OK I quit!!!
- Thread starter michaeltx
- Start date
krux
Member
you might want to read sand mail this month in fama, talked about it in another thread. it was a response to a guy with out of control hair algae and mystery phosphates popping up.
get a phosphate sponge and run it for a week, and if you want to go biological don't waste time on anything but lettuce nudibranchs.
definately worth the 4 bucks to read the article if you can get to a book store before you make the final tear down...
get a phosphate sponge and run it for a week, and if you want to go biological don't waste time on anything but lettuce nudibranchs.
definately worth the 4 bucks to read the article if you can get to a book store before you make the final tear down...
jim27
Member
I dont have much to add to this thread except that I had a HUGE bryopsis problem in my 18g about 2 months ago(it was all over everything just like in your tank). What I did was I took all the rock out and scrubbed the hell out of it with a tooth brush. The algae on the sand kinda made it into a big carpet so I just kinda rolled it up and threw it out. I lost the top layer of sand but its just a shallow sand bed so no biggy. After that I added some turbo's and blue legs, did a 5 gallon water change and havent seen it since.
Lets see a pic of the algae tank Mike!
Lets see a pic of the algae tank Mike!
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
You need to use more desirable macro algeas/plants to get the phosphates and nitrates down. then the green hair will go away. Otherwise, the green will continue to grow and expand until the algae nutirents go down. then they will either stop growing or receed.
Such such things as removing the green hair, tearing down your system, or adding nitrate removers will only be temporary solutions. Adding algae to filter out the nitrates/phosphates or removing the source (like too much feeding) are the only ways to make lasting changes
Such such things as removing the green hair, tearing down your system, or adding nitrate removers will only be temporary solutions. Adding algae to filter out the nitrates/phosphates or removing the source (like too much feeding) are the only ways to make lasting changes
rhomer
Member
I had a similar problem, of which I did three things. My tank was completely covered, and approaching a year old. I too had a deep sand bed. I changed to RO water from DI water. I started running a polyfilter in my sump, and I continued to get different types of macro algea until I found some that flourished. It was like magic after I changed these things.
I was pulling my rocks out once a week for water changes and scrubbing them with a tooth brush. I had absolutly no coraline algea growth, all in all the tank looked horrible. But it took about a month after I made these adjustments, and it was all gone. I did absolutly nothing to physically remove it. It just disappeared on it's own.
I was pulling my rocks out once a week for water changes and scrubbing them with a tooth brush. I had absolutly no coraline algea growth, all in all the tank looked horrible. But it took about a month after I made these adjustments, and it was all gone. I did absolutly nothing to physically remove it. It just disappeared on it's own.
blueberryboomer
Active Member
Mike, Glad to hear your not giving up the hobby! Sorry I missed the part about breaking it down and starting over. Good Luck and Have FUN!
Lisa
Lisa
michaeltx
Moderator
ok couple of things.
You need to use more desirable macro algeas/plants to get the phosphates and nitrates down. then the green hair will go away. Otherwise, the green will continue to grow and expand until the algae nutirents go down. then they will either stop growing or receed.
well I had a 20 gallon sumo that was completely full of macro algaes 3 different kinds (grape, razor, and another cant remember) since this algae has started in my macro has disapeared went sexual and isnt getting the nutrients at all the haor algae is using it up before it gets to. I even got more and start the culture over and it hasnt grown if fact most of it has died off.
Such such things as removing the green hair, tearing down your system, or adding nitrate removers will only be temporary solutions. Adding algae to filter out the nitrates/phosphates or removing the source (like too much feeding) are the only ways to make lasting changes
why do you say tearing down a tank and starting over wont help and it will come back. I dont see a logic in this one. when I say start over I mean take the whole system apart clean it new sand and rocks everything brandy new. and fraginf the corals I have to go back into the tank. why would this not take care of the situation. also I beleive the problem with my system is the sand it is a mox of argonite play sand and prebagged live sand. all indicators go to the sand.
