ok to put in dt ?

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Blazin2k6
Ok small update. Just did 2 gallon water change and he seems to be doing excellent today although he is alone now. The 1 small Black and white clown is appearing to be very healthy and being active now and eating pretty much anything i am putting in the tank. He is starting to swim all over the QT. So i will be patient now and leave him in there for 3 weeks like you guys say is best just to make sure he isnt sick or anything and its just hiding inside him. Well i think next week i will buy 1 more black clown to hopefully be able to pair up with the 1 i have. And also a Twin Spot Goby. Do you think i should put those in my qt as well or what ? I will more than likely put the clown in there with the other in QT but what about the goby ? Are gobies less likely to get sickness or what ? Thanks for the information.
You could get the other clown, but hold off on the goby. You still have not given your exact water readings.

 

[mach03infront]

how long was your qt set up for ??? what is your water par?
also is there a relection on the bottom of the tank when the lights are on ??.... that can be a little stressing. if you can put a towel under your qt that would help.
your clown will be fine

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by rudedog40
Just out of curiosity, how big is this QT you're using? You want to be careful with how many fish you add at one time. Being your DT is only a 24G, if you try to put 3 different fish in at one time, you'll most likely crash it. Do you have any other fish in your DT? Based on it's size, you can't have more than 3 or 4 in it in the first place. If these two clowns were your first two fish to put in this tank, why even QT them? Most people here that QT, do it to protect the fish or coral that they already have in their DT. If you've got nothing but LR and inverts in your DT, what disease can you bring in that will affect them? If one of the two clowns did have a disease, they'd infect the QT and one another. So why does it matter? If you had no other fish in your DT, then doing this QT with these two clowns was a waste of time.
i disagree as well. if the first fish are in the DT with all the rock and such, and have a disease such as ich, then:
1) you'd have to get them out of the tank to treat them
2) you'd infect your dt with ich, causing you to keep the tank empty for 6 weeks.
also... according to his other disease post he's just now cycling his DT and has fish in it https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/286720/spots-on-damsel

 

[renogaw]

Originally Posted by Mach03InFront
how long was your qt set up for ??? what is your water par?
also is there a relection on the bottom of the tank when the lights are on ??.... that can be a little stressing. if you can put a towel under your qt that would help.
your clown will be fine

i said the same thing (well, told to paint it) and i don't see anything saying s/he's following anything written here

 

[blazin2k6]

Yeah i put black construction paper underneath the qt tank and it has helped him alot i think. He is swimming all around the tank and doesnt appear to be having any problems anymore. He is eating flake food that i mix with garlic and even eating some frozen marine blend i have for my dottyback. I take the water to have tested at my lfs, its near me and they test it for free and have said everything is perfect. They show me the readings and everything and everything is pretty much zero, SG is 1.023-1.024 ph 8.2 nitrates and ammonia and all that are 0. temp is around 78-80 depending on weather outside. and about what is in my DT , i have 1 orchid dottyback,1 fire shrimp, 1 cleaner shrimp,1 Frogspawn,1 green star polyp,4 hermits, 5 nerite snails,3 nass snails, and 2 astrea snails.
QT Tank is 10 gallon and DT is 24 gal aquapod. Here are two photos of each tank i just took. Thanks for everyones help also. Being i just started this hobby about 5 weeks ago i am learning a great deal and i think you all for taking time to answer my questions and help me out best you can !

 

[rudedog40]

