Planning first saltwater tank; still have LOTS of questions!

[meglovin]

Hello everyone! I've been keeping freshwater tanks for many years, and I'm ready to try something new. So, I decided to try my hand at saltwater!
I will be using a 10 gallon tank (due to the fact that I have an extra, and I would rather keep investments minimal until I'm sure I enjoy saltwater as much as I do freshwater) but I'm not sure where to begin. I have a hood with one fluorescent and one incandescent bulb (though I would rather have both be fluorescent eventually), equating to about 40 watts; I also have a filter from an old freshwater setup (filters 10-20 gallons) , and my API Freshwater Master Test Kit. That's about it!
So, what next? I think I would rather start with a fish only tank (my brief research on reefs gave me the impression they are expensive) but I don't know what to do. Are live rock AND live sand a must? If so, how much should I look for? A friend has lots of 'dead' live rock that I heard I could revive; is this a good idea? I read something online about putting it in a bucket with a powerhead and it will come back to life, but is it really going to work if its dead? Will my API testing kit be adequate for testing my tank's nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia? I plan on being VERY patient with the cycle, so should I plan on waiting 6 weeks (like freshwater) for the cycle to finish? Can I add pure ammonia to the tank like I did with my freshwater to start the cycle? Also, during the cycle, I heard its a good idea to add a 'cleanup crew' of some sort. Should I plan on this or wait until its completely cycled? Whats a good 'cleanup crew' for a 10 gallon?
Since I don't have a reef (and the tank is small), I'm assuming I can't have clown fish, dragonets, or seahorses (these were the species my boyfriend REALLY wanted me to look into.) Is that true? What are some good, colorful, interesting, HARDY fish that could live in a 10 gallon its entire life if I decide I don't want to upgrade? I would love to have an interesting/entertaining fish or a fish combo. Something fun to watch! And what about maintenance? I heard saltwater is so 'expensive' and 'tedious' to maintain; why is this so? What additional maintenance do these tanks require besides water changes? If I do a 10% weekly water change like I do with my freshwater, will that be sufficient? Or do I need to do more since its a small tank?
What other equipment do I need? Do I NEED a protein skimmer, better lights, a different filter, a hygrometer (refractometer?), and a heater? My tanks right now are sitting between 80-82 degrees right now without heaters, so will this be acceptable for saltwater? I know I need a powerhead; what kind should I look for? Will the saltwater 'destroy' my tank since it was more designed for freshwater?
I'm planning on doing fake decorations to mimic a reef; is this a good idea? Will my options for fish be limited by this decision? Are there any saltwater live plants I can add to the tank that will be low maintenance?
My last concern are chemicals. My tap water has a pH between 8.0-8.2, but I heard you aren't supposed to use tap water. Will I need chemicals to raise the pH of whatever water I use? Does it have to be RO water, or could I use bottled/filtered water for water changes (I would attempt to use a friend's RO system for the initial setup)? The following chemicals are on clearance at my LFS... should I buy them? Do I NEED them?
Kent Chromaplex
Kent Pro Buffer dKH
Seachem Reef Complete Calcium
Seachem Reef Plus Vitamins and Amino Acids
Any other chemicals I should get?
Thank you SO much!! I appreciate it!

 

[flower]

