octopus 4 plus algae scrubber on 125

chips

chips

Member
I just purchased a new 125 gallon tank and stand to upgrade from my 55 gallon. I had always thought I was going to do this but thought it would be years down the road. I found a LFS going out of business and everything was 50% off so I got the last 125 tank and stand they had along with the lighting. Just a few weeks ago I replaced my old seaclone skimmer that was not performing (I know big surprise huh) with a reef octupus nwb 4. the needle wheel version rated at 100 gallons and put that in my newly created sump/refugium built from a 20 long. Now I am looking at upgrading to this 125 and using the octopus skimmer but wonder if it will be enough since it is only rated at 100 gallons. I will be trying to use the 55 as the sump/refugium but I don't think it will fit under my new cabinet. I will probably end up using two 20 long tanks. Starting off this tank will not be anywhere near capacity as far as fish so the bioload will be rather small, but I am sure that will change. If I use the two 20s for the sump/fuge there will be 28 gallons of water there (30x12x9) when the sumps are running at the 9' level. If I use the 55 there will be about 29 gallons in the sump (48x12x12). My question is will this octopus skimmer rated at 100 gallons be sufficient in this setup? I kow it wouldn't be enough when the 125 is fully stocked. My other question is would a algae scrubber help make up the difference in what the 100 gallon skimmer wouldn't handle? if not, what about running the octopus skimmer and the seaclone 150 skimmer together until I can get a single skimmer to handle the new tank? Here is the live stock going in to this 125 to start.
1 firefish
1 green chromis
1 percula clown
1 diamond gobie
1 lawnmower blennie
1 sailfin tang (I know, I know. I'm so cruel with a tang in a 55.. this is the reason I want to go to the 125 while he is still small)
pink creeper xenia
4 heads hammer coral
4 heads candy cane branching coral
1 cleaner shrimp
assorted crabs and snails
about 80 pounds live rock (will be increased as soon as I can afford the rock and get it cured) Is it okay to run on 80 lbs rock to start or should I have the rock first?
 
acrylic51

acrylic51

Active Member
To try to answer your question on the skimmer scrubber combination, I don't think there's any real evidence out there that proves they can't work in conjunction with 1 another....To be quite honest, on my new setup I am going to do the exact same deal. The skimmer will be properly sized for the setup, but at the same time I want to run a scrubber in conjunction with a skimmer. Knowing from the start that they will be competing against each other, I figure or reason that neither is 100% efficient, and nothing is, so possibly where 1 isn't performing to max you have a safety that is working the whole time as well, picking up possibly what is being missed.....Again this is just my thoughts on that subject!!!!!!
Congrats on the upgrade......
 
chips

chips

Member
Yea I agree nothing works 100% as efficient as it is rated. I am guessing that I will probably end up with both the octopus and the seaclone 150 skimmers along with the algae scrubber. The octopus rates at 100 gallons, the seaclone is 150 so in theory that would add up to a 250 gallon rating. If you take 50% off that would leave me at 125 gallon rating. But being that I am talking about a seaclone I am guessing to take of 75% of that efficiency so that would put me at 100 gallons and need to make up the other 50 gallons and am hoping that a algae scrubber would do that. I understand that the algae scrubber has to wait until the nutrients are actually broken down to nitrates and phosphates before it does anything, but hopefully the crabs and other clean up crew would help with getting rid of some of the solids. I just can't afford to get a skimmer the right size for the 125 at this time but I am really itching to get it setup. I know patience is key with this hobby but it isn't always easy to have. I may just end up waiting until I can find a smoking deal on a properly sized skimmer unless someone can assure me that this idea can work with a undersized skimmer.
The store going out of business had two skimmers in the shop they were using for sale but I heard the pumps screaming since nobody there cared to put water in the tanks and ran them dry. I told them about it and they looked at me like I was stupid then finally turned them off. (Maybe that's why they are going out of business). It would probably be better to wait until I could get the rock anyway, I think without it no matter what skimmer/scrubber setup I have the bio filter will be lacking anyway. But on the other hand I don't have enough livestock to overload my biofilter in my 55 so would it really be overloaded in a 125 with the same livestock, who kows. What do you think? I guess I am playing the game of what to buy first on a very limited budget. Run what I have and buy rock or buy a new skimmer and be short on rock with only 80 lbs in a 125.
 