This is what I've read so far about your tank:
It's a 24G Nano.
You've only had it up and running for 5 - 6 weeks.
You may or may not have been through a cycle, and you used the damsel to help speed up the cycle you had.
You have a Dottyback in the tank with inverts and a Frogspawn.
You want to add two clowns and a Twin Spot Gobey.
You now have one clown in a new 10G QT tank.
You don't say what type of lights you have on your DT.
Is this information correct?
If so, then this is my take on your DT:
Before adding any fish to the tank, you should have insured the tank went through a complete cycle. Based on the experiences I've read here, a tank cycle takes 5 - 6 weeks to complete. This also depends on the substrate and LR you have in your tank. For a 24G, you should have at least 35 lbs. of LR (looking at your pics, not sure how much you have - does look nice though). Once you have insured the tank has cycled, you can begin adding livestock. Most people start with a hardy fish (like a chromis, damsel, etc.) and also inverts. You decided to go with a Dottyback. By the pictures, he seems OK. However, to insure the stability of your tank, you should wait at least another month before adding another fish. By the information in this thread, you tried adding two. Unfortunately, one of the two clowns died. Now that you have one, I would do what you're doing now, and QT that clown for at least three weeks before adding it to your DT. Once you're sure he's healthy, you can add him to your DT. When you put him in, start checking all your chemicals levels at least a couple times per week to see how much of a bio load the two fish have on your tank. This will help determine how many more fish you can add. If you do want to add more, you're probably limited to two more small fish, based on the size of your tank. I'd say another small clown and the goby would be about it. But I would add them over the course of the next couple of months.
The reason I asked about the lights, is because of the frogspawn. This is a quote from an online seller on that coral:
The Green Frogspawn Coral gets its name from its unique polyps, which resemble a mass of frog eggs. This unique and attractive LPS coral is great for beginners. It requires moderate water currents and moderate to high reef lighting for proper health. It is important that proper calcium and alkalinity levels are maintained. Use of Kalkwasser Mix or a calcium reactor will be of great benefit.
So unless you have a Metal Hallide, PC, or T5 light on you tank, the coral will most likely die off. As it states above, you need to monitor the calcium and alkalinity in the tank, and also need adequate water flow. If all you have for flow is the HOB filter that came with the tank, I don't think there's enough flow for this coral. You may want to invest in a good PH if you haven't already done so.

 

[blazin2k6]

Thanks for all those comments rudedog40. Yeah well i have only stock lights that came with the aquapod. 1x32w SunPaq
Dual Daylight & 1x32w SunPaq Dual Actinic , that is what lights it came with. I've had the frogspawn for i'd say a little over a week now and it has been doing great i think. You can see in the pick it is really open wide and everything. The clowns i never had in DT. Put them straight into qt. Got from *****. Will never buy there again. Horrible customer relations they have. I told them about my experience with the clowns and they acted like they could care less. Told them i bet they lose alot of customers being like that and they say nope we dont lose any customers. i Say well you lost my business and the manager just goes oh ok. LOL. well anyways my clown seems to be doing great. He seems to love running in the current of my qt and back thru it again and again. lol. well thanks for the help. I will buy a test kit tomorrow that way i dont have to keep taking water samples to lfs. And what would i need to do to upgrade my lights on dt to MH ? I WOULD love to upgrade them.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by Blazin2k6
Thanks for all those comments rudedog40. Yeah well i have only stock lights that came with the aquapod. 1x32w SunPaq
Dual Daylight & 1x32w SunPaq Dual Actinic , that is what lights it came with. I've had the frogspawn for i'd say a little over a week now and it has been doing great i think. You can see in the pick it is really open wide and everything. The clowns i never had in DT. Put them straight into qt. Got from *****. Will never buy there again. Horrible customer relations they have. I told them about my experience with the clowns and they acted like they could care less. Told them i bet they lose alot of customers being like that and they say nope we dont lose any customers. i Say well you lost my business and the manager just goes oh ok. LOL. well anyways my clown seems to be doing great. He seems to love running in the current of my qt and back thru it again and again. lol. well thanks for the help. I will buy a test kit tomorrow that way i dont have to keep taking water samples to lfs. And what would i need to do to upgrade my lights on dt to MH ? I WOULD love to upgrade them.

That sounds like a Power Compact light. Do you have what looks like 4 small bulbs? Two bulbs will look like they're attached to the same connector. By your description, it's sounds like you have a dual-bulb PC Daylight bulb, and a dual-bulb 32W Blue Actinic bulb. If that's the case, I believe you have 128W of PC light from that fixture (I'm not 100% sure here, seasoned members more familiar with that fixture can correct me if I'm wrong). Considering you need 4W - 5W of light for every gallon (96W - 120W total lighting for your tank) to host a frogspawn, you should be OK if my calculations are correct.

