phosphates

[dzones]

I am in no way picking on anyone. I am just asking questions and expecting answers is all. I have never even had a conversation previous to this with bob.
I just feel that if we are going to be responsible for any life, dog, cat, fish or human, then we are bound to do our best to take care of that life.
I merely asked what he based his answers on and the replies i got did not in any way back up his findings. Just knowing your fish are still alive does not mean they are healthy and comfortable.
we could all survive in mud huts but we have air conditioning and heat to better control our environments to make us more comfortable.
If bob is happy with his tank then great for him. i just do not think it is right to give advice when it is based on guesswork.

 

[aarone]

children children.

 

[reefnut]

I do find it amazing that unless we test for parameters the entire conversation is moot. Regardless what happens in the tank.
What I find amazing is someone can claim to have experience with something and then turn around and say he has no experience and still expects to be taken seriously.

 

[dirtj]

I dont' claim to be an expert at anyhting, but after reading this entire post (b/c of my hair algae problem), i have a thought on the 10% water change statement by beaslbob.
**If tap water has phosphates, and you replace your tank water with tap (as bob says he does) in any amount, 10% or whatever, then wouldn't you just be swapping out water with phosphates in it for different water with phosphates in it?**
Isn't this logical?

 

[doodle1800]

I've been sitting here wondering if I should delete that post...... I guess I lost my cool... haaa.. all in good fun...
anyways... Bob... from now on be a good boy and put IMO after everything.
dzones - didn't mean to go off on everyone like that. Bob has a history of people always seeming to question everything he says (which I guess is ok). They might be right, I don't know. If Bob put after everything that in his expereince he has found this to happen, then maybe people would let up a bit.
I'll shutup now.

 

[reefnut]

This one has nothing to do with "IMO". I know the post you are referring to and when anyone posts false or misleading information and words it as fact I will question them and hopefully others will as well.

 

[doodle1800]

all sources except the food added for the this are relatively constant. As fish bioload increased then more phosphates are added. Therefore, when a tank is first started plant life desirable and undesirable will grow from the constant phosphates being added. Adding desirable plant life to the system will crowd out the undesirable plant life. So adding such things as corraling algae, macros or marine plants like turtle grass will reduce phosphates while controlling the hair algae. Increasing this phosphate load by using tap water instead of ro/di will only result in more of those plants.
ok - who has a problem with this? Bob said this earlier and I'd like everyone's opinion.

 

[reefnut]

ok - who has a problem with this? Bob said this earlier and I'd like everyone's opinion.
I don't have a problem with that... this (in that same post) is where it gets shaky...
a 10% weekly water change will only reduce phosphates 10%. Plant life could consume that much in a matter of hours.
False???? maybe not but as he said And with the way it was worded, the only question is how much plant life would be required. misleading???? I think so.
How much plant life would it tank to reduce phosphates 10% in a matter of hours? More than I have. How do I know? I battled phosphates for weeks trying to get mine down once.

 

[doodle1800]

I think the key here is that Bob uses desireable plant life to consume phosphates and most of us do not have that much desireable plant life in our setups, if any. So we try not to use tap water when topping off or filling.

 

[squidd]

Originally posted by doodle1800
I was curious on how much phosphates were in my tank - a 55 that is 6 weeks old and has some algae, but going away slowly.
So I ordered a test kit and tested it last night and had a zero reading. Not what I expected.
I used a Amer pharm tap water filter to fill my tank, thats why I was sure I had high phosphate levels. So.... what I'm going to do is use the tap water filter again and immediately test the water for phosphates.
I believe this could be expected or at least explained...
I had a similar situation with Silicates causing a constant Diatom bloom in my tank...All other possibilities were systematically removed from the equation...Nitrates,phosphates,lights,sand,new tank syndrome,etc...
When left with the possibility that silicates from my tap water were polluting my tank I purchased the test kit...
My Tap water tested 20ppm expected...my tank tested 0...
The reason being that the silicates were "Locked up" in the Diatom bloom and not free floating in the water column available for testing...*see post"There all gone" fish forum/my name*
Similar to testing low on Nitrates/Phosphates in the middle of an algae bloom...the phosphates are still in the tank...if you don't change water/ harvest-remove algae where would they go?...
They are locked up in the plant matter whether it's "good" macro algae or the "bad" micro algae...Yes Macro algae will remove phosphates/nitrAtes from water column but not the tank unless they themselves are physically removed...If they perish in tank pollutants will be released back into water colum...
It is a better scenario all around to NOT add these elements to the water in the first place then to have to deal with taking them out...
Test your source water to see what your putting in the tank and take steps to reduce the addition of undesirables...
"IMO"

 

[doodle1800]

Thats interesting Squidd, but then how could you ever test for phosphates? Or why would you? Your test would always read zero - if there's an algae bloom going on?

 

[squidd]

Only if they were being added at the same rate they were being consumed at...ie a balanced and consistant bloom...
If you have more phosphates then the algae can consume or more Nitrates then your DSB can convert you will have a reading of the excess in the water colume and a "warning" of problems in your near future, if those levels get too far out of wack/balance.

 

[doodle1800]

So a reading of zero seems a good thing - as long as you don't add to the phosphate levels by adding tap water or excess food, etc... A reading of zero might indicate that eventually the phosphates, if any, are on their way out, being consumed?

 

[squidd]

It's just like the biological cycle... You start with clean water and add a dead shrimp/small fish "A" bio load
Then the ammonia shows up (on test kit) then the bacteria colonize and grow to consume ammonia converting to nitrIte (per kit)
Then different bacteria grow/convert to NitrAte etc...etc...
Till you have balance and 0 readings...Is your water clean??
Then you add another fish...out of balance...now you have readings/warning signs again...
Keep Testing so you know whats going on in your tank...
Or if something changed...

 

[reefnut]

I have a 40g fuge hooked on a 112g capacity (about) tank that is full of macro algae and it still took weeks for me to get my Phosphates undetectable.
According to my Salifert kit .03ppm is good, .1ppm is critical and .25ppm will retard coral growth. That's a pretty small amount before it starts causing problems. Not to mention the potental algae blooms that phosphates can help fuel.

 

[doodle1800]

Sorry for getting on my soapbox yesterday guys. I'm sure Bob can fight his own battles also... (debates - whatever)...