OMG!!! Enough is enough

[turningtim]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2961583
You mean the two years of surplus the Republican Congress passed and forced him to sign by closing down the Government?
And then somehow GW Bush gets in office and the congress doesn't have a clue? Especially in the last 4 years of having the Government all to themselves?

OH thats right Clinton had GH Bush to thank and now Obama is going to thank GW Bush for all the wonderful things he did........

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2961407
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/sc...9epa.html?_r=1
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide
Not even in Ofice two months and this guy has spent more money than I thought possible. Now he wants to hinder a field of work by forcing them to cap carbon dioxide (last I checked plants need this gas) causing their costs to increase thus potentially causing job lose due to needing to cut costs.
The 275 more billion and more

[hr]
legislation to lower house payments, what about us that have been paying the

[hr]
we agreed to? Screw us though.....
This guy needs to slow down...someone just punch me in the face...seriously, grab a brick and bash my face in. It would be less painful than watching this crap.
Yeah, he is going to be moderate, look at his cabinite appointments...
Originally Posted by Jimmy 4
http:///forum/post/2961438
If it was Clinton that messed up the economy than why couldn't Bush fix it? If the economy takes an up turn all you republicans will say that it was all because of bush, and if keeps going down it will all be Obamas fault. People are so blind when it comes to politics. You should care more about what they do. What did bush do that was so great? I can't think of one good thing that came out of his presidency. He had 8 years to do something and it seems to me that in those 8 years everything in this country has gotten worse.
wow, The tux shop called, they want their tux back.

Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2961544
Where was all this concern when the last administration was throwing good money after bad? Think Sen. McCain could have fixed this mess in 30 days? Please! From where I stand Republicans need not point out who and how much money has or will be spent. They had their shot and they blew it!
So because, Bush spent money like a democrat, conservative republicans can't point out that Obama just signed a purely deficit spending bill, that would equal the deficit Bush ran up in first term? If it is wrong it is wrong no matter who is doing it...
And no McCain was fiscal Bush on steroids. They'd have blown a lot of money. a Trillion dollars big, probably not but hey 500 billion or a trillion is still the same when you don't have it.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2961578
If the Republicans were just so unhappy than how did all that cash get passed congress when they were in charge?
And you would be one that no matter what President Obama does he will be wrong or just reaping the benefits of the mastermind GW Bush! Right?

No, I give Obama credit for saying he does not support the fairness doctrine. That is good in my eyes.
Compare the money spent between 2001-2006 and look at the numbers from the economy. Then, come 2006-2008 the dems took control of congress, how much more was spent between that period, and what happened to the economy. Now compare the spending to all 8 years of Bush to the first 2 months of Obama....see a significant difference yet, and he is talking 275 billion dollars more even.....
See here is what you don't realize, most of Bush's spending came due to war, Wars end, there is an end in sight for that spending. This latest bill is for government programs, new ones as well.....have you ever seen a government program suspended or stopped once they start? No, so not only are these bills huge, these programs will continue to be funded ...thus draining our deficit far more than any war that actually will end.
That right there is the difference. Now Bush did do a lot of social spending....which I disagree with completely. However, I don't see any stoppage of the out of control spending Bush did in Obama's administration. The democrats cried and cried about the spending and the deficit, now, that no longer matters.
Atleast Bush's war spending will have an end..........and can show a PROVEN result when it is said and done.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
http:///forum/post/2961544
Please! From where I stand Republicans need not point out who and how much money has or will be spent. They had their shot and they blew it!
Assuming, for a moment for the sake of a clean argument that the GOP did screw up previously, that does not mean a free ticket for any subsequent party/administration to do whatever they want.
As an independent, you should be careful here because this argument sounds a lot like those liberals who shout "YOU LOST, DEAL WITH IT, IT'S OUR TURN"
Again, assuming that the Bush administration made bad choices, they are only a part of the party at large which is being told now to shut up. The alleged failures of the Bush administration does not constitute valid reasoning that the entire GOP should just lay back and let democrats do whatever they want.
Even if the entire GOP was equally responsible for the past, that doesn't mean that they are incapable to see that current actions are a mistake.
Don't throw yourself into the pool of liberals who now think that the results of the election and/or past decisions of the GOP have given them a universal trump card that they can play to let nobody challenge the forward momentum of their plans.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
http:///forum/post/2961606
No, I give Obama credit for saying he does not support the fairness doctrine. That is good in my eyes.
I'm going to put something out there for all of us to look back on some day.
"The fairness doctine by any other name is still the fairness doctrine."