chips

chips

Member
That really was my plan for the seclone. I just haven't had the chance to yet. My wife thought it would be a good idea to keep in case our son wants to start his own little tank or something. I like the idea of blowing it up myself.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
YUP. I would use the SeaClone for target practice as well...
If you build a decent scrubber to handle your system volume, you might end up spending almost as much as a new skimmer on DIY parts.
I'm really starting to believe that scrubbers should be built inside totes or aquariums to avoid salt spray and other disasters. Definitely look into scrubbers that are built in a tote or a small glass aquarium instead of free-standing one's in a sump. I definitely believe that is the new way to go.
I would also highly suggest using a 55g as your sump instead of two 20g longs.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Oh, and by the way, there's a guy now that makes a pretty good cone skimmer for a 150g aquarium for only $129.99 I'm going to be investing my money into it pretty soon myself. :D It's called an SC150. I believe they have a thread on it over on RC if you do a simple google search.


You could have two skimmers working in tandem if you want to try to overkill it a little. For the price, it might be worth a shot...
I still think that an Algae Scrubber would be an awesome addition to the system, but it would have to be properly built.
 
chips

chips

Member
Snake,
I am going to try everything I can to use the 55 but I don't think it will fit in the stand under the tank. That's one reason I am looking at using the (2) 20s instead. I also would be using the 55 to keep my current livestock living until the 125 cycles and is ready for fish, then for coral. This will be a two stage move and the (2) 20s may end up just a temp setup to cycle the tank. This still leaves me short on skimmer. I think if I am going to end up spending as much for a DIY scrubber as I would a skimmer I believe it would be better spent money on a skimmer that I couldn't mess up the build. I will look at the SC150. I just want something that I can put in there and not have to adjust like that seaclone junk. I don't mind a little adjusting but not like that seaclone where you adjust everyway you can and it still doesn't work. Would a octopus NWB110 and the SC150 be overkill? I heard people talking about using skimmers that are rated at twice the volume of the tank, is that a good idea or is that a rule of thumb from the old days before these newer skimmers came out?
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
if you are worried about overkill, then go with the SC65 cone skimmer for $79.99 It's still a decent skimmer and used quite frequently on small SPS tanks over on RC. I think the Octopus 100g skimmer and a scrubber would probably be the way to go though. You wouldn't have to worry about overskimming because only as much algae grows as much nitrate and phosphate you have in the water. It can not overfilter your water...
 