 

[blazin2k6]

Great .... Nice to know my frogspawn will be ok. Well sad news for the clown. I woke up this morning and he was laying on his side passed away. Bad luck with the clowns i have. I am thinking ok from now on i will not buy anything from ***** and i am 2nd guessing the functions of a QT now. As i dont have a million dollars in my DT i think i will only buy from the place i got my orchid dottyback and i will put the new arrivals in DT and if i notice something bad about them, then ill put in QT. I think i can trust the place i got my dottyback though. Seems i havent lost anything in my DT yet so that is good thing i think I will also wait a few months i think until i get more clowns that way i could have my DT well established and be able to hopefully host some type of BTA. I will just try and go with a Twin Spot goby for now and have just 2 fish in display for the moment. Thanks for all your help with QT questions everyone.

 

[renogaw]

please change your mind on no qt. if you get a sick fish you will contaminate your whole DT. it is up to you, but if you're going to do something, you should do it right.
i honestly do not think it was the fact that you got them from *****, my first perc is still alive and i got it from ***** over a year ago. by not setting up your QT properly (bare bottom with no covering, not having your own test kits, no temperature control, etc) makes me think something could have been prevented.
your QT should be a nitrate nightmare, and without having nitrates in there makes me think you didn't cycle the qt. after putting the fish in, you probably spiked ammonia and couldnt tell because you don't do your own tests.
what do you use for filtration in this QT? how did you cycle it?
you say "depending on the weather" so you have no control over the temperature in the tank. this could have been an issue as well. over night the temp could have dipped, or the temp could have gone over, but fluctuating temps are a danger to fish as well.
i think if you properly setup a qt you'll have no problems.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by renogaw
please change your mind on no qt. if you get a sick fish you will contaminate your whole DT. it is up to you, but if you're going to do something, you should do it right.
i honestly do not think it was the fact that you got them from *****, my first perc is still alive and i got it from ***** over a year ago. by not setting up your QT properly (bare bottom with no covering, not having your own test kits, no temperature control, etc) makes me think something could have been prevented.
your QT should be a nitrate nightmare, and without having nitrates in there makes me think you didn't cycle the qt. after putting the fish in, you probably spiked ammonia and couldnt tell because you don't do your own tests.
what do you use for filtration in this QT? how did you cycle it?
you say "depending on the weather" so you have no control over the temperature in the tank. this could have been an issue as well. over night the temp could have dipped, or the temp could have gone over, but fluctuating temps are a danger to fish as well.
i think if you properly setup a qt you'll have no problems.

Although a QT tank is a good idea, I don't think it's a neccessity for the smaller tanks. Most of these Nano tanks can only hold 3 to 4 fish. If she keeps them all healthy, and adds one with a disease, medications can help fight if off. If that doesn't work, she can then put the fish in a QT. The main problem she is having is she's moving a little too fast with adding livestock to her DT. My understanding is this tank is only 5 - 6 weeks old. Her DT has hardly completed cycling, and everyone here pushed her to start a QT to put these new clowns in. So she puts these two fish in yet another brand new tank with little cover, a reflecting bottom, and obviously no heater. So they end up dying anyway. She probably would have had better luck with them by putting them in her DT in the first place. At least it had a condusive environment and is somewhat stable.
Blazin - I would go ahead and put the goby in the DT. Make sure where ever you get it, follow the proper acclimation procedures. However, I wouldn't put it in until you get your own chemical test kits, and insure all your levels are adequate to maintain a new fish. You really need to let your DT mature a little more before adding new livestock. In the mean time, go ahead and get the QT cycled and established as well. Go by an inexpensive heater to put in it to insure the temp stays constant. After you know the QT is stable, you can then start looking at clowns again. They're more likely to get some of the infectious diseases (Brookynella, ich, etc.) than the goby you want to get. I'd go ahead and put them in the QT tank for the 3 week duration so you know you won't infect the other two fish you have in the DT.