Hi, and welcome to the site.
The smaller the tank, the harder to maintain it. I personally would not go smaller than 30g…that’s just me. On a 10g tank the equipment you need becomes a challenge, like a tiny skimmer that actually works like it should. I do recommend a skimmer, everyone has their own opinion on if you need one or not.
If you like seahorses, a tall tank and get captive bred larger horse species not dwarfs. They are no harder to keep than regular fish, they eat frozen mysis. I have kept a reef and many fish over the years, all I have now are seahorses…I LOVE them! I converted my 90g reef into a potbelly seahorse tank, and I have a 56g tall tank in my bedroom with Kuda seahorses. The red Marco-algae is IMO as beautiful as any coral. The only thing is, instead of fancy lights…you would have to get a fancy chiller since seahorses like it on the cool side.
Live rock is indeed a must. It offers a safe place for the fish to hide and feel secure, and is your natural filter, giving the good bacteria something to build on. What makes it “live’ are the tiny critters that live in it. Isopods, copepods and amphipods…tiny little serpent stars and bivalves. Once dried out the rock is dead and won’t revive no matter how much water you add to it. However you can re-seed the dry rock by putting it with live rock, or you can seed the rock with tiny critters from an on-line critter farm (that’s what I did) it’s cheaper than rock.
Fake décor only gives algae a place to grow, macro-algae are very decorative, and as you remove the extra growth (called harvesting) it keeps the water quality pristine.
You also need lab type SALTWATER test kits, not strips. You can use your old filters and you can indeed use pure ammonia to kick start the cycle… fish only, your lights are fine, but a nice T5HO light would make the tank and critters look better.
With regular water changes you won’t need to supplement the water with anything. I prefer sand over crushed coral for the substrate; it’s just easier for the CUC (snails, crabs, serpent or brittle sea-stars) to keep clean…unlike freshwater critters that eat algae…SW CUC critters really do their job. In a 10g you can keep only 2 small fish and maybe a couple of peppermint shrimps. SW fish are very territorial and need their space. A single Royal Gramma and maybe a firefish or other small goby would fully stock a 10g tank.
Almost forgot…get your own reverse osmoses (RO) unit or purchase your water from a grocery store, don’t use tap water at all. I used 5g jugs to haul water for years before I got an RO unit. Never use tap water, it creates so many water quality issues down the road..it isn’t worth using it. Water evaporates, but not the salt. So to keep the SG (saltiness) at the right level, we keep the water level at the original line...called topping off. So you will be using quite a bit of RO water. A unit should be your first purchase. A refactometer is the most accurate but a hydrometer will be good enough to use just to keep the SG within range and check to make sure the new mixed water change water matches the main tank.
A heater or chiller is needed depending on the critters you want to keep and how your home affects the tank temps.
Here is a picture of my Kuda horse tank with red and green macros

 

[snakeblitz33]

Wow, yeah, that's a lot of questions... most of them can be answered in this thread: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/388776/guides-for-new-hobbyists Just click on the links to all the articles and read them carefully. You will learn a lot and can make better decisions about your tank.
Being a 10g tank, you should probably go with a fish only tank until you can gain some more experience. All you need is about 10 pounds of live rock for your tank - or you could mix it up with 5 pounds of real live rock to 5 pounds of dry base rock. Live rock does not become alive after being dried up - it doesn't work that way, sorry.
Your filter is fine to use in saltwater - just make sure it's the kind that has carbon built into the filter or you can add it in a filter basket. Carbon will remove a lot of toxins, organic matter and other materials that are really common in both fresh and saltwater systems. Your light that you have right now will make your fishes colors look drab under yellow lights. If you keep your fixture, you may want to consider buying a light that is in the 10,000k spectrum. This type of light is a lot more "crisp white" and will help keep the tanks colors and your fishes colors looking pretty.