I have the nitrate sponges and phosphate sponges and have tried 3 different brands of it. I pulled it out, bought stuff to eat it tested source water, tested water from food, slacked off on feeding, cut the time the lights are on, I stay up on water chages, I have alot of current in the tank, I have scrubbed the rocks off, and even went as far as isolateing rocks that have the algae on it in another tank to get it off. all with out any permanant results.
so where would you look to. the only thing that I can think of is the sand because of the playsand.
I have tried nudis as fast as they would eat it then it would grow back as they moved to the next spot and then just disappear I had 6 of them I think there is still one in there.
hey blueberry I figured you did I love this hobby but hate the algae problem that I am having. but yeah I will always have fun.
and ya know what when I do this I will be able to add my 2 25 gallon tanks for the fuge and sump that wont fit the doors of the stand. so atleast on good thing will come out of it.
Mike
You need to use more desirable macro algeas/plants to get the phosphates and nitrates down. then the green hair will go away. Otherwise, the green will continue to grow and expand until the algae nutirents go down. then they will either stop growing or receed.
well I had a 20 gallon sumo that was completely full of macro algaes 3 different kinds (grape, razor, and another cant remember) since this algae has started in my macro has disapeared went sexual and isnt getting the nutrients at all the haor algae is using it up before it gets to. I even got more and start the culture over and it hasnt grown if fact most of it has died off.
Such such things as removing the green hair, tearing down your system, or adding nitrate removers will only be temporary solutions. Adding algae to filter out the nitrates/phosphates or removing the source (like too much feeding) are the only ways to make lasting changes
why do you say tearing down a tank and starting over wont help and it will come back. I dont see a logic in this one. when I say start over I mean take the whole system apart clean it new sand and rocks everything brandy new. and fraginf the corals I have to go back into the tank. why would this not take care of the situation. also I beleive the problem with my system is the sand it is a mox of argonite play sand and prebagged live sand. all indicators go to the sand.
I have the nitrate sponges and phosphate sponges and have tried 3 different brands of it. I pulled it out, bought stuff to eat it tested source water, tested water from food, slacked off on feeding, cut the time the lights are on, I stay up on water chages, I have alot of current in the tank, I have scrubbed the rocks off, and even went as far as isolateing rocks that have the algae on it in another tank to get it off. all with out any permanant results.
so where would you look to. the only thing that I can think of is the sand because of the playsand.
I have tried nudis as fast as they would eat it then it would grow back as they moved to the next spot and then just disappear I had 6 of them I think there is still one in there.
hey blueberry I figured you did I love this hobby but hate the algae problem that I am having. but yeah I will always have fun.
and ya know what when I do this I will be able to add my 2 25 gallon tanks for the fuge and sump that wont fit the doors of the stand. so atleast on good thing will come out of it.
Mike
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Mike
why i say it will be temporary: Basically you have to correct what is causing the hair algae. It is not the sand or anything else in the tank. It is the nutrients that are feeding the hair algae. I have had an algae bloom in my 55g fish tank. the rocks and glass are red/green and had been clean only a month ago. Why? I added 1)more lighting and 2) was feeding twice a day. After two weeks of 1/day feeding the algae is fading away from the glass and rocks, even where the snales are not feeding.
What happened is that somehow the hair got ahead of the macro. As posts above state, you need to reestablish that macro and plants and continue that effort until it takes. Once you do that without temporary changes to your system, then the system will be balanced out and stable and remain that way.
why i say it will be temporary: Basically you have to correct what is causing the hair algae. It is not the sand or anything else in the tank. It is the nutrients that are feeding the hair algae. I have had an algae bloom in my 55g fish tank. the rocks and glass are red/green and had been clean only a month ago. Why? I added 1)more lighting and 2) was feeding twice a day. After two weeks of 1/day feeding the algae is fading away from the glass and rocks, even where the snales are not feeding.
