phosphate

mary

Member
:confused: Back again to discuss action I have taken because of the very high phosphate problem. Now for 3-4 months I have been using nothing but RO water from my LFS. All added water is RO. Have checked the level of phosphate in my barrel of RO, very little and none since the LFS has put in new filters. However, after a few hours in my tank, the phosphate tests show it is back up to what it has always been . Algea problem has only worsened. Clean every day. Corals all look great, fish are healthy,even have had Clarkii's spawn a mass of eggs, don't even have that many fish in the tank anymore, Have taken out all the very large ones and sold them back to LFS. Can the corals and rock be leaching back into the system? Have had the orange cup sun coral thriving in my tank for about 4 months now. Was told that they can not take high phosphate levels. I would love an educated response. Purchased the sun coral at Saltwater.com and it is gorgeous and building new cups. Has doubled. Didn't know they grow so rapidly. How does it do so well in high phosphate?
 

yosemite sam

Active Member
What test kit are you using? Also, when you say you clean everyday, what do you mean? If you have algea in the tank, then that is phosphate that is in the tank, just locked up in the plants. If you scrub the rocks, but don't take the algae out of the tank, then you just reintroduce the phosphate back into the water, and the cycle repeats. In other words, you may not be adding much new phosphate to the tank, but you still have an amount that is tied up in the algea. So besides limiting the imput, you also need to be taking out the phosphate that is present, with a refugium, phosphate sponge, etc. Do a search and look at a post Steveweast did about 6 months ago. He gives a really good explanation of his thoughts on phosphate.
 

mary

Member
:rolleyes: Thank you ReefNut, Pair of Clarkii, coral colored wrasse{they call it red}, bi-color blenny, four chromis, several turbo snails, one cleaner shrimp, hard and soft corals, one yellow tailed damsel, 5 peppermints, two small conch's, yellow sea cucumber, fairly large, a psychaldelic mandarin, small, around 90, if not more, Lbs of rock. That's it. I feed frozen brine up fresh once a day, very varied diet throughout week. Once a week chopped seadood, fish or shrimp. Frozen foodtwo days a week, for omnivores, flake food in the evening always. Morning and night they get fed, and am cautious as to their finishing, and feed a little at a time. Do feed my red doughnut once weekly, and orange cup sun coral every other day either natural, or aqua cultured phytoplankton with cyclopeze{frozen} and three times a week three capfulls of marinesnow. Have the skimmer off when feeding those particular foods. Have new satellite compacts coming so will find out if ballasts were working to their fullest. They are now over three years old, by the changes in tank if any. Lights were all replaced in June in my canopy, and since then have found out that too much heat accumulated and did have a problem in summer throughout. Had our LFS put in six actinics all 96 watts, two on side mickey moused by LFS personal, at that time, but had the problem before of course. Have a floor fan on in the winter months, with canopy elevated with blocks of wood.New compacts that are arriving have a mix of flourescent and actinics. Can't wait to see the difference., with docking mounts. Less light, 4, 65 watts in each. Ordered two. . Great sale on them. Looked for awhile for sales. Finally!
 

mary

Member
That is the face of insecurity. Not sure if I have an overload but certainly hope not. Am well read on how much to put into a system and as one of those who can be easily enticed by a colorful critter so am concerned that maybe I do. Haven't done that in a long time. But, could be I have too much in my tank? My fish are all hearty fish, purchased for that reason.
 

22caddy

Member
I feed frozen brine up fresh once a day
Just a thought here. I am not sure how much you are putting in, but it contains phosphates as a preservative. Learned that one from Thomas. You are feeding a lot and they may all contain it.
 

mary

Member
Yosemite Sam, Had been introducing a powder Was trying the Aquamarine Phosphate Remover, then became frightened in that I began to wonder what the chemical reaction might be once introcuded into the tank over a period of time. Guess I couldn't get a sufficient answer when emailing the co. although co's are usually very obliging. The sponge meant a new and bigger filter than I have so tried this. Have tried numerous simpler methods like pads in the water flow areas but to no avail. Am not going to stop using RO water however. Just wish I could see a change for all my hard work. My test kits are Nutrafin, Seachem and Quikdip sticks.
 