There are many different types of macroalgaes that you can add to your tank that will help with reducing nitrates and phosphates as well as heavy metals and ammonia in your tank. Decorative macroalgaes include caulerpa prolifera, caulerpa mexicana, red gracileria, halimeda, pink galaxea algae, dragon tongue, red kelp and caulerpa racemosa - You have to keep these types of macroalgaes cut back pretty often or else they will "go sexual" and release their gametes into the water which fowls the water quality. But, if you just keep it trimmed back every now and then, there is no need to worry.
You could get a pair of Ocellaris clowns if you want - they are used to living their lives in small areas. Another fish that you might look at are small gobies, such as blue neon gobies and gold stripe neon gobies. Another pretty fair choice would be a possum wrasse or a candy stripe cardinal or pajama cardinal. if you go to an online retail website like this one - find a section called "nano fish" and look for fish that do well in 10g tanks.
A 10% water change on a 10g tank is 1 gallon... That's fine, as long as you can do proper water changes. Take a turkey baster and blast off all of your rocks to stir up the detritus and then do your water change using a small airline tube. Make sure you pre-mix your saltwater up for at least 24 hours before using. For a small fish only tank, Instant Ocean is a good brand of salt to use. Maintenance is what you make it - I find maintenance to be a soothing part of the hobby - making things clean and fresh again is just part of my personality that fits in well with a saltwater tank.
Clean up crew for a 10g tank is very minimal - you could go to your live fish store and probably purchase everything you need there. I would go hermit crab-less because hermits will eat snails and you will constantly have to replace the snails. For a 10g tank I would do 1 nassarius snail, 2 nerite snails, 10 zebra snails, 2 astrea/turbo snails - depending on how much algae there is in the tank. I wouldn't add a clean up crew until after the initial cycle is complete, then I would ghost feed the tank like there are one or two small fish in there and then I would re-test my water to make sure ammonia and nitrite are zero before I added a fish. If you can get your macroalgae in your tank upon startup, you may find that your tank cycles faster.
I recommend reading the "lets talk about cycling" thread at the top of the new hobbyist forum as well.
Those chemicals at the live fish store are absolutely not needed if you do weekly 10% water changes.
So, read my articles and you will be a lot more educated then 90% of the other fish tank owners out there.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Yeah, I highly recommend buying in your own RO/DI water as well... or buying your own unit. You could also use distilled water from the grocery store. Since a 10g tank does not evap that much water per week, you might just want to keep buying two gallons a week of distilled water.
I also recommend getting saltwater test kits as well - brand new ones and check the date. If your test kits are more then a year old, they need to be updated as well because the chemicals get old and they don't give you an accurate reading. A pH test in a freshwater test kit isn't a high range test kit that saltwater hobbyists need to test their water.
Your temp that your other tanks run will be fine for saltwater fish only tank, but if you want a reef tank at any time, you might want to consider trying to keep it between 77 to 80F with fans... But that means you will have to top your tank off more often.
Another thing not mentioned already is that you said in your original post (OP) that you have a hood for your light - this isn't recommended because it will prevent gas exchange from occurring which in turn lowers your pH. The pH of saltwater tanks should be about 8.2 to 8.3. With the lights off, your pH will drop down to 7.8 or so - but as long as it doesn't vary too much during the night/day it will be fine. But, if you keep the hood on your tank, you prevent oxygen from getting into the tank which will drive the pH down... anyways, sorry for stating it twice.

