Oxygen level meter?

[sueandherzoo]

Originally Posted by big
http:///forum/post/2825119
One is being sure that the temperature matches to less than a degree difference what is in the tank. Second I do one last check of the salinity........Again I am looking for a near perfect match.............. Any maybe last but maybe the most important. Regardless of the method you use to remove water from the tank. When adding the new water I do it gradually.........Slowly poured in from a small container, like a gallon pitcher. Not just dumped in out of the five gallon bucket like some folks do. Give the tank time to adjust to the water addition.
I know these simple things may sound a bit too simplistic.Good Luck and I hope this issue works it self out soon....... Being new to all of this is sometimes overwhelming..........
Thanks for the reminder to not take things for granted and to closely adhere to the little things that could make a big difference. In this particluar case, I'm sure it wasn't any of those issues, though. I'm very Obsessive-Compulsive (and sometimes downright anal!) about details and perfection so the water was always matched very well.
And too much time on my hands???

Between working over 40 hours a week, doing dog rescue, caring for my own critters, and caring for an aging parent, "time" is not in any type of surplus. Lucky for me I have learned to get by on very little sleep.
Sue

 

[big]

Originally Posted by SpiderWoman
http:///forum/post/2825229
Also the pH should match...
I'm just saying that focusing too much on something that is so unlikely the culprit is waste of your time. I probably would have that much time in my hands.
Yea I was going to say to check it too. PH would be an outside chance too........ But from my times of screwing it up with Kalk over the years I felt it was a small chance of being a PH issue.... There have been a time or two that I had bumped my intire system by several tenths in just an hour or so...........

Yet I saw no ill effects in my system.......... Even if PC water was way off in it's PH the change in the tank should have been less than a few tenths of a point shift........... This one I learned the hard way with a powered kalk spill into my sump........ The PH change was not a killer at least from my trial and error mistake method experience........

 

[sueandherzoo]

Keep in mind that the fish I lost all died within 3-5 days of putting them in this "killer" tank. Most of the time there was no water change involved that could have harmed them. Once they were already showing signs of distress I would do a water change in an attempt to save them and that is maybe where the parameters could have been slightly different but it's not what caused them to be ill in the first place.... it may have just stressed them over the edge.
Sue

 

[big]

This may bring up a missed issue or point on my part........
The fish lost where they all within a few days of introduction to the tank??
Another one of those little thing we learn fairly early along...... I still remember asking about the introduction of fish and corals when I was starting saltwater........ I think it was "Acrylic" who said only one or two fish at a time into the tank....... but no more than 20 corals introduced at a time.......... Basically Corals can take it but the fish should be the most 2 at a time..... then a week or so latter more if wanted.....
Was a large group of fishes introduced at the same time or within a few days??
Ohhhhhhh BTW. the "I'm very Obsessive-Compulsive (and sometimes downright anal!) thing is a requirment to do good in this obsession, you are on the right track!! Join the crowd!!

 

[sueandherzoo]

Originally Posted by big
http:///forum/post/2825888
This may bring up a missed issue or point on my part........
The fish lost where they all within a few days of introduction to the tank??
Another one of those little thing we learn fairly early along...... I still remember asking about the introduction of fish and corals when I was starting saltwater........ I think it was "Acrylic" who said only one or two fish at a time into the tank....... but no more than 20 corals introduced at a time.......... Basically Corals can take it but the fish should be the most 2 at a time..... then a week or so latter more if wanted.....
Was a large group of fishes introduced at the same time or within a few days??
Ohhhhhhh BTW. the "I'm very Obsessive-Compulsive (and sometimes downright anal!) thing is a requirment to do good in this obsession, you are on the right track!! Join the crowd!!

(sigh) I WISH I had introduced too many fish at once - then the mystery would be solved. It was quite the opposite, though. I bought a false perc as my first fish. One week later I added a tiny scooter blenny. They both died 3 days later. (the clown was the longest survivor of all my attempts).
I waited a week, made sure the water was perfect, and bought a small short nose puffer. He was dead in 4 days. I waited another week, got a tiger pistol shrimp and paired yellow watchman (tiny one). The watchman was dead in 3 days, the shrimp is still alive to this day. Another week went by, I bought another small yellow watchman (hoping he'd keep my pistol shrimp company) and they found each other and bonded, and the watchman died in 4 days.
Snails are still fine. Tiger pistol shrimp is fine. Feather duster is fine.
Oh, and I'm glad to hear that my OCD is FINALLY going to come in handy for something. Most of my life it's been a real problem!
Sue

 

[ilovemytank]

I Think OCD can be good in several ways. Maybe I missed it but what all did you test to make sure your parameters are OK ? As lond as you have surface aggitation your oxygen should be fine. Do you have a skimmer ? If so there is no way oxygen was your problem. You said your clown made it three days, If so and you had put in stagnent water that lost its oxygen in the tank then before the three days it took for the clown to "suffucate", a skimmer and surface aggitation woulg have re-oxygenated the water. Could it have been your ammonia levels ? Not that I want to start your OCD pointed in a new direction but its time to redirect it. Maybe I missed it but do you have any fish in there now ? Whats all of your parameters ?

 

[big]

It does look like you are trying hard and do care a lot too!

