Phoenix Tanks

[poniegirl]

I am so loving the look of this Clean tank (except that I know the ammonia is in there)!!
I gutted the 55 tank Memorial Weekend, Sunday. I mean dumped the sand (8 yrs old) and scrubbed everything within an inch of its life. That means exactly 8 days ago.
The live rock had become infested with aptasia 2 years ago and I removed all of it from this very tank. It has been drying for those two years. The rock has been kept clean and has been recently scoured with clean freshwater. All tools have only been used for saltwater aquarium.
Currently, the ammonia is at a HEAVY 4.0..disgusting
Nitrites are still 0.00
Have not tested further for obvious reasons (0 nitrite)
We have a long way to go.
1) For all questions, please keep in mind that I am not only resurecting an 8 year old tank, I am also curing the rock that was original in the tank 8 years ago. The tank is bare bottom, about 50 or 60 lbs of rock right now.
2) On a new tank set up, I need the schedule for water changes; very basic please.
3) Can I add a peice or two of live rock (new purchase and clean) without killing the live rock or disrupting the current cycle. Or is that impatient?
4) Do I feed the tank?
5) What are the odds of the nasties (aptasia, compliments of a store I will not trust again) coming back?
Thank you for any ideas. I will post some photos on the weekend.
Michele
BTW, I do have a very old clownfish and a pair of pajamas in a 20 gallon waiting for success.

 

[crypt keeper]

how did you get rid of the aiptasia?

 

[poniegirl]

Originally Posted by crypt keeper
http:///forum/post/3054531
how did you get rid of the aiptasia?
I tried several bottles of "Aptasia Control". It was very satisfying to melt the things, but not effective for the population that I had.
The only way I could finally be at peace with was to remove the rock itself. And start from square 1.
Here we are.
Aptasia is a scourge on a tank.
I realize my part in it..a purchase I knew was a mistake.

 

[teresaq]

if your rock is dead and dry for 2 yrs I wouldnt think the aptasia would come back unless you reintroduce.
I would throw a dead shrimp in there and just let it cycle.
Are you adding sand at all???
I would let the shrimp stay a day or two, then test. if you get ammonia around 1.0 then take the shrimp out. keep testing until its zero, add some fish food, and test again in a day or so.
T

 

[poniegirl]

Thank you Teresa. I fed the tank some mysis. Though I kind of had the feeling that the rock might provide some cycle initiative, and with the ammonia level, I believe it.
If memory serves, the ammonia will be converted to nitrite and then to nitrate. When the nitrates are down to 20 or so, then I will want to do a water change??
I can't decide on sand. I realize I should have already, if I plan to add sand. I think the clean up crew will probably be happier with some. Also any bottom dwellers I may want to include...I guess I just decided yes, sand. I was thinking the ease of cleaning with no sub would be nice.

 

[teresaq]

maybe do just a very shallow sand bed and add lots of sand sifting snails.
You wouldnt need more the 30 lbs for a 1 inch sand bed.
T

 

[spanko]

Here is my understanding,
You have once live rock that had an Aiptasia infestation and has been sitting outside of water drying for 2 years.
You say that the rock has been kept clean (?) and was scoured before using it again.
You ahve a tank set up with saltwater at the correct Sg and the two year old clean (?) rock in it.
You have tested for ammonia and have a level of 4.0.
My comments,
I wonder where the ammonia is coming from if the rock was kept clean and scoured before reintroduction. Not important right now but inquiring minds need to know.
Are there any power heads or filters on the tank for circulation?
Is there a heater in the tank set to the correct temperature?
To me if there is circulation in the tank via powerheads and or filtration, and the temperature is being controlled then I would do nothing else but let the tank cycle. No lights to keep any algae at bay. Filter material in the tank is good to remove floating detritus. Blowing the rocks off with a turkey baster once in a while to get the detritus into the water column to remove it via the filter is good. Keeping the filter material clean is good. Running a skimmer if you have one is good.
Other than that nothing but 10-20% water changes per week. At 4.0 ammonia seems to me that the rock was not as clean as you thought it was and that if you do not cycle and clean it when you do start up again you are risking an algae experience you may not like.
On the Aiptasia I don't know for sure but if the rock has been dry for two years it seems to me you will have killed off any chance of them recurring from this batch of rock.

 

[poniegirl]

Thanks Henry. I think you see my scenario pretty clearly.
I guess by "clean rock" I meant "kept protected"..it didn't set outside or anything horrible. I am sure there is plenty of leftover matter from when it was live rock. That is surely what started the cycle so well.
I do have two powerheads running, one stationary and one "sweeper" flowing around the rock. I do also have a heater on it, though I am keeping it cooler at this point; 76ish.
I am running a Prizm skimmer.
No additional filtration.
Please clarify "if you do not cycle and clean it when you do start up again you are risking an algae experience you may not like". Do you mean to clean the rock again after the cycle? I am quite fearful of algae..almost as much as aiptasia.
Happy to hear we think the stuff can't come back from this rock. Aiptasia is just so prolific that it seems almost indestructible. I keep thinking "spores" for some reason; alien invasion..dormant. Unreasonable fear, but it was an awful thing. Absolute ruin of a tank.
I am happy to allow it to cycle at this point.