 

[meglovin]

Thank you so much! I appreciate the help.
I talked to someone today who said I can't have live rock in my tank because I don't have the proper lights. Is that true? They also said I would want to get a canister filter that would over-filter the tank because it is so small... I really don't want to do that if I don't have to. According to them, power filters would not provide adequate filtration, and they stated the carbon isn't that great for tanks and wouldn't provide any biological filtration.
Could I get away with not having a protein skimmer for a while, or is it something I REALLY should get? I've heard so many different things; some people say that I NEED it because the tank is so small, others say I don't need it because the tank is so small. I'm so confused.
A LFS sells saltwater for 60 cents a gallon (its an Instant Ocean blend) and other store sells imported sea water for $1.00 a gallon. Is that going to be more cost effective instead of making my own salt water and having to monitor the salinity and other levels?
Again, thank you!

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meglovin http:///t/392009/planning-first-saltwater-tank-still-have-lots-of-questions#post_3479120
Thank you so much! I appreciate the help.
I talked to someone today who said I can't have live rock in my tank because I don't have the proper lights. Is that true? They also said I would want to get a canister filter that would over-filter the tank because it is so small... I really don't want to do that if I don't have to. According to them, power filters would not provide adequate filtration, and they stated the carbon isn't that great for tanks and wouldn't provide any biological filtration.
Could I get away with not having a protein skimmer for a while, or is it something I REALLY should get? I've heard so many different things; some people say that I NEED it because the tank is so small, others say I don't need it because the tank is so small. I'm so confused.
A LFS sells saltwater for 60 cents a gallon (its an Instant Ocean blend) and other store sells imported sea water for $1.00 a gallon. Is that going to be more cost effective instead of making my own salt water and having to monitor the salinity and other levels?
Again, thank you!
LOL...In this hobby everyone has the method that has worked for them, and that's what they pass on. You get into trouble when you start listening to too many voices.
The store wants to sell you something, and often it's not a good place for advice because they hire folks at minimum wage and they really don't have much hands on experience. This site is great for advice because if we see somebody making a bad call...others pipe in and calls us on it and then we discuss it. So here you have a bit of a safety net so to speak.
You don't need a skimmer right away, in fact you can go without one altogether (I don't recommend you do that) however the NEED for one is at least 3 to 4 months down the line.
The comment about carbon is true, it does not provide biological filtration but it does provide chemical filtration. It helps to clean the water making it crystal clear and it removes toxins. The cheaspest way to get saltwater is mix your own...or...purchase the water at the highest SG they offer and dilute it to the correct SG yourself with RO water. Don't bother with the imported seawater. You don't need to worry with monitoring the salt level...set the tank and then top off with freshwater (RO) to keep the same SG level. Test the new mixed water to get it at the same SG as what is in the main tank when you do a water change. With regular water changes, you won't have to add suppliments, it really isn't that hard.
You can most certainly have live rock with your fish lights and even without any lights at all. The tiny critters actually prefer the dark. Tiny corals or coraline algae may not grow under no lights but it doesn't mean you can't have it. A canister filter is just fine, they even make one for a 10g ( I use a little one in my sump) It's an awesome little canister and works great. REMEMBER with a canister you need to swap out the media once a month at least. It does have a little spraybar which helps to add oxygen by agitating the surface of the water.
You will need a small nano power head or air line (no stone) to add some extra circulation to the tank, the wave is the life of the ocean, and your saltwater fish tank. Even if you get a hang on the back type of filter...the extra is needed.
This is the little filter I was speaking about...called Rapids mini filter, for tanks up to 20g and I purchased it at Foster and Smith. $35.00

 

[snakeblitz33]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meglovin http:///t/392009/planning-first-saltwater-tank-still-have-lots-of-questions#post_3479120
Thank you so much! I appreciate the help.
I talked to someone today who said I can't have live rock in my tank because I don't have the proper lights. Is that true? nope They also said I would want to get a canister filter that would over-filter the tank because it is so small... I really don't want to do that if I don't have to. dont have to. canisters are a lot of trouble. According to them, power filters would not provide adequate filtration, and they stated the carbon isn't that great for tanks and wouldn't provide any biological filtration. HOB filters are excellent for small tanks. Carbon removes toxins and chemicals - which is essential for smaller tanks. Carbon does not provide biological filtration, it provides chemical filtration by removing impurities from the water column. HOB (Hang On Back) filters actually provide more surface area for gas exchange and can provide most of the flow needed for smaller tanks. Depending on the size of your filter, you can put everything you need in it - such as (besides filters) carbon media, phosphate removal media, heaters, pH and temp probes, other probes, small skimmers, and even a refugium with macroalgae. Canister filters can't do that - and you have to clean them out every 30 days and wash half the media and replace the carbon and other media - and they get clogged up really easily and just have a lot of maintenance.
Could I get away with not having a protein skimmer for a while, or is it something I REALLY should get? I've heard so many different things; some people say that I NEED it because the tank is so small, others say I don't need it because the tank is so small. I'm so confused. You do not have to have a skimmer. If you keep up with water changes, being such a small tank, that shouldn't be very hard at all. Skimmers remove dissolved organics from the water column that can pollute your water over time. By doing water changes, you are removing these dissolved organics a different way - "The solution to pollution is dilution." If you don't want to spend a lot of money on a skimmer, consider the water bottle skimmer for $15 if you absolutely feel that you must have one.
A LFS sells saltwater for 60 cents a gallon (its an Instant Ocean blend) and other store sells imported sea water for $1.00 a gallon. Is that going to be more cost effective instead of making my own salt water and having to monitor the salinity and other levels? I'd go with the $0.60 a gallon Instant Ocean. Eventually you may have to learn how to mix water yourself. But, since you have such a small tank right now, spending $1.20+tax per week isn't that bad. People with larger tanks generally have to save money by mixing their own saltwater - but by the time you buy a pump to mix it with and .35 a gallon RO water and salt, you aren't saving any money really. More or less spending $1/g mixing your own instant ocean salt if you don't have an RO Unit and buy salt in bulk.
Again, thank you!

 

[flower]

Apologies...I thought you wanted a canister filter, I guess because you mentioned carbon. HOB filters are great for 10g tanks...you do still need a nano power head or air line (no stone) HOB filters are super easy to swap media and keep up with good water quality..