 

[jimmy 4]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2961581
See any more terrorist attacks on the homeland after 9-11?
You're welcome...
9-11 the old fallback. How many where there before 9-11? And the USS Cole doesn't count. The terrorist boat should have been taken out before it came anywhere near the Cole.

 

[wattsupdoc]

Originally Posted by Jimmy 4
http:///forum/post/2961438
If it was Clinton that messed up the economy than why couldn't Bush fix it? If the economy takes an up turn all you republicans will say that it was all because of bush, and if keeps going down it will all be Obamas fault. People are so blind when it comes to politics. You should care more about what they do. What did bush do that was so great? I can't think of one good thing that came out of his presidency. He had 8 years to do something and it seems to me that in those 8 years everything in this country has gotten worse.
Kind of an hypocrisy here don't you think? Maybe you should listen to yourself? Everybody wants to blame or lay credit on the president for everything that goes on in the world while he's in office. If you ask me, liberating Iraq was an incredible thing. Keeping the homeland safe after Sept 11th was an incredible thing.
There is a big difference between these two presidents, one believed in doing the right thing regardless of what made him popular. The other reacts solely off the popularity it gives him. Our new president misses the campaign trail and all the glory it gave him.

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by Jimmy 4
http:///forum/post/2961650
9-11 the old fallback. How many where there before 9-11? And the USS Cole doesn't count. The terrorist boat should have been taken out before it came anywhere near the Cole.
Let's go back to the beginning of H's presidency.
December 1988 - Pan Am 103
February 1993 - World Trade Center I
April 1995 - Oklahoma City
Aug 1998 - US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania
Oct 2000 - USS Cole - Yes it counts.
Sept 2001 - World Trade Center II
Since then..... anything as major? Since the rise of terrorism, there has never been such a long period gone by without a major terrorist attack.

 

[tank a holic]

I work in a coal fired power plant and I can tell you a few things you may not know
1. coal is the must abundant, cheap, reliable, efficient fuel in the US this includes natural gas, nuclear, and oil
2. the big hyperbolic towers (like the one on the simpsons) that has all the gas coming out of it and people say its pollution... well its not its steam, pure, clean, non polluting steam
3. if everyone would stop chopping down trees everywhere and paving over all the grass, we would still have enough plant life to convert all the co2 back to oxygen
4. American Electric Power and Alstom Energy Inc. have teamed up to create a working carbon capture system.....
however it has only been tested at 10% of one units capacity...
most plants have at least 2 units (usually 4, mine has 6)
so it is yet to be proven, and lord knows how expensive it will be

 

[beazalbob69]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
http:///forum/post/2961581
See any more terrorist attacks on the homeland after 9-11?
You're welcome...
LOL

Why didnt the Bush Admin stop the 1st one?

For the life of me I simply cannot understand how anybody could possibly think GWB was a good president. Years of war that we cannot win against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 full of people that will never accept our way of life. Why would you waste our money that way? He is a criminal and should be held accountable for his actions against the USA!
I hate politics

 

[wattsupdoc]

Funny, even the messiah reports that the war appears to be won in Iraq.

 

[t316]

Everyone take a break from politics for a moment and let me ask a stupid question...well, actually it's not stupid, my 6 year old asked me and I really couldn't anwser it. While we were driving the other day, I was explaining to the kids why we were cutting back and why we couldn't go out to eat as often. They started questioning me. I answered that everything is a little tight right now, people don't have as much money, yada..yada...yada. From nowhere, my 6 yr. old asks in a very serious tone...."Dad, whose got it all? Where did all the money go?" He wasn't thinking in terms of the total economic picture. He thinks in terms of his allowance, coins and cash.
I scratched my head. The people don't have it, unless a wealthy few are hoarding it. The banks don't have it, because they are in trouble. Is it overseas where we overpurchased ourselves? I don't think the Gov. has it, since they are having to send us into a deeper deficit to give out more. Where is the money, the physical money that was changing hands just two to three years ago?

 

[wattsupdoc]

Thats the problem, the money wasnt ever there. It was all speculative money. Like a big pyramid scam the bottom fell out of. Once the spending stopped......

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by beazalbob69
http:///forum/post/2961675
Years of war that we cannot win
Define "Win."