What happened is that somehow the hair got ahead of the macro. As posts above state, you need to reestablish that macro and plants and continue that effort until it takes. Once you do that without temporary changes to your system, then the system will be balanced out and stable and remain that way.
michaeltx
Moderator
problem though.
I have done everything in my power to get the nutrients out. you say its nothing in the tank. well how is getting there I am very careful as to what I put in the tank food etc. so I dont ad to my problem and yet it just gets worse.
water changes, polyfilters. abosrbers are not working.
I even got a net that is in front of a powerhead that I have to clean out 2-3 times aday picking up the hair filaments taht get dislodge and get into the current. so I dont get what else I can do. like I said feedings are as low as I will go in that respect I refuse to starve the fish for a cure to algae. and lighting is the same as it always has been on the tank.
so it still brings me back to where could it becoming from. not the food or source water. its coming from somewhere that I am not finding and in that respect the mixes of sands is the only that I can contribute to it. O yeah and everything that is vurrently in the tank I have had for over a year that was in my 50 gallon tank so nothing new has been introduced for a while now.
any other ideas on where it could becoming from. If I didnt know how careful I was to not adding any to the tank in the first place I might agree.
Mike
I have done everything in my power to get the nutrients out. you say its nothing in the tank. well how is getting there I am very careful as to what I put in the tank food etc. so I dont ad to my problem and yet it just gets worse.
water changes, polyfilters. abosrbers are not working.
I even got a net that is in front of a powerhead that I have to clean out 2-3 times aday picking up the hair filaments taht get dislodge and get into the current. so I dont get what else I can do. like I said feedings are as low as I will go in that respect I refuse to starve the fish for a cure to algae. and lighting is the same as it always has been on the tank.
so it still brings me back to where could it becoming from. not the food or source water. its coming from somewhere that I am not finding and in that respect the mixes of sands is the only that I can contribute to it. O yeah and everything that is vurrently in the tank I have had for over a year that was in my 50 gallon tank so nothing new has been introduced for a while now.
any other ideas on where it could becoming from. If I didnt know how careful I was to not adding any to the tank in the first place I might agree.
Mike
scotts
Active Member
Dude,
I feel your pain. I was there myself, maybe not as bad but definitely had a problem. I listened to the lfs, added all kinds of chemicals and tried some fish that could help. No go. Here is wht helped me. Of course all are different. I bought 20 red hermit crabs from this site. Cut down on the feeding. When I say I cut down on the feeding I mean that I reduced the amount of food that I gave the fish, I still fed daily. I also pulled out as much of the hair algae as I could. Then I waited. I kept pulling out as much as I could when I saw it. After about 2 months I can say that I fixed the problem.
I think what Bbob was trying to say is that you may get rid of the hair algae by starting over, but you need to find the cause of it first. If not what is to prevent it from happening again?
I think what people are trying to tell you is that rather that put a band-aid the problem by using phosphate sponges and other things, fix the problem by finding what is causing your problem.
Like I said before a good clean up crew and reducing the amount of food that I fed seemed to work for me.
Scott
I feel your pain. I was there myself, maybe not as bad but definitely had a problem. I listened to the lfs, added all kinds of chemicals and tried some fish that could help. No go. Here is wht helped me. Of course all are different. I bought 20 red hermit crabs from this site. Cut down on the feeding. When I say I cut down on the feeding I mean that I reduced the amount of food that I gave the fish, I still fed daily. I also pulled out as much of the hair algae as I could. Then I waited. I kept pulling out as much as I could when I saw it. After about 2 months I can say that I fixed the problem.
I think what Bbob was trying to say is that you may get rid of the hair algae by starting over, but you need to find the cause of it first. If not what is to prevent it from happening again?
I think what people are trying to tell you is that rather that put a band-aid the problem by using phosphate sponges and other things, fix the problem by finding what is causing your problem.
Like I said before a good clean up crew and reducing the amount of food that I fed seemed to work for me.
Scott
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
Mike
I undestand your problem. Been there myself many times.
