys that have stiff gun laws.
Sig, do you have any stats to back this up? I'd always heard and assumed it was true, but from what I'm now seeing it would seem the USA actually does have more gun crimes.

 

[sig45]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
I know... I'm really on both sides of the fence. I think we need to do something about criminal access to guns AND I think we need far harsher prison sentences. I firmly believe prison should more resemble a Medieval dungeon than a health club. I'm kind of out on my own on this one...
agreed, put fear into law breakers, make them think twice and act once.

 

[sig45]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Sig, do you have any stats to back this up? I'd always heard and assumed it was true, but from what I'm now seeing it would seem the USA actually does have more gun crimes.
a few years back when i was in collage i had to do a project that delt with this issue, i had all kinds of stats, i will see what i can find., let me say this i love hunting, i love sport shooting, i love the fact that i have the freedom to have a gun on me right now, but i do not think that the assult weapon band should of been lifted, let me also add that most gun crimes in the USA took place in MI, and CA, where its the hardest to get a fire arm.

 

[socal57che]

I'm not an anti-govt radical, but I do believe that the people have the right to defend themselves. Our government should not have enough power to take that right away. One of the first things the Nazi government did was take away the right for a Jew to own a gun. We all know what followed. Do you think the average citizen realized where it was leading. I think not. They saw it as a way to curb crime...just as it was represented. I don't think everyone needs to pack heat, but if the people have the right to carry concealed weapons criminals will not know who can defend themselves and who cannot. I saw an interview a few years ago where a prison inmate discussed waiting for out of state liscense plates when choosing a car to jack. Florida residents had the right to carry a concealed weapon. He had the mental capacity to wait for victims who were less likely to be able to defend themselves.
I,too, am no longer a member, but vehemently believe that the right to bear arms is the amendment that preserves all the others.

 

[renogaw]

the problem is we can't kill people off for capitol offenses quicker, we can't punish harder than prison cause of the civil rights people, and prisons are more like holiday's and a good thing to gang members cause its life as usual inside only with free food and lodging.

 

[socal57che]

I have softened my view of the death penalty after researching how expensive the legal process is. I do, however, agree that prison should not be PeeWees playhouse for criminals. Chain gangs should be mandatory. Let them plant trees and pick crops.

 

[renogaw]

you cannot use the holocaust as an example here. The only reason Jews were targetted was for unification. It could have just as easily been catholics if Hitler was Jewish. But the rest of the world would have acted faster if it were Catholics.
same thing for sports cars--no one holds up a bank with a sports car. also, why wouldn't someone use a knife at a gun store? none of the guns are loaded...

 

[sig45]

The official figures for gun crime in England and Wales in 2002/03 were announced in January 2004. There were a total of 24,070 firearm offences of which 57% (13,822) involved air weapons, the highest number of offences ever. The largest increase in offences was seen with imitation firearms for which there was an annual increase of 46% to 1815 offences.
The FBI's Crime in the United States estimated that 66% of the 16137 murders in 2004 were ... Gun violence publications from the Office of Justice Programs
http://www.gunowners.org/sk0703.htm
this site has some interesting results.

 

[sig45]

Originally Posted by renogaw
you cannot use the holocaust as an example here. The only reason Jews were targetted was for unification. It could have just as easily been catholics if Hitler was Jewish. But the rest of the world would have acted faster if it were Catholics.
same thing for sports cars--no one holds up a bank with a sports car. also, why wouldn't someone use a knife at a gun store? none of the guns are loaded...
im not a smoker, but i do know smoking kills many, much more then fire arms, should cigs be banned. it all goes back to personal choice.

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by sig45
im not a smoker, but i do know smoking kills many, much more then fire arms, should cigs be banned. it all goes back to personal choice.
cigs already are being banned in public. there's too much in tax dollars to ever ban cigarettes outright.

 

[renogaw]

and, btw, don't even think about using the marajuana excuse of being legal/illegal. if they could tax that as well it would be legal

 

[socal57che]

Originally Posted by renogaw
you cannot use the holocaust as an example here. The only reason Jews were targetted was for unification. It could have just as easily been catholics if Hitler was Jewish. But the rest of the world would have acted faster if it were Catholics.
same thing for sports cars--no one holds up a bank with a sports car. also, why wouldn't someone use a knife at a gun store? none of the guns are loaded...
Do you honestly believe that Hitler would have been finished when the Jews were gone? How long before the ovens were filled with Blacks, Indians, Asians,etc.?
Who's to say we won't elect someone with a similar agenda, and by the time we realize what we have done the government is too strong to do anything about it. I admit it's a stretch, but how many tyrants have followers that truly believe they are doing the right thing? We have to be able to keep our leaders in check. It's how our government was established to begin with, but we are already seeing the judicial system make law. I'm telling you, it's a bad road to start down.

 

[taz_12777]

I have worked for the New York State Department of Corrections for over twelve years as a Corrections Officer. I have watched some guys you may of heard of, David Berkowits, Arthur Shawcross, Joe "Mad Dog Sullivan. They get three meals a day, heat, T.V. a couple of movies a week, pizza, ice cream. They can buy soda, cakes, pastries, etc. The criminals will always find away to do what they want because they do not play by the rules. You can not have knives in a prison but the inmates still find something to slash another inmate, one time they even used a bic pen to stab some one with. Gun control only controls law abiding people and gives criminals an easier target. If every law abiding person had a gun do you think the criminals would try to hold anybody up on the possibility of getting shot themselves. I think not.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by TAZ_12777
... If every law abiding person had a gun do you think the criminals would try to hold anybody up on the possibility of getting shot themselves. I think not.
Gang members get into shoot outs all the time. They "know" the target is armed. Banks get robbed, even with armed security. As do armored cars.

 

[renogaw]

or they do the cowardly drive by, shooting up the whole neighborhood instead of a man to man shoot out. i'm not sure on the numbers, but i live inbetween springfield mass and hartford ct. i'm sure they aren't as high as miami or LA, but we have a ton of gun related crime every day.
i'd face off to a man with a knife or run away from him, but if someone has a gun--you're giving whatever that person wants when they want it or you could be killed from a distance. if it was harder for them to get the guns, then it would be harder for them to do the crimes.
there's nothing anyone can say that can dispute that.

 

[socal57che]

Here is a link to some stats concerning the removal by the govt. of the right to bear arms. It wasn't just the Nazis.
http://www.jpfo.org/deathgc.htm
"Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all the international and domestic wars combined.
Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common criminals."