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2961689
Everyone take a break from politics for a moment and let me ask a stupid question...well, actually it's not stupid, my 6 year old asked me and I really couldn't anwser it. While we were driving the other day, I was explaining to the kids why we were cutting back and why we couldn't go out to eat as often. They started questioning me. I answered that everything is a little tight right now, people don't have as much money, yada..yada...yada. From nowhere, my 6 yr. old asks in a very serious tone...."Dad, whose got it all? Where did all the money go?" He wasn't thinking in terms of the total economic picture. He thinks in terms of his allowance, coins and cash.
I scratched my head. The people don't have it, unless a wealthy few are hoarding it. The banks don't have it, because they are in trouble. Is it overseas where we overpurchased ourselves? I don't think the Gov. has it, since they are having to send us into a deeper deficit to give out more. Where is the money, the physical money that was changing hands just two to three years ago?
Most of it was basically credit that was bought and resold over and over, so it never existed except in the credit form. when people couldn't pay the credit back the money that never existed is what caused this mess as companies that initially gave out the credit and resold it could not recoup what was suppossed to be there.....

 

[scsinet]

Originally Posted by T316
http:///forum/post/2961689
The people don't have it, unless a wealthy few are hoarding it.
The state of the economy determines how much money there is. "How much money there is" is measured against the value of tangibles. When the value of those tangibles drops, the amount of money drops.
It's a great question for a 6 year old, but he couldn't possibly be expected to understand that.
In the end, this financial crisis that is going on is the collapse of a gargantuan ponzi scheme. The banks paid off investors with the money from earlier investors. Eventually, the whole thing collapses it and the market resets itself, which is exactly what is happening now.
I can tell you though that a lot of money is overseas, tied up in American companies operating abroad in order to escape the punishing tax system that is imposed on corporations here.
If you think about how many companies are operating abroad... how many jobs that would be going to Americans if those companies had some incentive to bring those companies back here... if you relieved them of the cruel taxation that is placed on them if they operated here, they'd start coming back. Of course, most Americans don't understand that, they see it as "corporate greed."

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jimmy 4
http:///forum/post/2961650
9-11 the old fallback. How many where there before 9-11? And the USS Cole doesn't count. The terrorist boat should have been taken out before it came anywhere near the Cole.
How about the first Trade Center attack? Our Embassies in Africa, Kobal Towers in Saudi, etc.
The USS Cole doesn't count??? Tell that to the families of the dead. The attack was terrorist based.
You asked what President Bush did; I answered. It's up to you whether or not the success of the global war on Terror is significant.

 

[tank a holic]

so we shouldn't fight wars we cant win????
ok no more war on terror, no more war on drugs, no more war to racism
btw we will win the war in iraq unless we pull everyone out and let all those that have died (some dear friends of mine... im a veteren) be in vain

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by beazalbob69
http:///forum/post/2961675
LOL

Why didnt the Bush Admin stop the 1st one?

For the life of me I simply cannot understand how anybody could possibly think GWB was a good president. Years of war that we cannot win against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 full of people that will never accept our way of life. Why would you waste our money that way? He is a criminal and should be held accountable for his actions against the USA!
I hate politics

A war we can't win? Really? There's a couple hundred thousand troops from around the globe who would argue with you on that point.
Invading Iraq had nothing to do with converting Iraqis to our way of life. And, if you would take the time to read the Congressional Joint Authorization to use force in Iraq you would see it had nothing to do with 9-11; Other than preventing Saddam from someday supplying the weapons he had used on Iran and his own people to the hands of terrorist groups he had supported in the past like Hamas and Hezbollah.
Criminal? I can see why you hate politics.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by tank a holic
http:///forum/post/2961718
so we shouldn't fight wars we cant win????
ok no more war on terror, no more war on drugs, no more war to racism
btw we will win the war in iraq unless we pull everyone out and let all those that have died (some dear friends of mine... im a veteren) be in vain

Forgot the war on Poverty.
I hear comments such as "a war we can not win" and wonder, how did Americans get to the point where they doubt their fellow country man's abilities. When did we become a country of people that just "give up" and say oh well. Why can't we win in Afghanistan and Iraq, someone that thinks we can't win please explain in detail why we can't?
I am so glad our fore fathers during the revolutionary war, did not have the same kind of attitude against a better armed, better trained, and larger force.....
Only weak minded people say you can't do something without following up with the logical reason why it can't be done.....Then again, people said humans would never be able to fly......and had logical reason's why it wasn't possible. Guess it goes to show with the determination and desire even the impossible is do able....