Despite all your efforts, the algae in your tank is feeding off the waste products from your fish. Without any plant life at all, the nitrogen cycle would build up nitrates and then algae would start growing. sand or no sand, the algae would will be there. At some point plant matter will prevent at least an increase in nitrates and even help lower the level. As the nitrate levels fall the algae growth drops or at least stabilises. So for a given bioload, a given mass of plants result.
The green hair algae grow faster than macros. Therefore, they outgrew your caulpera. You need to reverse that process by removing the hair and adding macros. At some point there will be enough macro to handle your bioload and the hair will be gone. That is the point you are shooting for.
I undestand your problem. Been there myself many times.
Despite all your efforts, the algae in your tank is feeding off the waste products from your fish. Without any plant life at all, the nitrogen cycle would build up nitrates and then algae would start growing. sand or no sand, the algae would will be there. At some point plant matter will prevent at least an increase in nitrates and even help lower the level. As the nitrate levels fall the algae growth drops or at least stabilises. So for a given bioload, a given mass of plants result.
The green hair algae grow faster than macros. Therefore, they outgrew your caulpera. You need to reverse that process by removing the hair and adding macros. At some point there will be enough macro to handle your bioload and the hair will be gone. That is the point you are shooting for.
michaeltx
Moderator
mnreefer the membrains were all changed out less than 2 weeks ago I change them every month since I am on well water. also the company comes through every 6 months and does a complete clean out and new filters. plus I test the water that comes out and all is fine there.
now yall keep saying the same thing and I understand that but I dont feed but flake once a week and the home food every 3 days I only feed what they will eat and thats it nothing more. I even quit adding invert food for awhile thinking maybe that was the cause of them. and still havent added any for about 2 months now. but the levels continue to rise. phosphates are at 3 and nitrates are at 20 (these ratings are from today) thats where the algae growth is. I understand that the hair algae is out competeing the macros I know that but even when I get most of it out it will stay out for about a week during that time I do 5%+ water changes daily and NO change also the macro algae just sits there even though there should be plenty for it to consume since the most of the hair algae is gone right but it doesnt. in my 55 gallon I was pulling the algae out by the handfuls so I know it will grow but there is something keeping it from growing if I could figure out whats up with that it might take off. I started off with a 20 gallon tank cram packed full of macros and it has dwendled out so there was plaenty to do it but the hair algae has continued to thrive.
BTW he skimmer pulls a lot of gunk out but still not enought to help I even added a second skimmer on it. to try to help it out but nothing.
Mike
now yall keep saying the same thing and I understand that but I dont feed but flake once a week and the home food every 3 days I only feed what they will eat and thats it nothing more. I even quit adding invert food for awhile thinking maybe that was the cause of them. and still havent added any for about 2 months now. but the levels continue to rise. phosphates are at 3 and nitrates are at 20 (these ratings are from today) thats where the algae growth is. I understand that the hair algae is out competeing the macros I know that but even when I get most of it out it will stay out for about a week during that time I do 5%+ water changes daily and NO change also the macro algae just sits there even though there should be plenty for it to consume since the most of the hair algae is gone right but it doesnt. in my 55 gallon I was pulling the algae out by the handfuls so I know it will grow but there is something keeping it from growing if I could figure out whats up with that it might take off. I started off with a 20 gallon tank cram packed full of macros and it has dwendled out so there was plaenty to do it but the hair algae has continued to thrive.
BTW he skimmer pulls a lot of gunk out but still not enought to help I even added a second skimmer on it. to try to help it out but nothing.
Mike
michaeltx
Moderator
I actually started to get one the other day but the price the wanted I had to pass. it was a majestic fox and was goregous but for 125 I think that is ridiculous but maybe thats just me.
o and I did think about the DSB but I figured it was the actual sand because I dont remember what type I used since it was a FOWLR that had NO lights on it. and I just added more argonite on top of it to make the DSB.
Mike
o and I did think about the DSB but I figured it was the actual sand because I dont remember what type I used since it was a FOWLR that had NO lights on it. and I just added more argonite on top of it to make the DSB.
