Placement of sump

pstanley

pstanley

Member
Due to my poor planning, I only have 14 1/4" height and 10 3/4" depth in my stand. I have done a ton of research and cannot find a sump/skimmer that will meet these requirements. Does anybody know of anything that will work on a 60 gallon (using an overflow box) and will fit? Would I be better off making one out of an aquarium? My other option is to put it behind the wall (behind the display tank). I assume this depends on the pump strength but what is the allowable distance from the sump to the display tank? My concern is the furnance is on the other side of this wall so I would like to pull the sump away from it as far as possible.
If I didn't already run dedicated electricity and lay a tile pad (among other "improvements" ) I would locate the tank somewhere else.
Thanks in advance for any help.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
I saw a build one time where the sump was something like 100ft from the display tank and 15foot down in a basement. If you can dream it, it can be done (most of the time.)

The first option is to simply re-build your stand. Add more height to it - cut the bottom of it off and re-build... or you could add a base to the stand to add another 12" of room, and the doors on the front would be tiny and you would have to reach down into the stand to work on the sump... which isn't a completely bad idea.

Second option is to custom build your own sump out of glass, to fill the entire bottom of your stand - it shouldn't hold less than 20g of water, since you have a 60g display.

Third option is to put it in your furnace room... you can do some more tile work, and add a couple of walls and build a "bench" over the top of the sump that is completely insulated off from the heat of the furnace. Then, monitor your tanks temp often to see where it's fluctuating (or not.)

Fourth option: Get out while you still can! Cut your losses, sell your stuff, call it a midlife crisis and save your money.

So, there are four options for you to consider... let us know what you decide.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
The distance from the sump to the tank is generally not an issue (unless you locate the sump in a separate zip code). More important is the height differential and the number of turns the pipe takes. If you look at the box for any pump it will have a table that tells you the flow rate at various heights (the pressure head). Simply choose a pump that will deliver the flow you want against whatever pressure head you have in your set-up. I generally add 12" to the pressure head for each 90 degree turn. Being close to the furnace is more of a problem since heat can become a problem. I have the sump for one of my tanks in an adjacent room which is often at a different temperature from the room where the display is located, so I have a heater in the display so that I know that the temperature in that tank reflects conditions in that room, not where the sump is located. Given that you are concerned about furnace heat driving the temperature up in the sump, I would also be sure to use an in-line pump rather than a submerged unit for the return (and for the skimmer, if possible) so that you won't be adding pump waste heat to the water. This is a noisier arrangement, but in a furnace room a small rumble shouldn't be a problem.
 
pstanley

pstanley

Member
SnakeBlitz33 - Unfortunately the stand is not one that I built myself...it came from Petsmart. It doesn't have the quality necessary to modify or rebuild. I would be able to custom build the sump into the stand though since it is over 4' long so that is an option. I think I am leaning towards putting it in the furnance room and routing the piping around towards the other side of the room. I hadn't anticipated running the water with PVC pipe though...I was hoping to just use the flexible stuff that normally comes with a sump. I assume overflow boxes have connections to be able to connect PVC directly to it or do you first connect to something flexible before connecting to the overflow? Option 4 isn't an option....I already used my car as my midlife crisis (according to my wife) so that is out :)
GeriDoc - The height difference would be roughly 5-6 feet but I could always raise the sump to be closer in height to the overflow if that helps. As long as I am not directly behind the tank (where the furnance sits) I think the heat/air won't be an issue. It is a large room which not only houses the furnance but also a fridge and roughly 18' X 6' of storage.
Thanks to the both of you for your continued help.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
I have done long runs with both flexi and rigid, and while PVC is more difficult to put in place, I prefer it. One of the main reasons I like PVC is that once you put it into place you know exactly where it is and how level it is. Flexible hose will sag and may leak at the clamps. That said, my 220 is plumbed with flexible hose and my 40 gallon reef is all PVC. Both are fine. In other words, don't overthink it.
 
snakeblitz33

snakeblitz33

Well-Known Member
Petsmart stands, built out of MDF board, really soak up a lot of water over time. They eventually WILL fail, and when that happens, you will have 60g of saltwater on the floor and potentially thousands of dollars of livestock dead. It could happen while your at work, or when your having a business meeting or family get together... I can just picture a grandkid saying "Why is Nemo on the floor?!"

What I suggest is to sell your pre-fabbed POS stand and either build a stand yourself or have one built for you, in the proper dimensions, shape, height and size that suits your needs. It is absolutely incomprehensible for me to think of you putting a hole into a wall of your furnace room and having to modify your house to fit your pre-fabbed POS stands needs... That's just... no. Don't do it. Spend the money to have an actual solid wood and plywood stand (painted or stained, sealed, and leveled.)

Remember, this is a hobby and you don't have livestock yet. TAKE THE TIME necessary to make the right changes and to do it right the first time.
 
pstanley

pstanley

Member
Yeah, I hear ya regarding the quality of the Petsmart stand. I will think about how I want to go forward. For the record.......my oldest kid is only 14 so I don't want to even think about grandkids lol.
GeriDoc - I will probably end up going with the PVC regardless of which stand I go with. I like the idea of having the sump in a different room where I have plenty of space for maintenance. Plus if the sump ever ends up flooding, it is in the unfinished part of the basement where there is a drain. I just didn't realize I could have the sump that far away from the display tank.
 
pstanley

pstanley

Member
I went home yesterday and looked at where everything would go. Just a few more (probably stupid) questions........when running the PVC (or flexible tube) from the overflow to the sump, do I gradually go from the height of the overflow to the sump or do I come off of the overflow, go straight down, then go horizontally until I reach the sump? I assume coming back it doesn't matter since it is being pumped? Also, regarding the PVC parts that will be needed, are these speciality aquarium parts or can they be purchased at home depot? I know the common pieces can but I was talking more about the unions, check valves, etc. Finallly, what is the normal diameter PVC that is used (or does it just depend on the connections at the overflow and sump)
Thanks in advance.
 
geridoc

geridoc

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pstanley http:///t/396484/placement-of-sump#post_3532806
I went home yesterday and looked at where everything would go. Just a few more (probably stupid) questions........when running the PVC (or flexible tube) from the overflow to the sump, do I gradually go from the height of the overflow to the sump or do I come off of the overflow, go straight down, then go horizontally until I reach the sump? I assume coming back it doesn't matter since it is being pumped? IMHO, it wouldn't matter, whichever arrangement works best for your installation. Be sure that you include a siphon break at the tank so that in the event of a power failure the sump won't drain the display. Also, regarding the PVC parts that will be needed, are these speciality aquarium parts or can they be purchased at home depot? Home Depot stuff is fine. I know the common pieces can but I was talking more about the unions, check valves, The only role for a check valve seems to be to fail at a critical time. Do not design the system to rely on check valves. Rely instead on siphon breaks. etc. Finallly, what is the normal diameter PVC that is used (or does it just depend on the connections at the overflow and sump) I usually rely on the size of the fittings that go on the pumps. If the pump has a 1/2" outlet you could attach a 4" pipe to it using an adapter, but the 1/2" diameter is still the functional diameter of the run since that is the bottleneck.
Thanks in advance.
 
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