Parasites on my clown?

[lopeyc]

My favorite fish in my tank is my maroon clown. Velvety, lovely, loves his anemone.
After lunch today I looked at him. Looks like he's been in a bar fight: scratched, fins shredded, unidentified crap on his body (like somebody had been dusting when he went by) and, worst of all, several splinter-like things sticking out of his face!
This is a year old tank. My stats at the moment that I've just tested are pH: 8.0, no ammonia. I'll do some more tests after I post.
Here's what the "splinters" look like:

 

[michaeltx]

several splinter-like things sticking out of his face!
might have tried eating a bristle worm and got a raw deal and while trying to get them out scratched up his face.
thats about the only thing I can think of that would fir that description.
Mike

 

[jarvis]

Splinters? Do they look like shards of fiberglass around the mouth area? If so the same thing happened to my maroon clown. The only thing I could link it to is that he got into something. He might have tried to eat a brissle worm was brought up. I am not to familar with the taxadermy of a blastomusa merleti or if it would have the ability to shoot out spines as a defense (lets say if some food was on it and the clownfish went and dove in), but I recalled when I retracted it once that I got a bad rash on the back of my hand. The Spines did fall out on there own after a day or so of seeing my clown act like a dog if you gave it peanutbutter. He was stressed out a little bit from the incident. I would be worried about the spots on his body. Could it be ick?

 

[lopeyc]

there is a large bristleworm in my tank that cruises right through his anemone sometimes -- maybe he was trying to defend it.
that actually might be the best case scenario, as I am worried they are some kind of parasite.
He is trying to get the things of his face, which is painful to watch as they're not coming out.
would the bristleworm have damaged his tail and fins, though?
thanks for your help.
I don't think its ich -- they're not really spots, more like he swam through a dirty co

eb and some of it stayed on.
here's a pic of his back, not that it shows much:

 

[lopeyc]

Originally posted by jarvis
I am not to familar with the taxadermy of a blastomusa merleti or if it would have the ability to shoot out spines as a defense (lets say if some food was on it and the clownfish went and dove in), but I recalled when I retracted it once that I got a bad rash on the back of my hand.
I'm sorry, are you saying you see one of those in the picture? I must admit, I don't know the names of the corals in my tank...

 

[jlem]

What is your livestock count now in your tank? You should be at about the right level pretty soon right. Is this the 37 gallon tank that somebody else had for a year with 9 or so fish and that you recently took over

 

[lopeyc]

yes, 37g plus 10 in the sump.
he had 12 fish, i have nine.
are you saying this is from overcrowding?

 

[michaeltx]

the tore parts might be. fish can tell when another is in distress for whatever reason and if crowded can start picking on the one in distress. so that might be where that part is coming from.
I must have missed something alongthe way about the tank (not surprised to many threads so liitle time) what fish do you have in there 9 fish in a 37 depending on their sizes is an extreme stocking scale. 12 is just out right gross neglegence but thats something else.
Mike

 

[jlem]

Originally posted by lopeyc
yes, 37g plus 10 in the sump.
he had 12 fish, i have nine.
are you saying this is from overcrowding?

Yes, I am sure that the multitudes of problems that you are having and that you will continue to have until you listen to what person after person in thread after thread have been telling you are due to overcrowding. Please listen to what people are telling you and lighten up your bio load. The tank was setup for a year in another persons care that was some expert. He was obviously not the most caring expert but non the less he had more experience than you. So why have'nt you lightened up your bioload after everyone at this sight has said to.
I am starting to think you are a troll and like getting people riled up for your enjoyment.

 

[lopeyc]

you're kidding right? This is an elaborate hoax? The pictures? Everything?
You know, what -- get the hell off my back. This day is not going very well. Go spit your bile somewhere else, jlem.
I got a lot of advice on this board, not all of it agreeing. Several people said if everything was in balance, I should not remove fish.
I've had exactly two problems since I got the tank, and both have happened in the last 24 hours: A starfish that I stupidly introduced was killed and now this episode with the maroon.
Maybe you're right and I should remove fish. However, jlem, I don't find you either convincing or civil.

 

[lopeyc]

Originally posted by MichaelTX
the tore parts might be. fish can tell when another is in distress for whatever reason and if crowded can start picking on the one in distress. so that might be where that part is coming from.
I must have missed something alongthe way about the tank (not surprised to many threads so liitle time) what fish do you have in there 9 fish in a 37 depending on their sizes is an extreme stocking scale. 12 is just out right gross neglegence but thats something else.
Mike
-- i watch the tank a lot and have seen nobody picking on this guy, although obviously it could have happened when I wasn't watching.
-- there are 8 fish in the tank besides the maroon clown: flame angel, yellow tang, bi-color blennie, cotton-tail damsel, clark clown, canary wrasse, yellow-tailed blue damsel, magenta dottyback. The tang and the wrasse are each maybe 3" and the others are all small, between 1" and 2". I've had the tank a month and am planning to set up a second tank ASAP so that I can move the bigger fish out.
I need to figure out what happened to the Maroon Clown before I can blame it on the stocking -- for one thing, I'm pretty sure there are no fish in my tank that can stick what look like acupuncture needles into my fish!!
Thanks Michael for the posts.
For more info on my water spects, etc., look in the disease board where I put a more detailed rundown.

 

[jarvis]

I dont see one in the picture. I was just throwing my ideas out there from when my clown got those spines. I noticed that that my blastumusa was retracted in a certin area and I also was feeding my cyneria that day where food driffted into the other coral. The torn fin is a pretty good indication that someone is harassing him. My guess is the flame angel.

