Picasso Trigger and a Lion?

You guys are out for blood! For real, you vampires!

Well...that tank is a 20 long for sure IMO, at least it looks identical to the one I have for QT.
Seriously, yes we all know that most any respectable saltwater fish expert or dealer, blah blah.... will tell you that you need at least a 75 gallon tank for a piccaso trigger, but with the fish's current size you could squeak by for a little while with your 55 gallon it may not be idea for the long run but the fish isn't that large yet. I think what everyone may be hinting at is that you should just add a little more money now and go ahead and get at least the 75-100 gallon needed for the long haul. The price isn't that much more for a nice sized 75 gallon tank, but I would try for the 100 if possible.
I've got to say as far as aggression with the picasso triggerfish though, I know it really comes down to the temperment of the individual animal, but most ALL websites and information pages, experts, etc. etc. including SWF.com, will tell you that generally the humu humu is one of the lesser aggressive triggerfish other than the more reef safe blue throats and such.
I would say your wrong, generally speaking, if you say that they are one of the most aggressive triggers, that is untrue if you refered to the entire species of piccaso's. The clown, the dreaded undulated, Rectangular, triggers along with the Queen, certainly, and so forth earn those spots in reality, but is any trigger really passive? Heck no, but I wouldn't be so quick to "black ball" the picaso out of all those other aggresive triggers, put them where they belong in the middle of the line of aggression. They are terrific fish, one that every trigger lover should try, given the right applications, of course.
 

chadg

Member
Well, I was not going to bore everyone with history, but now that I'm getting
for improper treatment of my poor trigger, here is the long boring story....

It started about 6-7 years ago when my wife wanted a fish tank. She picked up a 72 gal on Craig's list. I really had no interest, but I liked looking at them once she got it. Some time after that she got the 20 gallon and put the trigger in and clown in. OK, what ever I did not know anything about fish.
Fast forward 5 years... Both tanks were just a mess because she just did not have the time to put in to them anymore (started her own business). I finally said, well we either do it right or we need to get rid of both of them.
So, I then took over and have sense got bitten by hobby and love it. So, great now it is my hobby! My first order of business was to take care of the 72. I put about $1500 into it and now have it in good shape. I'm now looking to the 20 gal to make it better.
One of my problems is that I only have so much space for it and can't really go any bigger than the 55 corner tank I found. Anything else won't fit there. I figure these guys have been in this tank for over 5 years, so more than doubling their space has got to be good. With the new space if I could add something else that would be great. I get the point, though. Maybe there is not actually more space and this should all be for them.
As to the health of my Trigger he is fine. He is not stressed and he does eat out of my hand. Well tongs I don't want to get my fingers that close
. He only hides when I go in for cleaning and really disturb things.
As for the algae problem I'm well aware of that as well and just don't know what to do about it. I have not put crabs or snails in because I thought the trigger would eat them, NO?
I also generally have a nitrate problem because it is so small. That is also where I want the larger tank. I'll have more water volume and I also will have room to put a skimmer and maybe a turf filter below.
So, thanks for the advise and any other people can give, I can always depend on people speaking their mind here
 

small triggers

Active Member
If the 55 is all you can fit in your space,(i think the 75/90g corner just projects more forward ???), make sure its reef ready so you can have a sump,,, as triggers get bigger, they create a HUGE bioload,, believe me I have 4 in a 150 w/5 other fish and a 45g sump. It would help alot to have a sump with a skimmer and be able to put some phos ban in it, if you need it then.
 

crypt keeper

Active Member
Chadg. Okay. I apologize. I just have a the same fish. He is my favorite right now and Id be ticked off if something happened to him.
Personally if the 55 is the only tank you have size for maybe you should go another route. Less aggressive tank with corals and a community tank with some blennies. Gobies. Clowns and stuff of that sort.
If you really cared for that fish you would find it a home with a bigger tank and somebody who shares your same passion. The fish will be better off and really isnt that what this site is all about? How to have the right this and that to house these fish correctly with respect? If you cant do that dont be selfish and make the animal suffer. The right thing is to turn the fish loose and set your tank up correctly so that you enjoy it as well.
 

