Planning Sump Room - Pump Questions

[overanalyzer]

Well the move is almost over. We are in temp housing in Des Moines and by the end of this month we should be back in real housing. The new house has space for a sump room in the basement and a show tank upstairs. I have been researching as time allows and been pretty much non existent on the board here due to time and resource constraints.
I am guessing I will have around 19-23' of head pressure on my pump from my basement to the tank set-up. Thinking of a 140 or 125 tank with more of an aim towards lps and softies. The whole pump selection process is starting to hurt my head. Overload of information and too general or from sources I don't know very well!
I have been researching a bunch and I think the 1 inch drains will be widened out (under the tank) to 1 1/2 or 2 inch flexible pipes. With the same type of return narrowed down to 3/4" returns. I will then run a scwd off of each return.
Questions:
1. What kind of pump should I be looking @ here?? Opinions - seems like Sequence is pretty decent. Ampmaster, Iwaki, GRI and eheim's are also recommended. Opinions and real world application here folks. I do not want to be replacing leaky seals every 6-8 months.
2. Does this plumbing set-up sound pretty feasible?? I think I have way overestimated the actually foot head pressure distance - but hard to know without being in the house and setting items up.
3. Do those of you with basement sump systems run an exhaust fan? Dehumidifier?
For me I do not like fiddling with the set-up stuff once it is in place (hence the continual planning). So I want to have the tank as well set-up as possible.
I will have to post some pictures of my plan - but I will have a rubbermaid trash can act as the first stage catch area of the sump - then flow into another sump which is the open area where I can have a skimmer. I will have the gravity drain T-ed off to feed a 150 gallon refugium.
Then I will use the sump for multiple tanks - thus the catch "bucket" for the bigger tank. I want a smaller reef in the basement plus I have 2 - 22 gallons I will hook together and run into the same refugium and sump. I want to be able to hook up other sumps to this set-up so I can take advatange of the huge refugium.
Also - I am not planning on sps corals in the tank. Pretty and all - but I want more of a fish orientated reef tank. Plus the smaller tank in the basement will be a xenia only tank with either a eel or some other solitary aggressive fish (frog fish maybe??).
Thoughts - opinions - ideas??
HELP!!!
Attached is the first of three detailed visio diagrams I wiped up the other evening.
this is not to scale just shows the order of flow.....

 

[overanalyzer]

bump - anyone?? Bueller??

 

[overanalyzer]

50+ views and no opinions .... man go away from the board for a few months and things ahve changed so dramatically.... :nope:
What happened to all of you opinionated folks????

 

[russianspy]

WE got harassed

 

[robchuck]

Glad to hear you're almost in the new place and good to have you back around here. The boards seem to be really slow this summer and there are alot of new faces around.
I really like your idea of the catch bucket. That should really help to reduce microbubbles that would probably travel through the sump. In fact, I may borrow the idea when I get into my new place and start setting up my new reef.
Your head pressure estimation doesn't seem to be too far out of line, especially when SCWDs are factored in. Because of that 19-23' figure and having a few SCWDs inline, you'll definately want a pressure-rated pump. I personally prefer the Iwaki pumps, as they're fan-cooled and have a reputation of dependability. Blueline/Pan World makes almost identical pumps to the Iwakis, and I just purchased one to use as the return for the upcoming tank.
Your plumbing plan sounds solid, though unless you plan to use a massive pump with 2" in/out, I don't see any reason to use return plumbing any larger than 1 1/2".
With all of the water volume planned for this system, it would probably be a good idea to setup an exhaust system of some sort. Do you plan on having this setup in an enclosed room or out in the open? That would probably have a huge impact on how heat and evaporation are handled.
I have a few questions/comments though:
Do you plan on having supplementary flow through the tank, other than the return outlets?
What kind of vessel do you plan to use for the 150 gallon refugium?
How do you plan to baffle the catch bucket?
I've heard rumors of a 1" SCWD becoming available within the next month or so. This might allow more flow through your tank or allow you to use less of a return pump.
Best of luck moving into the new place!

 

[dsp]

I use a Dolphin Aqua Seas 4500 in a similar set up. It pumps water to two tanks in the basement, two filter cylinders in my sump, and the display tank on the first floor. It has been running non-stop for two years with no problems. I plan on taking it apart and cleaning it once a year. My only complaint is that it is very loud, but it is in the basement so the noise is not really an issue.

 

[msd2]

I use Iwaki. No trouble and have high pressure models. I personally would use 1 inch returns, why put extra pressure on the pump its already going up a decent distance.
My only other concern is that it all seems great but complicated and my theory is the simper the better. If your having the water go into a 150gal refug do u really need a seperate water bubble trap? Maybe your trying to get low flow through the fuge, but I just see problems here potentially. if either drain to the return pump gets clogged ur going to get overflow. One drain, one chance of a problem, does that make sense?