 

[spanko]

Originally Posted by PonieGirl
http:///forum/post/3054688
.......Please clarify "if you do not cycle and clean it when you do start up again you are risking an algae experience you may not like". Do you mean to clean the rock again after the cycle? ................
No I am talking about filtering the tank with a HOB or something where you can add some filter floss. Then you can continually blow on the rocks with a turkey baster or even a power head held in your hand to get the leftover die off from the rock into the water column and removed by the filter and the skimmer. If this die off is left on the rock it will serve as fuel for future algae to use. You really want to get as much of this out of the tank as you can before putting light to the tank. If you question how much of this there could be take you stationary powerhead in your hand and direct the output to the rocks and move it around on the rocks. I believe you will be amazed at the amount of detritus you will see fly up. All of that gunk is future food for algae, and of course a clean up crew. This of course depends on how much you scoured the rocks before putting them in the tank but I believe you have a considerably amount left that you did not get off.
In effect what you are doing right now is curing your rock. Building up a base of bio filter bacteria and utilizing die off to do that. But IMO when using dead base rock that has been alive before you want it as clean as possible before putting it into service as display rock.

 

[poniegirl]

I believe this is probably some excellent advice, Henry. Since the tank floor is bare, blowing out the rock and vaccuming might be a great idea. More likely numerous times would be in good interest. Perhaps schedule that coinciding with the weekly water change.
Fortunately, I'm too old to be very impatient. If the tank developes issues, it is no loss to me at this point to have to begin again with new rock.
Thank you very much for your input.

 

[spanko]

You are welcome. With a little patience you can do this and not have to start over. I too am old but we are still able to learn new things, this is just something new. Good luck with it.

 

[poniegirl]

Test last night revealed Ammonia @ 4.0 (still) and nitrites @ a good 2.0. I have not tested nitrates yet.
I have dusted the rock twice, so far. Last Tuesday with the 10% water change and last night after testing. I will again before the next water change.
There is a lot of matter coming out of the rock and I really apprecite the excellent advice I received.
I think at that point I will be ready to add my sand, though oddly enough I have still not convinced myself that I want substrate. The tank was a DSB last time and after a few years I did not like it. So SSB or nothing this time around.

 

[poniegirl]

This is 13 days into the cycle. Ammonia is at just less than 2.0 and nitrite is ( !! ) at 5.0 for lack of a higher test result, I think.
My camera is non-com at the moment, though I am documenting with my daughter's camera and will post once I have the cord. (she is 14, it could be some time)
I have not tested nitrate or PH yet. When nitrite reaches a reasonable result I will start testing nitrate. Correct me if I am mistaken..PH should be correct if the tank has balance, IME.
Just completed the second 10% water change and the third rock dusting.
It is very nice not to be in a rush to get the tank stocked. Soon enough.

 

[poniegirl]

Day 15..
Ammonia is at 0; so glad because I just don't care for the warmer colored cards.
Nitrites off the scale as far as I can see.
Nitrate (yet another warm color scheme) is negligible, I would say 10 if I had to.
The plan is to dust the rock once more, then station them where I might be happy with the arrangement. At that point, I think I will add sand.
Has anyone used the packaged "live" sand?
What are some thoughts on adding sand at 3 weeks into the cycle. I assume nitrite will be on the downward with nitrates plenty. Should I just plan on dry sand?
I will go with a less than shallow sand bed.

 

[spanko]

I would go dry sand myself. If you add the bagged live sand, which IMO is highly overrated, you stand a chance of adding unwanted dead materials to your already cycled tank and causing and additionl ammonia spike along with added nutrients that could feed unwanted algae outbreaks. The dry sand will quickly become populated with nitrifying bacteria. The live rock will supply some critters that will move into the sand, pods, worms etc.

 

[poniegirl]

Thanks Henry. I feel better about dry sand myself. I really don't even want enough substrate to show above the tank border.

 

[poniegirl]

Day 21

(beer, not coffee)
Nitrite at about 3.0 and nitrate at 10.0. Progress is as slow as this thread. Sorry to say; but what a wonder it really is.
However the last rock dusting, another 10% water change and the sand is in. 20 lbs of white, sugar-fine sand. It is so pretty and satisfying on that instant gratification level that this "hobby" is so notorious for!
So then Pat finds "the other bucket of rock that was banished due to aiptasia". I found the rock that I bought the xenia on that caused this fiasco.
And that simply means that the 20 gallon will have a purpose once the 55 is inhabitable again.

:laughing

 

[poniegirl]

So day 24..Nitrites at about 2.0 I won't test the nitrates yet because I know I what I will see and it's just a waste of test product. When nitrite is kinder, I'll break out those little bottles again. Still haven't tested PH.
It is about 7 more days to a full month and I have certainly seen faster cycles than this.
I dusted the rock and sand as well this evening. It may very well become part of the weekly cleaning, once things balance.
I wonder if anyone does that as part of the regimen? It makes sense on some level.

 

[spanko]

I blow the rock with a turkey baster each week before water change.

 

[poniegirl]

I am so over the hill..over the hump I mean!!
0 nitrite, about 30 nitrate and PH is at 8.2
Big sigh and water change tomorrow!
Already dreaming. One of the good LFS has a Moorish Idol. I need to research, but what a grand fish.
I have a Tomato Clown and a pair of pajamas so I am just daydreaming...but yea!!!!