Out With Vista... In With 7...
- Thread starter ruaround
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stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by renogaw
http:///forum/post/2909513
Dak, from what i gather you're one of the lucky ones.
I absolutely love the Mac/PC commercials, but it's just funny that you see mac advertising more than PC even though they say PC advertises instead of fixing problems.
Doesn't that drive you nuts? I mean mac exists because of their advertising and the Ipod and they mock Microsoft for it. Not that it matters, after all the iCult will eat it up.
http:///forum/post/2909513
Dak, from what i gather you're one of the lucky ones.
I absolutely love the Mac/PC commercials, but it's just funny that you see mac advertising more than PC even though they say PC advertises instead of fixing problems.
shogun323
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2909804
Doesn't that drive you nuts? I mean mac exists because of their advertising and the Ipod and they mock Microsoft for it. Not that it matters, after all the iCult will eat it up.
Give me one solid technical reason why Macs are so terrible.
All OS's have issues have shortcomings but you insist their product is garbage. Please explain why.
I can agree their marketing and and appeal to culture play a large role in their current success but is that wrong? Furthermore, there is also a reason they are preferred by people working in niche markets.
http:///forum/post/2909804
Give me one solid technical reason why Macs are so terrible.
All OS's have issues have shortcomings but you insist their product is garbage. Please explain why.
I can agree their marketing and and appeal to culture play a large role in their current success but is that wrong? Furthermore, there is also a reason they are preferred by people working in niche markets.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by shogun323
http:///forum/post/2910023
Give me one solid technical reason why Macs are so terrible.
All OS's have issues have shortcomings but you insist their product is garbage. Please explain why.
I can agree their marketing and and appeal to culture play a large role in their current success but is that wrong? Furthermore, there is also a reason they are preferred by people working in niche markets.
Price, and the iCult following are my serious concerns.
They've addressed some of the compatibility issues. I don't like the layout of their OS. I HATE the way you browse files.
But above all and the problem with macs is they license programming of software. Basically they say what you can do with your computer. With a PC, anybody, can write software for a PC. So you can do whatever you could ever imagine with your PC. Basically it is freedom vs Mac approved software. I chose freedom.
The problem with Macs is that they aren't the superior product. They ONLY exist because some genius in their engineering department came up with a very good touch sensitive button, then another genius said heck why don't we made an MP3 player stick this touch sensitive button on it, but make it a wheel, so they can wheel through their entire playlists quickly, and make it speed sensitive so the faster their finger moves incrementally faster the user goes through the files.
If it hadn't been for that Mac would be out of business today. They used that, then said doubled down on the bet that most people aren't smart enough to use a PC and made a dummy proof computer. Dummy proof in the sense that only they control the software that will work on their computers. So if you don't know what you are doing then you can't really
[hr]
it up. Then used the entrance to "hip" crowd and their iPod, to market dressed up computers, "sexxy computers" cool desktops that the computer is behind the screen, weird shaped computers, then marketed the crap out of it. Now you aren't cool to if you use a PC you are only cool if you use a Mac. The simple fact is people don't buy macs for functionality. They buy Macs to look good at starbucks while sipping their double raw sugar, non-fat soy latte.
And that is something I hold in complete contempt.
Their genius is not in the area of computers, but the area of marketing, and product differentiation. They took a product that was inferior, used the argument that "we don't get viruses" (because you were so inconsequential that no one bothered to write anything). Stuck more ram in it. Made it flash and whistle louder, then sold it for 3 times the cost of a comparable PC. And people bought it.
silverdak
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2910389
Price
I was going to say Price... a $2k price tag rules it out for most people.... but its not a tech. reason like something with the hardware or software or OS like I think he wanted to know...
why would a company spend $2K on a new MAC when they could spend $500 and get the same thing that will do the job? they wouldnt... if MAC prices went down like 60% MAC would rule the market hands down.
http:///forum/post/2910389
Price
I was going to say Price... a $2k price tag rules it out for most people.... but its not a tech. reason like something with the hardware or software or OS like I think he wanted to know...
why would a company spend $2K on a new MAC when they could spend $500 and get the same thing that will do the job? they wouldnt... if MAC prices went down like 60% MAC would rule the market hands down.
shogun323
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2910389
Price, and the iCult following are my serious concerns.