 

[rickross23]

Wow, yeah, that's a lot of questions... most of them can be answered in this thread: https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/388776/guides-for-new-hobbyists Just click on the links to all the articles and read them carefully. You will learn a lot and can make better decisions about your tank.
Being a 10g tank, you should probably go with a fish only tank until you can gain some more experience. All you need is about 10 pounds of live rock for your tank - or you could mix it up with 5 pounds of real live rock to 5 pounds of dry base rock. Live rock does not become alive after being dried up - it doesn't work that way, sorry.
Your filter is fine to use in saltwater - just make sure it's the kind that has carbon built into the filter or you can add it in a filter basket. Carbon will remove a lot of toxins, organic matter and other materials that are really common in both fresh and saltwater systems. Your light that you have right now will make your fishes colors look drab under yellow lights. If you keep your fixture, you may want to consider buying a light that is in the 10,000k spectrum. This type of light is a lot more "crisp white" and will help keep the tanks colors and your fishes colors looking pretty.
There are many different types of macroalgaes that you can add to your tank that will help with reducing nitrates and phosphates as well as heavy metals and ammonia in your tank. Decorative macroalgaes include caulerpa prolifera, caulerpa mexicana, red gracileria, halimeda, pink galaxea algae, dragon tongue, red kelp and caulerpa racemosa - You have to keep these types of macroalgaes cut back pretty often or else they will "go sexual" and release their gametes into the water which fowls the water quality. But, if you just keep it trimmed back every now and then, there is no need to worry.
You could get a pair of Ocellaris clowns if you want - they are used to living their lives in small areas. Another fish that you might look at are small gobies, such as blue neon gobies and gold stripe neon gobies. Another pretty fair choice would be a possum wrasse or a candy stripe cardinal or pajama cardinal. if you go to an online retail website like this one - find a section called "nano fish" and look for fish that do well in 10g tanks.
A 10% water change on a 10g tank is 1 gallon... That's fine, as long as you can do proper water changes. Take a turkey baster and blast off all of your rocks to stir up the detritus and then do your water change using a small airline tube. Make sure you pre-mix your saltwater up for at least 24 hours before using. For a small fish only tank, Instant Ocean is a good brand of salt to use. Maintenance is what you make it - I find maintenance to be a soothing part of the hobby - making things clean and fresh again is just part of my personality that fits in well with a saltwater tank. 
Clean up crew for a 10g tank is very minimal - you could go to your live fish store and probably purchase everything you need there. I would go hermit crab-less because hermits will eat snails and you will constantly have to replace the snails. For a 10g tank I would do 1 nassarius snail, 2 nerite snails, 10 zebra snails, 2 astrea/turbo snails - depending on how much algae there is in the tank. I wouldn't add a clean up crew until after the initial cycle is complete, then I would ghost feed the tank like there are one or two small fish in there and then I would re-test my water to make sure ammonia and nitrite are zero before I added a fish. If you can get your macroalgae in your tank upon startup, you may find that your tank cycles faster.
I recommend reading the "lets talk about cycling" thread at the top of the new hobbyist forum as well.
Those chemicals at the live fish store are absolutely not needed if you do weekly 10% water changes.
So, read my articles and you will be a lot more educated then 90% of the other fish tank owners out there.
Macroalgaes do NOT do anything with phosphates.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Macroalgaes do NOT do anything with phosphates.Do you seriously want to go there with me Rick? How long have you been in the hobby? Have you had over 100 saltwater tanks and have 15 years of experience like me? Go back and do your research young man. Then come back and try to tell me that.

 

[snakeblitz33]

And after i read my previous post several times, i realize that was very harsh. Even though you are still incorrect, i realize that you are only trying to help. I hope you realize that i am only harsh on you because i like yah as a friend and want you to stick around and help others by giving accurate, researched and well thought out information. Your a nice kid, stick around and listen and learn from those who have done more research and have more experience than you.

 

[btldreef]

Snake, play nice
Rick, where did you come up with the idea that macroalgaes do nothing for phosphates. Macroalgaes LIVE off of phosphate and nitrate in our tanks, that's what helps them grow. I'm well aware that I have phosphates in my tank, but I never see them because I have a huge display refugium with all different species of macro algae in it to control the issue, so I get a reading of 0ppm. My macros all grow like crazy and I have to harvest my caulerpa twice a week because it sucks out so much. I had it go sexual once and it made a mess of my water.
Here's another example:
Mangroves. Great for sucking out nitrates and phosphates. If the leaves drop back into the water and aren't removed, guess what happens. All the phosphate and nitrate that was just sucked out by these plants goes right back into the tank.