 

[lopeyc]

jarvis: see my last post for list of fish.
One possible suspect: I moved a hard red cneria (again, I don't know the name) on the sandbed under the anemone this morning. To be on the safe side, I've moved him away. I can say this -- when I moved him, he didn't put any splinters into me.
Also, could the injured starfish have stuck these into the clown if the clown tried to bite him?

 

[lopeyc]

my water specs:
ammonia: 0
nitrites: 0
pH: 8.0
KH: between 5 and 5.5
specific gravity: 1.023 (measured with swing arm)
temp: 82
Because the KH was so low and the pH was low, I just added a buffering agent to try and get it back up.

 

[michaeltx]

no on the starfish they dont have any defences like that.
cynari I dont think is a suspect either.
it still goes back to the bristle worms the can punch those spines in when they are threatened and after that whatever got the raw end will be trying anything to get them out. to me thats the only thing so far that I see that it could be. but list what corals you have in the tank and maybe that will bring something up.
I would still look into finding a few fish a home or getting another tank setup. the reason that signs of stress are sometimes not noticeable till its to late. and I dont think you want to loose any because of that.
just because when the fish are healthy and acting normal doent mean when one starts to get stressed out that natural instincs will kick in and the can start going after the injured stredded fish even though normally they dont. so its something to keep an eye on.
I think youve got some good info on some of your threads now if you put into practice your tank will be that much more better. a lot of people me included when we started overstocked did things by the advice of a LFS and were stirred worng. my first tank sounds kinda like yours as far as sticking. one fish died and the ammonia it created and the stress of the overstocking took the rest of the tank out. I had a glass box with a lot of dead fish in it. FWIW so what I say on that is from experience not a repeat of what others have said.
also I would suggest that when someone starts to get out of line in there statements to ignore them. the only thing it does when you respond to it is keep it going. and eventually get the thread locked up from it.

Mike

 

[lopeyc]

here's been my main fear about taking out fish: That it could actually destabilize the pecking order and thus CAUSE violence. If people think that's not a possibility, then I'll stop worrying and move onward.
I'm also unsure who to get rid of. Any thoughts? The least beautiful fish are the hardest to catch...
What I'd like to do is set up something between 75 and 125 that I can move the Tang and some others into, as well as setting up a quarantine tank. However, all that is going to take several months, I suspect, to buy, set up and cycle. (can i jump start cycling a new tank by using starter water from the one I have?)
another problem i have is that i like and trust the guy who sold me the tank, and he gives me different advice than some of you writing today. so I am trying to get educated before I do something rash...

 

[lopeyc]

Say he did have a fight with a bristleworm...
...what should I do? Just sit tight? Try to remove the bristles with tweezers -- jeez, how stressful would that be!

 

[michaeltx]

if its a bristle worm they will go away on there own just have to watch for signs of infection but most fish will recover within a few days or so.
here is your list.
there are 8 fish in the tank besides the maroon clown: flame angel, yellow tang, bi-color blennie, cotton-tail damsel, clark clown, canary wrasse, yellow-tailed blue damsel, magenta dottyback. The tang and the wrasse are each maybe 3" and the others are all small, between 1" and 2". I've had the tank a month and am planning to set up a second tank ASAP so that I can move the bigger fish out.
remeber after you get another tank all setup and going you can always get new fish to go in it.
this is what I would remove if it was my tank.
the tang (because of swimming room and if it takes longer than a few months the tang could start to develope HLLE which is really bad for them and can kill them- the main cause of this in tangs is swimming room.
the wrasse
flame angel- really needs a bigger tank to be happy
and the dottyback for aggression reasons.
that would leave you with the bleeny the 2 damsels and the 2 clowns. after the new tank is up and going you can always get these fish again.
the reason for the difference in opion your loking at the guy that set up the tank a year agoand probably went off the LFS advice. and it has worked for him but in all reality the tank stock is who is suffering. give you an idea to stunt the growth of fish it takes a lot of stress and unnatural methods. my yellow tang that I have is about 7 inches now when I got him about a year ago he was at 2 inches that 5 inches of growth in a year. and the one you have is at 3 inches and supposed have been in the tank for a year. see the difference.
HTH some
Mike

 

[lopeyc]

Those are some of my faves: the wrasse and the tang.
the flame is a bit aggressive, probably the only one in the tank I've seen go after folks -- usually the cotton-tail damsel.
The dottyback is actually the one who I worry about at feeding time because he seems pretty intimidated and only gets the stray pellet that slips by the others. He's real little.
I don't actually know how long the tang has been in there. Will ask.
Criminy.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[jarvis]

You should get a test kit for nitate, and Ca. Your Ph is perfectly acceptable in my eyes. If it were low.......I would never jump the gun and add anything to try to addjust the Ph without looking into the cause first. Also just want to check what kinda Alk test kit are you using? The reason I ask is that there is 2 diffrent measures of Alk (1) meq/l and (2) dKh. There is also a hardness test that is related to Alk. Which I belive that not to many if any people test for. I just seen that you posted KH and wanted to know if we are seeing eye to eye. It seem you have aquired a very nice tank. Can you post a full pic? Anything you need help on with Ids?
I also too suspected my cyneria of these spines due to I was feeding it at the time and my clown is pretty prone to divebombing things when it came to feeding time. I never pinpointed exactly what he got into. I doubt the starfish could have done such a thing. Regardless I wouldnt even worry about the spines he should be fine in a few days.