They've addressed some of the compatibility issues. I don't like the layout of their OS. I HATE the way you browse files.
You are really going to hate windows 7 as they have adopted even more of MAC's layout and file structure.
But above all and the problem with macs is they license programming of software. Basically they say what you can do with your computer. With a PC, anybody, can write software for a PC. So you can do whatever you could ever imagine with your PC. Basically it is freedom vs Mac approved software. I chose freedom.
Not sure where you got this from. OS comes bundles with Xcode, a suite of developing tools that support multiple programming platforms. It is also the developement platform for the iPhone.
The problem with Macs is that they aren't the superior product. They ONLY exist because some genius in their engineering department came up with a very good touch sensitive button, then another genius said heck why don't we made an MP3 player stick this touch sensitive button on it, but make it a wheel, so they can wheel through their entire playlists quickly, and make it speed sensitive so the faster their finger moves incrementally faster the user goes through the files.
If it hadn't been for that Mac would be out of business today. They used that, then said doubled down on the bet that most people aren't smart enough to use a PC and made a dummy proof computer. Dummy proof in the sense that only they control the software that will work on their computers. So if you don't know what you are doing then you can't really
[hr]
it up. Then used the entrance to "hip" crowd and their iPod, to market dressed up computers, "sexxy computers" cool desktops that the computer is behind the screen, weird shaped computers, then marketed the crap out of it. Now you aren't cool to if you use a PC you are only cool if you use a Mac. The simple fact is people don't buy macs for functionality. They buy Macs to look good at starbucks while sipping their double raw sugar, non-fat soy latte.
And that is something I hold in complete contempt.
Their genius is not in the area of computers, but the area of marketing, and product differentiation. They took a product that was inferior, used the argument that "we don't get viruses" (because you were so inconsequential that no one bothered to write anything). Stuck more ram in it. Made it flash and whistle louder, then sold it for 3 times the cost of a comparable PC. And people bought it.
So your problem is their successful marketing strategy over the years? I can agree with you that I hate the Mac Culture that is synonmous with their product much like I hate the culture that of Starbucks coffee. In our marketing department we use whatever angle brings in the business.
I certainly attribute Apple's rise from the Ashes to the iPod. It's innovative. As is the iPhone and Apple TV, and the time capsule. I love having a differential backup everytime I log into my network.
One area I agree with you is price. Although my last business class laptop cost $1800 and my Macbook was $1400, I agree they are priced to high. But I don't see that changing since they are selling like hotcakes.
shogun323
Active Member
Originally Posted by SilverDak
http:///forum/post/2910397
but its not a tech. reason like something with the hardware or software or OS like I think he wanted to know...
Thank you. And yes that is what I was looking for.
why would a company spend $2K on a new MAC when they could spend $500 and get the same thing that will do the job? they wouldnt... if MAC prices went down like 60% MAC would rule the market hands down.
Except in niche markets, I dont think Apple could ever tap into the business market. Microsoft dominates in the enterpise and SMB market and they do it well.
I do agree that their pricepoint is a big deterent in the home user market.
http:///forum/post/2910397
but its not a tech. reason like something with the hardware or software or OS like I think he wanted to know...
Thank you. And yes that is what I was looking for.
why would a company spend $2K on a new MAC when they could spend $500 and get the same thing that will do the job? they wouldnt... if MAC prices went down like 60% MAC would rule the market hands down.
Except in niche markets, I dont think Apple could ever tap into the business market. Microsoft dominates in the enterpise and SMB market and they do it well.
I do agree that their pricepoint is a big deterent in the home user market.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by shogun323
http:///forum/post/2910551
Thank you. And yes that is what I was looking for.
Except in niche markets, I dont think Apple could ever tap into the business market. Microsoft dominates in the enterpise and SMB market and they do it well.
I do agree that their pricepoint is a big deterent in the home user market.
Ever priced a "mighty mouse?" or a mac keyboard?
Look, my wife has a mac, and that is the main computer at my house, so I use one every day.
I hate when information is twisted, and someone is trying to sell me a load of hogwash.
And if you go down the list of why macs are better. It is really untrue,
- not as suseptable to viruses. (becaue no one bothers messing with the little guy)
- More stable - if you their OS un an underpowered system (which is imo what most people are doing with their windows vista system) you have the same problems. Try running CS2 on 512 Mbs of ram, their system will crash 3 or 4 times a day.