Mike
michaeltx
Moderator
probably
lets put it this way when i go to pulling out the hair algae I use a medium sized net probably 4inche or so wide. I place it in the tank so I have somewhere to put the algae as I pll it out. when it gets full and I pull it out of the tank take it to the sink and squeeze all the water out I got a hair ball about the size of a softball I do this 3 or 4 times when I do it. so its a ton of hair algae. and now over the last few days it has moved into the sand bed and took over so right now I think if there is anything left in the sand bed it is getting choked off by the hair algae.
I am trying to get a picture of it but the good camera is on the road so I dont have access to it and the one I got just is awful at takeing pictures.
Mike
lets put it this way when i go to pulling out the hair algae I use a medium sized net probably 4inche or so wide. I place it in the tank so I have somewhere to put the algae as I pll it out. when it gets full and I pull it out of the tank take it to the sink and squeeze all the water out I got a hair ball about the size of a softball I do this 3 or 4 times when I do it. so its a ton of hair algae. and now over the last few days it has moved into the sand bed and took over so right now I think if there is anything left in the sand bed it is getting choked off by the hair algae.
I am trying to get a picture of it but the good camera is on the road so I dont have access to it and the one I got just is awful at takeing pictures.
Mike
clarkiiboi
Active Member
I have not battled this to the extent you are, but I got an idea----before removing the sand/breaking down the tank, could it be possible to take out a little bit of the sand, let it dry out and then do the viniger test on it? That way you will know if your sand was SW worthy? Just an idea---you helped me a few times and I thought I would try to return the favor. At least this way you could know if it is the sand itself. Seems like a legit test to me, I could be off, but...........HTH.
marinefish
Member
Have you try tuexdo urchins? they are not as bad as other urchins. I have two in my 20gallon tank and my tank has been 99% algae free since introducing tuexdo urchin. They dont get too big and dont bulldoze ur corals.. Maybe you might want to give them a try. My 20g use to have a lot of algaes too. I mean like golf ball size amount liek you have indicated. Give the urchin a try and maybe you wont have to take down ur tank.
S
simm
Guest
Mike... Get a horseshoe crab. Mine really cleaned the heck out of my sand bed when I had the same problem.
michaeltx
Moderator
well its not just the sand it rocks and everything. and for some odd reason I cant keep shrimp or urchins alive never have been able to. tried many time and just figured I didnt have what it took.
i did try the vinegar test and some of the sand fizzled but most of it just sit there. the sand that wasnt frizzing was a browner color that I really never noticed being so different.
I might try the horseshoe for a couple of weeks and see what it does though. money issues have caused a delay in the tank remodel.
Mike
i did try the vinegar test and some of the sand fizzled but most of it just sit there. the sand that wasnt frizzing was a browner color that I really never noticed being so different.
I might try the horseshoe for a couple of weeks and see what it does though. money issues have caused a delay in the tank remodel.
Mike
killafins
Active Member
Originally posted by KrUnK
sounds like someone needs a hug
Yes, but i think we really need to talk about michael...
is ur tank by a window? Maybe u should cut the lights off period for a small duration (i mean a couple of days)... {i dunno if this was already said, not time to read but just wanted to help if i could...}
michaeltx
Moderator
its stradle inbetween windows but doesnt get any light from them. and my lighitng period is at 4 hours now I have dropped it also a few weeks ago and if I go any lower od shut ff for a couple of days wont be good on the corals and anemone so I just dont think it wise to stress them more with a blackout for a couple of days.
also this stuff is growing like mad in my hold tank with NO lights on it. but I can take care of that one LOL
BTW I was reading somewhere that there is several types of hair algae and some are hardier to get rid of then others any truth to that??
Mike
also this stuff is growing like mad in my hold tank with NO lights on it. but I can take care of that one LOL
BTW I was reading somewhere that there is several types of hair algae and some are hardier to get rid of then others any truth to that??
Mike