 

[rickross23]

Snake, play nice
Rick, where did you come up with the idea that macroalgaes do nothing for phosphates. Macroalgaes LIVE off of phosphate and nitrate in our tanks, that's what helps them grow. I'm well aware that I have phosphates in my tank, but I never see them because I have a huge display refugium with all different species of macro algae in it to control the issue, so I get a reading of 0ppm. My macros all grow like crazy and I have to harvest my caulerpa twice a week because it sucks out so much. I had it go sexual once and it made a mess of my water.
Here's another example:
Mangroves. Great for sucking out nitrates and phosphates. If the leaves drop back into the water and aren't removed, guess what happens. All the phosphate and nitrate that was just sucked out by these plants goes right back into the tank.
The owner of my lfs said he has a 500 gallon tank with a 120 gallon refugium with basically every kind of macro. He tried that for a while as his ONLY type of filtration. His phosphates were never 0. How do you explain that?

 

[meglovin]

Thank you again everyone. So if I'm buying pre-mixed saltwater, do I still need a refractometer? Also, if I use the 10 gallon, I bought this stuff called "salt creep eliminator that's supposed to combat erosion due to the salt. Is that good to use?
My filter is either a Tetra Whisper or Aqueon. Even though the brands aren't great, they're still okay?
I also came across a 14 gallon nano/bio cube at a used aquarium shop. It's up and running with sea horses so I know it runs. The guy will give me the tank with the skimmer, filter, the hood with 10k? lights, pump, stand, live rock, live sand, and the water for $190. Is my 10 gallon setup going to be cheaper or should I get it?

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meglovin http:///t/392009/planning-first-saltwater-tank-still-have-lots-of-questions#post_3479174
Thank you again everyone. So if I'm buying pre-mixed saltwater, do I still need a refractometer? Also, if I use the 10 gallon, I bought this stuff called "salt creep eliminator that's supposed to combat erosion due to the salt. Is that good to use?
My filter is either a Tetra Whisper or Aqueon. Even though the brands aren't great, they're still okay?
I also came across a 14 gallon nano/bio cube at a used aquarium shop. It's up and running with sea horses so I know it runs. The guy will give me the tank with the skimmer, filter, the hood with 10k? lights, pump, stand, live rock, live sand, and the water for $190. Is my 10 gallon setup going to be cheaper or should I get it?
I would just keep the 10g, if you go bigger go at least to a 30g. You will need to match the main tanks SG with new saltwater when you do water changes, so you need at least an hydrometer to help you match the SG then. You only really need a refractometer when you have sick fish and want to do hypo...then it's a must. Your HOB filters are just fine to use.
If your saltwater is properly balanced and you don't have a lot of splash, you won't have allot of salt-creep to worry about. I'm a huge fan of not using chemicals.

 

[btldreef]

The owner of my lfs said he has a 500 gallon tank with a 120 gallon refugium with basically every kind of macro. He tried that for a while as his ONLY type of filtration. His phosphates were never 0. How do you explain that?
Lack of proper harvesting for one.
Also, if that was his only filtration and he wasn't doing proper maintenance. Macros can only do so much if proper maintenance is not being executed.
Mainly, it's lack of harvesting the macros properly, which is common in large systems where they have lots of room to grow, people forget they still need to be harvested.

 

[meglovin]

Thank you. Will the Marineland Single Bright LED (60mW blue and white, 300 lumens) be sufficient for a saltwater and coral?

 

[btldreef]

No, the Marineland LEDs will not support coral.

 

[rickross23]

No, the Marineland LEDs will not support coral.
+1

 

[btldreef]

I should clarify because I have had success with the Marineland LEDs. They can support soft corals and macro algaes. I have a Marineland Double Bright Reef Capable over my QT frag tank (8G) and it supports SPS while being quarantined without any issues. That being said, I still don't know if I'd trust it long term for any light demanding corals.