- It is better for graphic functions - Not because of their product, but because they better taylored the computer with the OS.
you can go down the list, and it is like listening to a politician quoting statistics during a debate. This happened, it was good, I did it.
http:///forum/post/2910551
Thank you. And yes that is what I was looking for.
Except in niche markets, I dont think Apple could ever tap into the business market. Microsoft dominates in the enterpise and SMB market and they do it well.
I do agree that their pricepoint is a big deterent in the home user market.
Ever priced a "mighty mouse?" or a mac keyboard?
Look, my wife has a mac, and that is the main computer at my house, so I use one every day.
I hate when information is twisted, and someone is trying to sell me a load of hogwash.
And if you go down the list of why macs are better. It is really untrue,
- not as suseptable to viruses. (becaue no one bothers messing with the little guy)
- More stable - if you their OS un an underpowered system (which is imo what most people are doing with their windows vista system) you have the same problems. Try running CS2 on 512 Mbs of ram, their system will crash 3 or 4 times a day.
- It is better for graphic functions - Not because of their product, but because they better taylored the computer with the OS.
you can go down the list, and it is like listening to a politician quoting statistics during a debate. This happened, it was good, I did it.
shogun323
Active Member
Like I mentioned, I agree with you on pricepoint.
I also hate the virus argument. Why would a virus writer target a small percentage of the market share?
The stability issue is a moot point as well. Both are stable OS's.
My beef with Vista is it's resource utilization. On my XP workstation at the office I am currently using 550megs of physical memory. Booting to the desktop on Vista, it would require close to double. That's my only complaint.
My point is that Apple does make a great product. It has it's strengths and weaknesses just like everything.
It seems your issue solely resides in the pricing and Culture they appeal to. I agree they arent' superior, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!!!
I also hate the virus argument. Why would a virus writer target a small percentage of the market share?
The stability issue is a moot point as well. Both are stable OS's.
My beef with Vista is it's resource utilization. On my XP workstation at the office I am currently using 550megs of physical memory. Booting to the desktop on Vista, it would require close to double. That's my only complaint.
My point is that Apple does make a great product. It has it's strengths and weaknesses just like everything.
It seems your issue solely resides in the pricing and Culture they appeal to. I agree they arent' superior, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!!!
natclanwy
Active Member
I am a die hard PC user, but Microsoft has always trailed Apple with their operating system and tried to mimic it. Every time apple came out with new feature you would see the same feature or something similar added to the next version of windows. Apple can tout its reliabilty because they control all of the hardware compents and a good portion of the software used on their computers. It's much easier to right a reliable software and driver package when you only have to support a handful of different devices vs a PC that has hundreds of different suppliers and manufacturers.
As far as viruses anyones claim that mac doesn't have issues with viruses is blowing smoke they just don't have the market share that a pc has. I think Mac has 13.8% of the market which leaves pc's with about 83%. Now apply those numbers to the aprx number of computer in the U.S. ~200,000,000
27,600,000 Macs
166,000,000 PC's
Now lets say someone writes a virus that effects 10% of the computers now you have:
16,600,000 infected PC's or
2,760,000 infected Macs
Then we will say 20% of those people take the time to put post their complaint publicly.
3,320,000 complaining PC users
552,000 complaining Mac users
Who do you think is going to get the attention, not to mention Mac has only had 13.8% share of the market for a less than two years before that it was closer to 5%. Also if you are trying to make a statement are you going to send it to 2,760,000 users or are you going to send it to 16,600,000 users? Or turn that on the latest popular viruses that are being used to generate cash do you want to to try your luck with 2.76 million people or 16.6 million?
Mac will have just as many issues with viruses when it achieves a similar market share as the PC, and at its current rate it will get there. Steve Jobs is a genius when it comes to marketing Apples products have always been ingenius and catchy and now that they have stepped up there marketing campagn and the success of the Ipod and Iphone they are building up an amazing head of steam. Maybe they will have a little better success rate but they have had Microsofts experience to build off of they will be heading into the future knowing the lengths people will go to to exploit holes in an operating system.
A purpose built PC will perform just as well as any Mac out there, but there are so many PC builders that just throw parts in a box and add an OS and just as many people that are too niave to know any different and never take the time to research before they buy.