 

[blazin2k6]

Thanks for the response rudedog & renogaw, first rudedog, i am not a girl. LOL. Does it say that in my profile or something ? If so then i need to update that cuz that is some crazy stuff reading your message and you constantly say she and her. lol. Well i will buy a API Test kit tomorrow. Is that an ok brand ? I think its only 20.99 at the LFS i go to. Also i was told the qt should have a bare bottom. I have about 10 lbs of LS leftover from what i had put in my DT to start out with. Do you think i should add the rest of my LS into the QT ? It has been sitting in a bag closed up. Or i could go buy about a 10 bag of LS , whichever works i guess. And also i have a heater on my tank. Cheapy from walmart. 50 WATT heater that says it automatically adjusts to 78 Degrees, But i did notice when i woke up this morning the temperature on the tank was 70 degrees but most of the day yesterday it was at 78-80. could that have been why my 2nd clown died was from temperature ? doesnt seem like that big of a drop but i guess it could be a reason i dont know. He seemed to be very active and healthy and was even swim around the tank at midnight last night when i last looked at the tank. Well thanks for the info and yeah if i do get some more clowns i will let the QT tank stay and i will look after it empty and continue to do water changes on it weekly or whatever. Oh and it is just a 10 gal from walmart that came with basic lights and basic filter for 10 gals, So what would you recommend me doing to keep this QT tank to Cycle good ? Thanks for the help ! I am truly learning alot here. I just feel so bad that those two clowns didnt make it I had bought all kinds of food for them and the garlic stuff to get them to have an appetite and still didnt work. Made me feel so bad. And the fact that they are kind of expensive compared to your normal clown. But anyways. Thanks for the help and let me know what i should do.

 

[rudedog40]

Sorry about the girl referenece. I thought I read in one of the posts that referred to 'she'... Anyway, I would do as everyone suggests and keep the QT bare-bottom. The reason for this is because if you ever need to treat one of your fish for a disease that requires medicine (i.e Formulin for clown Brookynella), you don't want LR or LS in the tank. It will absorb some of the medicine and your sick fish won't get the proper dosage. A 10 degree drop in temperature, especially down to 70, definitely could have put the clown over the edge. He was already stressed out as it was, and I'm sure the temp drop didn't help. I'd check the heater and make sure it works properly for future usage of your QT. Also, since the tank doesn't have any fish, and you're not putting food in it, there's no need to do any water changes. Once you know the QT has cycled, just keep the filter running. I'd turn the light off and keep the heater temp down so it doesn't promote algea growth. When you do get ready to add another fish, check all the chemical readings about a week or so before you put the fish in. If everything checks out, drop the fish in and start monitoring the levels.
As far as the test kit - make sure at minimum it tests for Ph, ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites. A calcium and alkalinity test is needed for your DT since you have corals in it. Also look into getting a refractometer. It's a more accurate way to test you SG (salt levels). You'll definitely need this if you ever need to do a hyposalinity on a fish with ich.

 

[renogaw]

a temperature drop that much, then getting raised that fast, would be a shock to an already fragile fish system.
as for cycling the tank, i put a sponge filter in my DT for a while, and that basically became my biofilter. you could do the same thing with some live rock covering a filter intake (I don't know if you answered what filter you're using). or i've seen a picture where the inlet of a powerhead had the same filter over it, creating some place for the bacteria to colonize.
i disagree with rudedog though quite a bit, and to each his own i guess. I personally will NEVER add a fish to my DT, and i didn't when i first started, without qt'ing. Even though you don't have a ton of rock in the tank, getting a fish out could mean totally removing all of it just to get a fish out. also, by putting a fish into your DT (even though there arent any others) if you cannot observe it without it hiding in the rock and such, how can you tell if it's sick? also, if you put the fish in the DT and it dies, then the clean up crew may eat it before you even know it is dead.
also, i keep my QT running all the time, and i also put in food to keep the bacteria alive. every time i do a water change in the DT, i put the water from the DT into the QT to help transfer more bacteria in. Yes, most bacteria is on the rock and in the sand, but there is bacteria in the water (people have said they get infected from cuts and such, so where did the infection come from if no bacteria in the water). If you keep the water going, if you get a sick fish you don't have to wait to recycle the QT. If you get a fish that is showing signs of aggression, you don't have to wait for the QT to seperate the fish. it makes sense to keep it going. Think of it as an insurance policy.

