Opinions on filter set up for 29?

[diamondjim]

All my tanks in the past have had an external hang on power filter for mechinal and bio...but I'm considering making a depature from that on the new tank. The more I work with it the more suspect the HOB does little more than move a little water.
Current setup is 20 lbs dead rock, with 5-10 lbs basic LR and 2 lbs high grade LR on top. Adding another 20lbs of dead rock tomorrow. Current LR will "seed" the rest and make rooting out LFS parasites a whole lot easier. Just takes time and I'm in no rush.
Running slightly under sized air powered skimmer...this I'll upgrade soon.
Thinking of pulling HOB out right and replacing with 2 pumps...a 190 gal/hr unit that drives water long ways across tank and 80 gal/hr pump to drive water across the flow. Idea is to make water tumble instead of a driving straight line. These are sumps that will be operated more like powerheads. This will be the ONLY mechanics to the tank...to pump a good volume of water through the LR.
Tank is just over 1 month old, but had a fully "live" start...live SSB, LR and real sea water (10% mix with Instant Ocean to start)...so it's farther along the curve than a sterile build.
Goal of the tank is modest corals, heavy on inverts and light on fish. Looking for intense, chaotic detail, every square inch will have something living.
So my questions...
Too soon to pull HOB?
Should HOB get pulled at all?
The HOB has done OK for me in the past, but I've never run powerheads. I don't change the filter pads, ever. They plug up with bio mass eventually and then water flows over the pads instead of through them...also aerate external chamber without cover. Seems to me LR does pretty much the same thing...so why bother with HOB if I can push more water through the rock?

 

[earlybird]

The HOB filter should be used as a detritus trap. I only have 2 fish in my 29 and I still have plenty of detritus. Your rock will be enough for your bio filter. I would consider a sump. I have a 10g under my 29. You should change out our at least squeeze out your filters weekly so you can remove the detritus and organics that the filter collects.

 

[diamondjim]

The theory I'm trying to work is that less is better.
Step 1: Ween tank off HOB, fuges, external anything.
Step 2: Swap out Power Heads for massive air powered pumps with no impellers or moving parts.
I suspect impellers and filter pads damage plankton, slowing down the development of the tank. Currently, my 1.1 gallon stick nano...water pump with no moving parts, is holding good numbers and developing rapidly. It's proving more difficult to scale up that concept to the 29 than I suspected. Trying to retro fit is part of the problem...the 1.1 tank+hardware was designed and built from scratch to operate this way...the 29 started life based on what I previously knew, not the new ideas I've begun to wonder about in the past few weeks.
I may have to bite the bullet on this 29 and just accept the HOB as a part of life. Early tests show the best thing I can do for this 29 right now is sit on my hands. (I take the 5th on how bad the number got after a simple experiment...) Besides...I got this notion for a bizarre Pentium powered 20 gal nano...

 

[earlybird]

Okay I'm not sure I understand what you are planning to do but I don't understand why you think you need to "ween" the tank off the HOB? You should have plenty of nitrifying bacteria in your rocks and sand. The bacteria colonies or colony that has attached to any filter in your HOB is minimal when you have sufficient rock and sand. The only mechanical filtration that I have is some cut bonded blue filter wedged between my baffles in my sump. I replace it every week. Just toss the old and insert new. I'm sure that I'm removing the bacteria housed on that filter but again it's minimal.

 

[juice_1080]

Originally Posted by diamondjim
...I got this notion for a bizarre Pentium powered 20 gal nano...
I am intrigued to what exactly you mean by this. The only thing that I am picturing is an in-computer fishtank or a fishtank sitting on a pentium chip.

 

[juice_1080]

Originally Posted by diamondjim
All my tanks in the past have had an external hang on power filter for mechinal and bio...but I'm considering making a depature from that on the new tank. The more I work with it the more suspect the HOB does little more than move a little water.
Current setup is 20 lbs dead rock, with 5-10 lbs basic LR and 2 lbs high grade LR on top. Adding another 20lbs of dead rock tomorrow. Current LR will "seed" the rest and make rooting out LFS parasites a whole lot easier. Just takes time and I'm in no rush.
Running slightly under sized air powered skimmer...this I'll upgrade soon.
Thinking of pulling HOB out right and replacing with 2 pumps...a 190 gal/hr unit that drives water long ways across tank and 80 gal/hr pump to drive water across the flow. Idea is to make water tumble instead of a driving straight line. These are sumps that will be operated more like powerheads. This will be the ONLY mechanics to the tank...to pump a good volume of water through the LR.
Tank is just over 1 month old, but had a fully "live" start...live SSB, LR and real sea water (10% mix with Instant Ocean to start)...so it's farther along the curve than a sterile build.
Goal of the tank is modest corals, heavy on inverts and light on fish. Looking for intense, chaotic detail, every square inch will have something living.
So my questions...
Too soon to pull HOB?
Should HOB get pulled at all?
The HOB has done OK for me in the past, but I've never run powerheads. I don't change the filter pads, ever. They plug up with bio mass eventually and then water flows over the pads instead of through them...also aerate external chamber without cover. Seems to me LR does pretty much the same thing...so why bother with HOB if I can push more water through the rock?
I have a HOB as well I would say if you started changing pads once a month you would do better. It traps detritus which will slow the flow. Which will in turn affect other things if you don't have any other source of flow.

 

[saltwaternewb]

Originally Posted by diamondjim
The theory I'm trying to work is that less is better.
Step 2: Swap out Power Heads for massive air powered pumps with no impellers or moving parts.
Explain more. I am interested in what equipment you are wanting to use exactly. I like the idea of less is more as well. I am in the planning stages of a 29 gallon tank and I was planning on simply using a HOB AC110 for some mechanical filtration by using some floss and a place to keep some macro as well as the heater and use a closed loop 1 intake 2 output water movement setup. That way at least there is no power heads or heater in the tank.

 

[diamondjim]

My 1.1 gal nano uses a custom home built skimmer...it sucks water at the bottom, ejects it near the top, with a "reaction" chamber above that. This creates a nice gentle flow for the critters...maybe moves 10 gal/hr. Inside the skimmer is nothing more than a airstone...air bubbles alone lift water 12 inches...making it a water pump with no moving parts. Trying to scale up this idea to move 300 gal/hr is bit harder to do...I'm working on it.
As for the aqua-puter...I have a scrap dual P-II 333mhz server I plan to put IN a fish tank. It will run a web page...so quite litterally people will be logging on to my fish tank, with web cam, livestock and status reports. Estimated volume is around 20 gallons, built from scratch in plexi. Originally I wanted to seal up all the holes in a large server case and have fish swimming around the cables and stuff...but even if that were possible it would reduce the viewing area drastically. Far easier to pull mobo, build tank around it then locate components for best viewing. 12V hard drive supply lines from PC power LEDs, puter heat warms tank...looking for 12V air pumps too, though not sure PC power supply can handle the load. (As in air compressor to plug in to car cig lighter...)
This build will incorportate all sorts of ideas I can't retro fit into the 29, filters will be invisible.
"Weening" the 29 off of HOB means turning it off for longer periods while the tank establishes a new equilibrium.

 

[bjoe23]

I have a Bio Wheel on my 29, works great! Its all you really need in my opinion.