prime311

Active Member
Personally I don't really see much of a difference between a 75 and a 55. They're wider and thats it. You need a longer tank for larger fish. Gluck finding a mate for the Humu Chad. Unfortunately I don't feel comfortable suggesting mates as I still worry about aggression from a Humu in a smaller tank. I will at least suggest to avoid the Lions and any fish that gets larger then 6" in a 55 gallon.
 

locoyo386

Member
Hi there,
Just my peronal opinion, just like anyother that I have posted.
I think that if that tank looks like that after 5 years, he must be doing something right. It does not look horrible to me. If the fish have been living in that tank for 5 years (when some put fish in a 125 gallon tank and dies with one year or so), than he must be doing something right. I am not a fish schycologist to definetly determine the stress level of the fish. I am not a fish doctor either to determine the stress level of the fish. Therefore I can not say with certainty that the fish is not stressed, but if he is eating right and swimming right and looks as healthy as he does in the picture. maybe he is not as stressed as we think (say with certainty that he is) he is.
From my understanding about this hobby I would not recomend anyone doing that. From my experience with my niger trigger, I think he likes the old 10 gallon tank he was in more than the 55 gallon tank he is now. Maybe animals like humans adapt to their habitat and do not really like to go to knew ones. I do not know the answear to that question, but the fish looks healthy in my opinion.
ONCE AGAIN THIS IS JUST MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER.
After all this hobby is based on trial and error, right?
 

txfishman

Member
one thing i would like to add about the above comment is: yes this hobby is about trial and error but the trial and error you are dealing with can either kill/torture/or have the fish live in a completely peaceful enviorment.
This is also just my opinion.
 

small triggers

Active Member
My option for a tankmate for your huma in the large tank would be either an eightline or sixline wrasse, or maybe a larger flasher wrasse. You could also think about a pygmy angel,,, something like a flame angel,, the one i had did great with my triggers (though they crushed him with a rock when they pushed it over ontop pf him) I still think they are sorry for killing him though. You jsut need something that is a bit aggressive and doesnt get huge,,, another good one is a maroon clown,,, mine is MORE aggressive than my huma
 

chadg

Member
You are correct, the trial and error we go through is at the expense of the animal and we all need to respect that. That is why I'm trying to do the right thing and get him in a bigger tank. I hate to see cramped fish, that is why I don't understand people keeping those beta fish in a fish bowl the size of my fist! Just looking at them make me crazy....
I'm no fish doctor either, but I do think that he is NOT stressed and is not suffering. He has been very healthy for the last five years. Would he like a bigger place to roam, probably, but I don't think he is suffering.
Ask yourself an honest question though, is *ANY* tank that we can have in our home fair to most fish? Even if he were in a 200 gal tank does that even come close to his natural habitat? NO! So, if you really care that the animal have the best environment than that would be the open ocean. None of these guys want to be a captive situation, so be real, that is what you are their captor. A nice one that feeds them every day and gives them the best home possible, sure, but it is not same as being free.
If I felt this fish was suffering any more than any other captive fish in the world I would get rid of him tomorrow, but I truly don't think he is. So, as his friendly captor, I'm going to give him the best home I can...

Small Triggers - Thanks for the tank mate suggestions. Once I move them I think I'll wait to see how they do, then see if I should even add more. I'm thinking to keep the alge down just the two of them may do.....
 

crypt keeper

Active Member
Originally Posted by chadg
http:///forum/post/2905591
You are correct, the trial and error we go through is at the expense of the animal and we all need to respect that. That is why I'm trying to do the right thing and get him in a bigger tank. I hate to see cramped fish, that is why I don't understand people keeping those beta fish in a fish bowl the size of my fist! Just looking at them make me crazy.....
Dont be a hyopcrite. You are that person with your fish. How can you not see that? When you upgrade your tank you will still be that person.
Originally Posted by chadg
http:///forum/post/2905591
Ask yourself an honest question though, is *ANY* tank that we can have in our home fair to most fish? Even if he were in a 200 gal tank does that even come close to his natural habitat? NO! So, if you really care that the animal have the best environment than that would be the open ocean. None of these guys want to be a captive situation, so be real, that is what you are their captor. A nice one that feeds them every day and gives them the best home possible, sure, but it is not same as being free.....
You cant be serious. So its natural Habitat or a 15 gallon tank. WOW! That makes sense. Don't sit here and preach then put your animal in the smallest possible tank you can. So by what you are saying then we should all get rid of every animal. Don't start making excuses because you are an irresposnible pet owner.
Originally Posted by chadg

http:///forum/post/2905591
If I felt this fish was suffering any more than any other captive fish in the world I would get rid of him tomorrow, but I truly don't think he is. So, as his friendly captor, I'm going to give him the best home I can...
.....
read the first paragraph you typed.
 