Sorry for hitting on the same points as others above I started writing this a couple hours ago and got sidetracked.
As far as Vista using more resources than XP, Microsoft wasn't secritive about that in fact they had several camaigns going stating that and warning people.
As far as viruses anyones claim that mac doesn't have issues with viruses is blowing smoke they just don't have the market share that a pc has. I think Mac has 13.8% of the market which leaves pc's with about 83%. Now apply those numbers to the aprx number of computer in the U.S. ~200,000,000
27,600,000 Macs
166,000,000 PC's
Now lets say someone writes a virus that effects 10% of the computers now you have:
16,600,000 infected PC's or
2,760,000 infected Macs
Then we will say 20% of those people take the time to put post their complaint publicly.
3,320,000 complaining PC users
552,000 complaining Mac users
Who do you think is going to get the attention, not to mention Mac has only had 13.8% share of the market for a less than two years before that it was closer to 5%. Also if you are trying to make a statement are you going to send it to 2,760,000 users or are you going to send it to 16,600,000 users? Or turn that on the latest popular viruses that are being used to generate cash do you want to to try your luck with 2.76 million people or 16.6 million?
Mac will have just as many issues with viruses when it achieves a similar market share as the PC, and at its current rate it will get there. Steve Jobs is a genius when it comes to marketing Apples products have always been ingenius and catchy and now that they have stepped up there marketing campagn and the success of the Ipod and Iphone they are building up an amazing head of steam. Maybe they will have a little better success rate but they have had Microsofts experience to build off of they will be heading into the future knowing the lengths people will go to to exploit holes in an operating system.
A purpose built PC will perform just as well as any Mac out there, but there are so many PC builders that just throw parts in a box and add an OS and just as many people that are too niave to know any different and never take the time to research before they buy.
Sorry for hitting on the same points as others above I started writing this a couple hours ago and got sidetracked.
As far as Vista using more resources than XP, Microsoft wasn't secritive about that in fact they had several camaigns going stating that and warning people.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by shogun323
http:///forum/post/2910630
It seems your issue solely resides in the pricing and Culture they appeal to. I agree they arent' superior, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!!!
The baby is thrown out with the bathwater, because of the "software quality controls they employ" Which means only big brother (apple) can approve what goes on your apple.
http:///forum/post/2910630
It seems your issue solely resides in the pricing and Culture they appeal to. I agree they arent' superior, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water!!!!
The baby is thrown out with the bathwater, because of the "software quality controls they employ" Which means only big brother (apple) can approve what goes on your apple.
stdreb27
Active Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2910632
A purpose built PC will perform just as well as any Mac out there, but there are so many PC builders that just throw parts in a box and add an OS and just as many people that are too niave to know any different and never take the time to research before they buy.
One of my key points! Most points used in promoting a Mac is based out of ignorance and laziness. And I HATE IGNORANT LAZY PEOPLE! Hence my strong opposition for them.
http:///forum/post/2910632
A purpose built PC will perform just as well as any Mac out there, but there are so many PC builders that just throw parts in a box and add an OS and just as many people that are too niave to know any different and never take the time to research before they buy.
One of my key points! Most points used in promoting a Mac is based out of ignorance and laziness. And I HATE IGNORANT LAZY PEOPLE! Hence my strong opposition for them.
shogun323
Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2910634
Which means only big brother (apple) can approve what goes on your apple.
This is flat out wrong. As I previously stated, "Not sure where you got this from. OS comes bundles with Xcode, a suite of developing tools that support multiple programming platforms. It is also the developement platform for the iPhone."
http:///forum/post/2910634
Which means only big brother (apple) can approve what goes on your apple.
This is flat out wrong. As I previously stated, "Not sure where you got this from. OS comes bundles with Xcode, a suite of developing tools that support multiple programming platforms. It is also the developement platform for the iPhone."
shogun323
Active Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2910632
A purpose built PC will perform just as well as any Mac out there, but there are so many PC builders that just throw parts in a box and add an OS and just as many people that are too niave to know any different and never take the time to research before they buy.
This is true and will always be an issue.
http:///forum/post/2910632
A purpose built PC will perform just as well as any Mac out there, but there are so many PC builders that just throw parts in a box and add an OS and just as many people that are too niave to know any different and never take the time to research before they buy.