 

[msd2]

lol okay a few more things to simplify the blue circles are the things I would remove. BTW I just finished addin my fuge in and trust me u want as simple as possible
first:
the ball valves on the intake, no real point unless u want them for cleaning, the inlets will self regulate the water into the plumbing. If ur getting gurgle/noise put a durso in ur overflow if thats what ur using. Its not bad, but its another point for water to leak, or to cause something to get stuck/clogged.
the ball valve on the catch bucket same thing, what the point its regulated by the intake.
the durso on the fuge, i could easily see snails/plants clogging this water outlet. I use a durso on my oveflow and looking at it I would be really nervous about using it there w/o other screening around it. Again since ur just using gravity why not just have a few outlets on the top of the fuge say 1.5 pipes that go to the bottom sump tank? Ball valve on the refugium, no point, u want the water to leave quickly from the fuge once it gets to that point. And if ur holes for outlet are up on the top u can clean it w/o needing to shut it off.
Finally (im sure ur sick of reading by now) the durso in the sump tank, no purpose really, it wont be noisey, and if u want to keep a certain level of water us baffles, they wont clog.
btw i mentioned I just setup my fuge/sum and I used a seperate taller fuge setup that dumps into the sump and right before the return pump area is a set of 3 baffles. I get no bubbles at all.
I know this is a lot of changes to ur plan but if u step back and think about it them u see u have eliminated 6-7 points of possible problems. I still would suggest getting rid of the crash box, if ur looking for more water volume get a bigger sump tank.
Lol hope this helps and u said u were looking for feedback, im done now

 

[overanalyzer]

Thanks all - let me go through and address some of these items!

 

[overanalyzer]

Originally posted by RobChuck
I really like your idea of the catch bucket. That should really help to reduce microbubbles that would probably travel through the sump. In fact, I may borrow the idea when I get into my new place and start setting up my new reef.
Your plumbing plan sounds solid, though unless you plan to use a massive pump with 2" in/out, I don't see any reason to use return plumbing any larger than 1 1/2".
With all of the water volume planned for this system, it would probably be a good idea to setup an exhaust system of some sort. Do you plan on having this setup in an enclosed room or out in the open? That would probably have a huge impact on how heat and evaporation are handled.
I have a few questions/comments though:
Do you plan on having supplementary flow through the tank, other than the return outlets?
What kind of vessel do you plan to use for the 150 gallon refugium?
How do you plan to baffle the catch bucket?
I've heard rumors of a 1" SCWD becoming available within the next month or so. This might allow more flow through your tank or allow you to use less of a return pump.
Best of luck moving into the new place!
Thanks - I will baffle the catch bucket and gravity flow out - I wil llet you know how it goes - I figure it will be closed off and covered so minimal evvaporation and minimal salt spray and control of the initial bubbles!
Good point on the returns - I will look @ 1 inchers and step it down to the 3/4 inchers for the RR returns.
I am thinking of partially walling off that corner of my basement but it will be well vented and I will run some sort of exhaust fan - whether it goes outside or not is a different story!
Yes - supplement flow will be one maxi-jet (maybe a mag 3 but doubt it) hooked to a scwd (yes 3 scwds) behind the rock structure and moving water behind the rocks. One more maxijet middle level controlling a galaxy corals tentacles. Then I will see what kind of flow I get from there. I have toyed with the idea of a closed loop ....
I am using a huge rubbermaid container for my sump ONe of those farm feed buckets. I already have it lined up for purchase.
Baffles on the catch bucket will be tricky and pretty ghetto. I will use old rubbermaid container lids and start with a cardboard stencil. Since the catch bucket will be a doubled up rubbermaid trash barrel with a PVC brace (if needed) I will silicon those suckers into place.
I've heard those rumors for a while on the 1" scwd - I'm not holding my breath!
MSD - I have to run to a meeting but I will reply to yours next - with some thanks and explanations!
~ OA

 

[overanalyzer]

MSD - thanks so much for all the feedback - I will walk through and go point by point.
1. 1 inch returns sounds like the thing to do!
2. Should I use 1 inch drains as well??
3. My user name is Overanalyzer. Seriously though - one of hte reasons why it is complex is because I started with a very basic under tank system before I sold my last big tank. NOW I want to do things differently and if a bit of added complexity is required I will plan and engineer for it!
4. The vast majority of the water will drain in the the sump catch bucket with just a small T off into the refugium. I may have the drains combine in a wye (Y) and then T off from that Y. The reason is I want the refugium gravity fed and I don't want all the water through the 'fug is the slower flow.
5. The first set of ball valves are on the drain. I plan on using a ton of ball valves so I stop flow and connect into this filtering system down the road or service pieces of it. The last one I set-up did not have this feature and I did not like it!!
6. I too am worried about the Durso on the refugium. My original idea was to get a screen but now I think you make an excellent point - I will drill two overflow holes and screen both.
7. Ball valves off the 'fuge are so I can stop flow if I need to do maintenance or change out the sump. I don't plan on using them to slow flow unless I absolutely have to!
8. Durso in the sump??? Hmmmm how in the hell did that get there .... no I will have a direct drill out - I htink I was drawing in a skimmer there and just quit ....
9. I am going to have it so I can have multiple sump areas if need be for my tanks. That way I can add a sump - then use it as a QT area by stopping all flow to that smaller sized sump. Plus I am going with rubbermaid trash can and rubbermaid containers because they are durable, easy to brace and don't cost a lot. Plus I don't need to see into my sump.
Yes there is a method to my maddnes ....