chips

chips

Member
I'm more worried about not having enough than I am overkill. I just am trying to save a little money, but at the same time not trying to cut myself to short. If the Octopus 100g would handle the load alone I would just use that. I think it will keep up with the 125 with the low stocking that will be in it. I only will have livestock that is not even maxing out the 55, except for the tang not having the swimming room in the 55.(store told me it would be okay in the 55, it is still young and hope to be in the 125 for him) I don't know for sure if it will work that way or not, I would like just a little extra to insure that I am okay, If I have to get something now to make me feel better about the tank I want to go ahead and get what will work for the 125 when it is fully stocked. I need to do this cheap and use what I have with adding a little to it so I don't have left over equipment. I don't mind paying to do this the right way and not come up short for what the livestock needs but I don't think I need the $1500 skimmers either. I guess what I am saying is I want to do this right but can't afford to over do it. I like the idea of the SC65 at $79.99 but the SC150 for $40.00 more isn't a bad deal. Would the SC65 and the Octpus 100g keep up with a fully loaded 125? If so, I would go that route. If not, I would go with the larger SC150. Either way, my wife would shoot me if I didn't set this up using what we have since we just bought this octopus skimmer. I got it before I found the deal on the 125 and didn't think I would ever be able to get one.
Is it possible to overskim the water? Would it pull out to much nutrients so creatures wouldn't get the protein they need? I don't think it is possible to overskim my tank, my wife loves to feed the fish. I have to tell her not to all the time. I think she would feed them 3 times a day if she could. I don't want to spend money on a scrubber and find out that I built the thing wrong and it doesn't work the way it should when I can spend the money on the SC65 and know it works.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I think you are over-thinking it.
Your filtration should grow as your tanks bioload increases.
If you already have the Octopus nwb100 skimmer and you only have an extra 25g of water to filter and you don't plan to add to your fish stock list for awhile, then use what you have got. Just watch your tank and make sure that it's not starting to grow algae very bad, and if it is - then you need to think about upgrading your filtration or tell your wife that the fish aren't as hungry as she thinks they are.
The SC150 with a mesh wheel mod (basically putting Enkamat on/for the impeller) can easily skim your tank without the Octopus. There are a few threads about this skimmer on RC if you want to take a look, do a search.
The SC65 would do a great job supplementing the skimmer that you have now - but only get it if you increase your bioload or notice that your tank isn't as clean as it should be.
A scrubber would be a great option - but only if it's built right and maintained correctly. If you know how to do any kind of PVC work, it's an easy build. The hardest thing is cutting the slot for the screen as evenly as possible with a dremel tool or a table saw. I highly recommend to build one inside of a food grade plastic tote OR better yet, a 10g aquarium so that salt spray can be easily controlled and your return water can be plumbed to go anywhere you choose it to go. Scrubbers are AWESOME, and will grow as your bioload grows. Here's some idea of the cost of building a decent scrubber:
10g tank - $12
Flat black spray paint, 2 cans - 2.20
Hole saw bit: $15
two 1" threaded bulkheads: $12
20" of 1" PVC pipe (may do double this, you may make a mistake) .25 a foot
Hose barb adapter for 5/8" Vinyl tubing .45
two Male 1" PVC adapters for bulkheads .70
two small pre-cut sheets of glass for inside of aquarium - $4 (Lowes)
Plastic Canvas screen - .50
Zip ties - (probably free)
3/4" piece of wood to cover the whole top of the tank, painted black with four holes in top, cut for light sockets (probably free)
Aluminum foil or house flashing for reflecting light - fits down into aquarium dry sides. (probably free)
Four pack of 23w CFL bulbs - $10
Four lamp repair kits - $25
Silicone tube - $5
Rio 1400 (or more) powerhead: 35
If I totaled it up correctly...$122.85 is what you would be spending for the algae scrubber if you built it in a 10g aquarium.
Personally, I like the benefits of adding a scrubber as well as protein skimming. But, it would cost you almost as much as it would buying the SC150.
(I made that list out mainly for my benefit as well... lol)
 
chips

chips

Member
Yea I do over-think things sometimes. I think I will just go with the octopus to start with. Then later I will try looking into adding a scrubber. If that doesn't get it, I will look at getting the other skimmer if the load calls for it. O and I went and measured my stand for the 125 and it is 24" from bottom to the bottom of the top brace. My 55g is 21" tall and would fit in the cabinet. The only problem is that I would not have room to get to anything in the sump once it was put together. I would have to drop it in from the top, put skimmer, heater, pump, etc... in then set the 125 on it. Once it is setup it would work but if anything ever happened to the pump or the skimmer or any of the equipment I would be screwed. I just don't think there is enough room to get in there if I need to. I thought about going to a glass place and see if they could cut the top say 3 - 4 inches off the 55g. That would give me enough room to stick my arm down there and get what I need. Would that work?
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
It would be cheaper building your own stand. 36" high or so. Might be worth looking into. Also, custom building your own stand will give you more room to add a scrubber and other devices.
Setting up an aquarium properly just takes time and a lot of planning it out and executing it. It will all come together!
 
chips

chips

Member
It is a lot of planning. I keep thinking of other pieces and ways to get this setup. The last thing I want to do is set this tank up wrong and have it not work right because I want it together right now. I try to think about one part of the setup, but that seems to depend on another part so I have to think about that and so on...
I wonder if I could modify the current stand to allow me to have the room I need, hummmm.. that just might work....That way I could put the scrubber in a 10g beside the 55g sump.. I think I like that idea.... Thanks
 
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