This is true and will always be an issue.
natclanwy
Active Member
I have built several PC's running Vista, I researched all of the requirements Microsoft listed for running the different versions of Vista and I evaluated each customers needs and built each computer accordingly. Every one of my customers is extremely happy with their computers and Vista and when other people use their computers that have used vista before they can't believe it is the same operating system that their $300 Walmart PC is running or even their $1100 Dell.
I really believe between the under built PCs running Vista and Apple's very successful marketing campaign is the sole reason Vista has gotten a bad rap and Microsoft is having a difficult time competing on the marketing side even with their Microsoft Mohave project ads.
I really believe between the under built PCs running Vista and Apple's very successful marketing campaign is the sole reason Vista has gotten a bad rap and Microsoft is having a difficult time competing on the marketing side even with their Microsoft Mohave project ads.
shogun323
Active Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2910692
I have built several PC's running Vista, I researched all of the requirements Microsoft listed for running the different versions of Vista and I evaluated each customers needs and built each computer accordingly. Every one of my customers is extremely happy with their computers and Vista and when other people use their computers that have used vista before they can't believe it is the same operating system that their $300 Walmart PC is running or even their $1100 Dell.
I really believe between the under built PCs running Vista and Apple's very successful marketing campaign is the sole reason Vista has gotten a bad rap and Microsoft is having a difficult time competing on the marketing side even with their Microsoft Mohave project ads.
It is evident that you take pride in your work and are good at what you do. It unfortunate that most end users go out and buy from the corporate giants for whatever is the cheapest and buy a product loaded with tons of crapware.
I believe alot of the bad buzz on Vista generated from the tech world.
The software was put out ahead of the hardware industry. I stated that when it came out. Vista was released I believe in Jan 07. Dual core Procs werent even released until June 07. I think that MS put the cart in front of the horse and they have been dealing with the reprocussions since.
http:///forum/post/2910692
I have built several PC's running Vista, I researched all of the requirements Microsoft listed for running the different versions of Vista and I evaluated each customers needs and built each computer accordingly. Every one of my customers is extremely happy with their computers and Vista and when other people use their computers that have used vista before they can't believe it is the same operating system that their $300 Walmart PC is running or even their $1100 Dell.
I really believe between the under built PCs running Vista and Apple's very successful marketing campaign is the sole reason Vista has gotten a bad rap and Microsoft is having a difficult time competing on the marketing side even with their Microsoft Mohave project ads.
It is evident that you take pride in your work and are good at what you do. It unfortunate that most end users go out and buy from the corporate giants for whatever is the cheapest and buy a product loaded with tons of crapware.
I believe alot of the bad buzz on Vista generated from the tech world.
The software was put out ahead of the hardware industry. I stated that when it came out. Vista was released I believe in Jan 07. Dual core Procs werent even released until June 07. I think that MS put the cart in front of the horse and they have been dealing with the reprocussions since.
natclanwy
Active Member
Dual core processors were released a year before Vista was released. Microsoft laid all of the groundwork before they released Vista, even I as a part time system builder I had the info before Vista was released and bought hardware accordingly. It was the hardware and software manufacturers that were slow to get with the update most did not have working drivers or updates for their hardware and software that were compatible with vista even though they had been given a year to develop patches and new drivers. The only issues I had were the first few systems I built lacked working drivers for Vista even though the hardware manufacturers said they were Vista compatible. The hardware was compatible but the drivers weren't some of them didn't have updated drivers until July of '07. I had one customer that wanted a video tuner in his computer that could not use the card until the driver was released in July luckily he was sympathetic with me and understood that there was nothing I could do and the box even had logos on it touting its vista compatibility.
If you look at current systems from many major system builders they are still shipping computers that aren't Vista ready and shipping them with Vista installed and the technology has been available for 3 years.
If you look at current systems from many major system builders they are still shipping computers that aren't Vista ready and shipping them with Vista installed and the technology has been available for 3 years.
shogun323
Active Member
Originally Posted by natclanwy
http:///forum/post/2911042
Dual core processors were released a year before Vista was released.
I stand corrected. It was the Allendale 64 bit that was release June 07.
Vista certainly has been shipped on inadequate hardware.
http:///forum/post/2911042
Dual core processors were released a year before Vista was released.
I stand corrected. It was the Allendale 64 bit that was release June 07.
Vista certainly has been shipped on inadequate hardware.