PDBFP - Pretty Darn Big Fuge Project

[reefpro]

Well I've got the process started and while it's a little overwhelming I'm very excited.
Overview:
I have a 90 gallon (drilled) tank in my office. I want to setup a fuge for it but have realized that there's no way to get a decent setup in the stand. My solution is to run the overflow and return lines through the floor to the basement into a fuge that is approximately 150 gallons. This fuge will also serve as a shallow frag tank if I choose to do so in the future.
The PVC run's will be drop down from the tank through the floor into the joist area of the basement ceiling. The overall drop for this run is about 4 feet. They will follow the joists parallel to the floor for approximately 20 feet and then drop another 6 feet into the fuge.
Now I'm not quite sure what kind of pump I'm going to need to power that return but I'm going to imagine that it's going to need to be more powerful than my Mag 9.5 that I currently use in a wet dry under the tank. I'll have to try to find a way to calculate the head on that long of a run to and get a new pump to accommodate. I think then I'll use the either a Mag 7 or the 9.5 I have to run in the fuge for circulation and/or a skimmer.
I'm figuring 60x40x12(or 16) for the fuge. It will be on a custom table in that room with an RO/DI filter, 2 top off tanks and will be setup to drain into the storm drain system of the house in case of flood.
I'll give it 2 20 AMP isolated circuits with a battery backup system on the pumps and I'll look at putting in a generator in the future.
Risks:
I see the following risks in the project:
[list type=decimal][*]Inability to drive the water back to the tank. Need to do pump research to mitigate.
Can two tanks use the same fuge in a setup like this? I'd like to find some proof of the concept (other than fish stores).
[/list type=decimal]
So...
Why am I making this post? Well there's a lot of people here with more experience than I have and I wanted to see what you thought. Anyone care to share some feedback?

 

[earlybird]

Sounds like a PDBFD to me but I would have added a few more letters. I like your idea and it sounds like you done some thinking behind this. You'll really need a larger pump and I would think that two tanks could share the same fuge if you choose but then you are connecting two tanks and if something goes wrong in one tank it's now in both tanks.

 

[adroitmind]

You can have lots more than two tanks on the same fuge, if it's big enough that is. A friend of mine has 4 tanks in his basement all plumed into one huge sump/fuge network. It's a 260, 36, 180, and 55 all run together.

 

[wattsupdoc]

then you are connecting two tanks and if something goes wrong in one tank it's now in both tanks.
And if your luck is like my luck something will. I was advised against this and chose not to. Man am I glad I listened!

You could actually split it up into 2 fuges if you want and still avoid the cross contamination thing. As long as the water dosent mix.

You need to get as much flow as possible from each DT in order to have an effective refugium. So seperate pumps you'll need anyways. A large enough skimmer to handle both tanks would be needed and may be about the same if not cheaper to have two seperate ones (each big enough to handle it's tank). I dont think you will save very much money if you had one fuge for both tanks or 1 fuge for each tank. You could just put up a divider in the tank, seperate the two and it would be SUPER SWEET!

 

[halcyon_diver]

Now I'm not quite sure what kind of pump I'm going to need to power that return but I'm going to imagine that it's going to need to be more powerful than my Mag 9.5 that I currently use in a wet dry under the tank. I'll have to try to find a way to calculate the head on that long of a run to and get a new pump to accommodate. I think then I'll use the either a Mag 7 or the 9.5 I have to run in the fuge for circulation and/or a skimmer.
Reefpro...at 10 feet your head pressure will be 4.33 psi
at 15 feet it will be 6.49 psi and at 20 feet 8.66 psi...hope this helps

 

[reefpro]

Well I went over to the local hardware store today and picked up some of the misc. items I'll need to get started. I'm looking forward to this project... should keep me busy for a while and my next step is definately to find a pump that can handle the run

 

[reefforbrains]

Little Giant pumps are total workhorses. They are monsters for flow and quiet a mice. Its nothing to have one push 15ft head.

 

[bsmith219]

check out dolphin pumps

 

[doahh]

you should be careful with 30' of PVC because that's a LOT of water... add in the other 30 to get it back to the tank...
This fuge sure better have a lot of wiggle room and it's dedicated drain incase it "Gets Old"

 

[reefpro]

Here's the first progress...

 

[reefpro]

So basically what you see here is two dedicated circuits that will be above the fuge.
The stand I'm going to build will sit right up against that board you see screwed into the wall. The stand will be 54x36x36. This gives the fuge plenty of room to sit on and there will be a second tier below it for the mounting of pumps, the chiller to sit on and all of the other misc. gear that will go with the fuge.
The plugs were mounted about 1 foot higher than the water level would ever be in the fuge to ensure that they did not get splashed. There will be room between the back of the fuge and the wall to ensure that I can put a drip loop in there. I will also be installing a drip tray to catch any stray water that might come off of the drip loops and then funnel that into the main drain for the house.
The setup is dual 20 amp circuits. The left circuit will control the chiller and lighting for the fuge and frag area and the right circuit will control the heater as well as the misc other pumps and gear.
This is all of the progress I've made so far but hopefully I'll get some more time tonight to work on the stand.
*note*
The board on the wall will not be load bearing. There will be plenty of support back there. This is just a brace to attach the stand to in hopes of making it more stable.
Thanks,
Ryan

 

[bigskyreef]

Having experience with ponds, I would say a mid-size submersible pond pump may do the trick for you. Lots of pond pump options out there, some being more efficient than others. Some online searching should lead you to some of the big pond companies, (nursery pro, little giant, for example) and you should be able to see what kind of gallons over vertical distance you can get out of their pumps (and hopefully some efficiency info). I say submersible, because they are quieter running, and IMO less of a pain to get running and keep running (you don't have to prime them). The potential downside is that they will produce some heat, but depending on your basement temp, maybe not a problem. There are probably plenty of non-submersible options out there, too. I see no reason why this can't work for multiple tanks. You could probably pump with the same pump for multiple tanks, and use ball valves to adjust the flow for each. This could be tricky and take some trial and error to get it right. It may be simpler (but more expensive) to have an individual pump for each tank you add into the system. That way, you can get the desired flow rate, and don't have to start with an oversized pump before you actually have another tank you want to add in. Plus if the pump fails (they all do eventually) then only one tank will affected, not all. Also, I would plumb it so the water drops into the tank from above the water level: 1) no pipe for critters to plug 2) no way for a siphon to start emptying your tank into the fuge in a power outage 3) aerates and moves surface water of tank. Just my 2 cents, seems like you have this project well in hand.

 

[reefpro]

Thanks for the great feedback.. I've been doing some research on the little giant pumps and I do like what I've been reading. They really sound like a good quality pump.
Don't know if I will get to do any work today but we shall see!
Ryan