prime311

Active Member
I dont really see any point getting down on the guy. Its not like this is anew tank he's planning, this is just the situation he was handed. Theres much worse things going on in fish stores and those stupid asian-style tanks. If I had a fish I kept healthy and happy in a 20 gallon for 5 years I wouldn't want to be taking them back either.
 

chadg

Member
This will be my last response about the tank size thing because this is really getting pointless now, but all I have to say is 'what ever'. We all will take what ever positions about this that we want to. I feel that my fish is healthy and fairly happy. He will be happier in a larger tank. That is what I'm going to do.
The original question was if I should put more in after the upgrade and in particular a lion. Thank you all that gave constructive feedback (including you crypt keeper
). I think the consensus is that definitely no lion and maybe none at all.....
I'll post some pics when I do upgrade....
 

locoyo386

Member
Originally Posted by chadg
http:///forum/post/2896597
I'm about to upgrade one of my tanks up to a 55 gallon corner type from a small 15gal. The only thing in there is live sand and rock, a clown fish and Picasso Trigger.
Once I get the bigger tank, would I be able to add a lion fish safely? Will the three get along do you think? Am I limited to a dwarf lion with that setup?
Thanks for any advise...
This is where the trial an d error gets complicated. Most everyone here says DO NOT put a trigger with a lion fish. If this is an obsolute truth, than it will be the same all the time. I do know for a fact that this is not true, as I have seen this done. Is there a guarantee that it will work, definelty NO. Is there a guarentee that it will NOT work, I would have to say no. So as intellegent as we are, we came up with a system that gives us probability. Is it possible for these two fish to get along, YES. The true question is: What is the probability of these two fish getting along? I do not know that answear, does anyone here know the answear to that question?
 

krazykarel

Member
Originally Posted by chadg
http:///forum/post/2904366
Well, I was not going to bore everyone with history, but now that I'm getting
for improper treatment of my poor trigger, here is the long boring story....

It started about 6-7 years ago when my wife wanted a fish tank. She picked up a 72 gal on Craig's list. I really had no interest, but I liked looking at them once she got it. Some time after that she got the 20 gallon and put the trigger in and clown in. OK, what ever I did not know anything about fish.
Fast forward 5 years... Both tanks were just a mess because she just did not have the time to put in to them anymore (started her own business). I finally said, well we either do it right or we need to get rid of both of them.
So, I then took over and have sense got bitten by hobby and love it. So, great now it is my hobby! My first order of business was to take care of the 72. I put about $1500 into it and now have it in good shape. I'm now looking to the 20 gal to make it better.
One of my problems is that I only have so much space for it and can't really go any bigger than the 55 corner tank I found. Anything else won't fit there. I figure these guys have been in this tank for over 5 years, so more than doubling their space has got to be good. With the new space if I could add something else that would be great. I get the point, though. Maybe there is not actually more space and this should all be for them.
As to the health of my Trigger he is fine. He is not stressed and he does eat out of my hand. Well tongs I don't want to get my fingers that close
. He only hides when I go in for cleaning and really disturb things.
As for the algae problem I'm well aware of that as well and just don't know what to do about it. I have not put crabs or snails in because I thought the trigger would eat them, NO?
I also generally have a nitrate problem because it is so small. That is also where I want the larger tank. I'll have more water volume and I also will have room to put a skimmer and maybe a turf filter below.
So, thanks for the advise and any other people can give, I can always depend on people speaking their mind here

Dude, I'm good with that explanation. IMO you don't have to justify yourself to us! People here have strong opinions and as I have found have strong opinions on things they have done themselves

I think you are good to go with the 55 for now. Picasso's grow very slowly and you can accommodate in the future if you care to do so.
 

chadg

Member
Well some of you may be happy to know that my triggers new home is almost ready. It is a 92gal corner tank and is looking great! I'll post some more pics when he is in....
Chad.
 

crypt keeper

Active Member
I will be the first to say. That is awesome. Congrats. Im sure your fish will be happy as a pig in mud. Nice tank.
 
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