mary

Member
22Caddy, Hmmmm:eek: It is difficult to feel one is giving proper nutrition a day , if I can't vary the diet as I do. Do you believe once a day feeding and giving one or the other foods each day, would be sufficient? Maybe I would change to fresh fish and shrimp instead of flake and soak that in the vitamins instead of the flake. Then vary with frozen and fresh brine when available will check the feeding methods on a forum, hopefully this one. I worry about the shrimp getting enough food so always put in flake at night. Will check all the products I use and hope there is an ingredient listing on all of them. Any new suggestions, are very welcome. I only know that my neighbor who has a beautiful new 125 gal, with all her old rock and some of mine and new, a lot of her old water but a lot of new RO water, we get from the same LFS, feeds her fish huge amounts, that I cringe, several timea a day, and she hasn't any algea problem. just a little diatom [brown]. on the glass. Before she changed however we both had the problem. How large a filter and what type would you use for the sponge for a ninety gallon. I will tell you I had bought a small filter for the bottom tank, and tried the sponge. No change probably because there was not enough surface area in the filter or enough sponge.
 

barry cuda

Member
If excessive phosphates from commercial food products are a problem, it's easy to replace those with homemade foods made from fresh ingredients. Bob Fenner's book has a recipe that I've been using, pretty much unmodified, since day 1. The omni- and carnivores thrive on it. I don't believe this carries adequate nutrition for herbivores so I supplement with spirulina, but it's a good place to start.
 

reefnut

Active Member
You are correct, a verity is the best way to provide proper nutrition but it looks like you feed more in a week than most of us do in a month... I think at least part of the problem lies somewhere in the feeding so let's break it down...I feed frozen brine up fresh once a day,
Brine is not nutritious. I would cut this completely.
very varied diet throughout week.

That's good!! One item per-day or every other day should be sufficient.
Once a week chopped seadood, fish or shrimp.

Better than most store bought fishfoods.
Frozen food two days a week, for omnivores, flake food in the evening always.

A good omnivore food will be fine for the carnivores to eat and a good carnivore food will be fine for the omnivores to eat. You can feed them separately IF you feed no more food than they can eat... feeding them together wouldn't hurt anything...
Morning and night they get fed, and am cautious as to their finishing, and feed a little at a time.

Again, IF you feed no more food than they can eat this should be fine. I feed lightly once a day... remember, in a healthy system the fish will find some food within the system throughout the day.
Do feed my red doughnut once weekly,

That should be fine...
and orange cup sun coral every other day either natural, or aqua cultured phytoplankton with cyclopeze{frozen}

To keep a health sun coral this needs to be done. Some do feed twice a week but whatever your coral needs. So... how do you feed it?? Are you using something to keep the food local?? If not, that may help. The portion of foods can be greatly decreased but the sun coral gets feed well.
and three times a week three capfulls of marinesnow.

I'm not much of a fan of marinesnow... IMO DTs would be a better choice.
 

mary

Member
When I do feed DT.s right now I am out, and other phyto's, I feed them with a good quality baster, getting right up to the coral. I would love not needing the Marine Snow. Just another thing I thought was very beneficial for everything. However, when I feed the DT's {the live one} or the phytoplantons, doesn't matter what. I notice within an hour a red bloom on everything, and brown.. I measure out what the packaging suggests for my size tank and number of corals. I feed the zoanthids also, and mushrooms. Sounds like I may be putting way too much in my tank. Well, I'll have some disappointed fish. They will adjust but may do a quick but gradual decrease What about the five peppermints? I do bring up glass anemones from the bottom tank and let them eat them, but aside from that if I don't put shrimp pellets in the tank, what will they eat? So I will try feeding once daily. Is it a good idea to soak fresh chopped seafoods in vitamins? Not necessary? I appreciate all your suggestions! :)
 

reefnut

Active Member
what will they eat?
Peps will eat anything left by the fish. They are good scavangers and shouldn't really need target feeding unless you start to feed real lightly...
Is it a good idea to soak fresh chopped seafoods in vitamins?

Opinions very but I think Selcon or Zoecon are good. Once a week or so...
 

mary

Member
Thanks for all the advice. Will make changes and let you know in the near future how the tank is doing. Thanks for your time!
 
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