I do not know which straw to grasp for at this point.............
FYI>One thing I saw would be the Scooter...... Their diet is manly very small critters that live in the substrate and on the live rock (pods and the such) They do not have a very good survival rate in any newly established tanks. They starve to death after a while....... It take close to a year and a large amount of live rock to support their diet..... They have very small mouths and need specialized food sources that will only show up in a well done mature system............. It is a shame that a shop owner wouldl sell one to someone with a newer system..........
While we are on this sore subject of non responsible, or not knowing squat LFS people........ I had one other thought. Did all you fish come from the same source???........... There are some good folks in the LF shop business, but there are many more that have no business in that line of work.
I have seen shops that have SG levels as low as 2.00 and worse. tanks we run are far higher in salt levels........ The reverse may be true in other shops ........ The shop I deal with has chronically low SG in their tanks. It has been a long time since I bought a new fish but when doing so, be sure to Acclimate properly and if needed to do a very gradual acclimation if the source water is out of whack in it's Salinity........This is one thing that will do in a fish several days after introduction ... the rapid SG adjustment.......... Refer to the flash acclimation in the left column.......... OK my thoughts and my typing finger is worn out...... Good Luck!........ Warren

 

[ilovemytank]

+ 1 about the LFS.

 

[sueandherzoo]

Originally Posted by Ilovemytank
http:///forum/post/2826150
As lond as you have surface aggitation your oxygen should be fine. Maybe I missed it but do you have any fish in there now ? Whats all of your parameters ?
Thanks guys, for allowing me to think out loud and think this through. I will never know conclusively why five fish had to die but in the process of trying to figure it out I am learning a lot. I guess all is not lost if I (and maybe others) can learn from this.
This "Killer" tank is a 12 gallon Eclipse "plug and play" unit. No, there is no skimmer on it, I didn't even know what a skimmer was when I set up the "learning tank". Regarding surface agitation, that's still a possible factor in this equation because no, there really is NOT much surface agitation with the Eclipse 12. The water that flows out of the filtration system does so very gently and does not do much agitating at all, and unfortunately there is no adjustment to tweak the angle the water returns to the tank. I was actually leaving the tank water level intentionally low so that there would be at least a tiny bit of splashing to break the surface tension. Since then I have purchased a powerhead and have it pointed at the surface.
The testing I did consistently (twice a day, thanks to OCD) was ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PH, alkalinity, and SG. Ammonia was always at zero,nitrite was always between the two lowest colors on the test kit, and nitrate was usually at around 20. As of yesterday the ammonia and nitrite was a zero and nitrate was at 5.
I do appreciate you trying to steer my focus in another direction .... perhaps I am dwelling on oxygen too much. I guess I WANT that to be the problem so that I can fix it and move on.
Originally Posted by big
http:///forum/post/2826205
I do not know which straw to grasp for at this point....
FYI>One thing I saw would be the Scooter....It is a shame that a shop owner wouldl sell one to someone with a newer system.
While we are on this sore subject of non responsible, or not knowing squat LFS people.... I had one other thought. Did all you fish come from the same source? It has been a long time since I bought a new fish but when doing so, be sure to Acclimate properly and if needed to do a very gradual acclimation if the source water is out of whack in it's Salinity........This is one thing that will do in a fish several days after introduction ... the rapid SG adjustment.......... Refer to the flash acclimation in the left column.......... OK my thoughts and my typing finger is worn out...... Good Luck!........ Warren
Yes, Warren, I care MUCH too much about ALL living, non-human creatures and it can sometimes be a problem but I find it's more of an asset than a flaw, MOST of the time.
Good call - I have been "grasping at straws" and when the 12 gallon was my only tank it was all-consuming. Now that I have 3 other tanks running I'm able to step back and see the bigger picture a little better. Even though I was frustrated by the killer tank I sure as heck didn't let it stop me from starting others!)
Regarding the scooter blenny, I hate that he may have starved to death and yes, that one I 100% blame on the LFS. I specifically ASKED before buying him what his feeding and dietary habits were and was told he was eating flakes and pellets. And I believed it.

When I started this hobby I made a point of checking out all the LFS's within a 45 minute drive and I purchased the 5 various fish from three different stores..... I can't blame it on one source. Luckily the one that is closest to me has come to realize that I'm serious about this hobby and now seem to be very good about giving me honest and informed answers, rather than the "sell the newbie all you can" attitude I sensed when I first started.
I've never tested the LFS water that the new fish come in - I really SHOULD start doing that. But I do religiously drip acclimate new fish using the steps outlined on the left, and I, of course, obsess to make sure the drops are dripping in at the perfect rate.... approximately 8 drops per second.
Right now in the 12 gallon I have the tiger pistol shrimp and a small yellow watchman goby. I moved the goby from the QT tank into the "killer" tank on Monday night...... as of last night he looked fine but that was only 24 hours. If he STILL looks fine (or is even alive!) by this weekend, then perhaps the problem has disappeared. I filled the tank with "agitated" saltwater and have a powerhead running 24/7. Other than that I've done nothing differently, except of course more time has gone by. Perhaps it will be as simple as that.... the tank is now another month older than when I started adding fish.
It doesn't matter -- success or failure, I'm totally addicted.

Sue