 

[blazin2k6]

So do you think i need to change all the water in the qt since maybe it was 2 sick fish in it or not ? Also i have the tank running and havent stopped it since. Been going about it like i have a fish in there. Although i havent put any food in the tank i have been turning the light on a few hours during the day and keep the heater going. Thats about it for my qt. Thanks for all the help. I won't add the LS.

 

[rudedog40]

Originally Posted by Blazin2k6
So do you think i need to change all the water in the qt since maybe it was 2 sick fish in it or not ? Also i have the tank running and havent stopped it since. Been going about it like i have a fish in there. Although i havent put any food in the tank i have been turning the light on a few hours during the day and keep the heater going. Thats about it for my qt. Thanks for all the help. I won't add the LS.

The light and heater have nothing to do with keeping the tank cycled. It's better to keep them off when not using it to house livestock. Like I said, the warmer temp will promote algae. You can follow renogaw's suggestions for keeping the QT available for when you need it.

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by Blazin2k6
So do you think i need to change all the water in the qt since maybe it was 2 sick fish in it or not ? Also i have the tank running and havent stopped it since. Been going about it like i have a fish in there. Although i havent put any food in the tank i have been turning the light on a few hours during the day and keep the heater going. Thats about it for my qt. Thanks for all the help. I won't add the LS.
Did you buy your own test kit yet? Did you test the QT params? Being the qt was new it may have spiked causing stress to your fish. Please qt your fish. You do not want to have to tear your display down to catch fish.

 

[renogaw]

i keep the light going, i keep the heater going. i deal with the algae by keeping snails and hermits in there, which also help with keeping the biological filter going. the algae actually is being very helpful this time--it seems my bicolor blenny is loving it i've been seeing him eating it off the pvc and walls.
but i guess if you wanted to you could turn both off, but i'd bet the amount of electricity used would be less than a computer being used.

 

[petjunkie]

Kinda off topic of quarentine but twin spot gobies are pretty difficult to keep as they do best in pairs and often only eat pods, a diet your tank won't support if they don't switch to prepared foods. I'd look into a different fish, but keep up the qt tank, maybe just let it sit for a while being ghost fed to make sure it is fully cycled, adding two fish to a new tank like that can cause small spikes to happen even if cycled, plus the temp swings would be a major stressor. Technically a tank is never "cycled" it's always going through dieoffs but the bacterias consume each other before it becomes toxic, in a new tank it's still working things out, just go slow. Add your small pair of clowns then wait a month before adding anything else.

 

[blazin2k6]

Thanks for the advice petjunkie. And thanks for the other advice from the rest of you as well. Reno and rude, Yall been a great help. Everyone who has commented. Yes i have just left the QT running and will wait until it cycles. So far my LFS did not get any of the fish i wanted this week so i will have to wait at least another week before i could add anything anyways. I had ordered a Twin Spot Goby at another LFS but i only ordered 1 and i was reading yesterday how if i have only 1 then it will be feeling lonely so i think it would be best to go with 2. Would 1 Orchid Dottyback,2 Black Clowns, & 2 Twin Spot Goby be too much in that tank ? 24 Gal Aquapod. They are all pretty small fish i believe so i would think it would be ok but i just dont know so let me know if you think so. Thats only like 15 inches of fish. I read somewhere or something on a post that says for every gallon you should only have 1 inch of fish or something. Is that right or do i remember it wrong ?