plants for display tank
- Thread starter renogaw
- Start date
sly
Active Member
I feed my tangs chaetomorpha sometimes and they love it. It grows quickly in a tank but it's better to grow it in a fuge and then pick out pieces you need to feed them with because most tangs will eat faster than it can grow.
I don't know if you are going to get anything to grow as fast as needed and be nutritious for the fish in something as small as an aquarium. Setting up a seperate refugium is IMO your best option for fresh home grown food (plus it eats your nitrates and phosphates).
I don't know if you are going to get anything to grow as fast as needed and be nutritious for the fish in something as small as an aquarium. Setting up a seperate refugium is IMO your best option for fresh home grown food (plus it eats your nitrates and phosphates).
renogaw
Active Member
unless i can get some info on how to connect a fuge up to my system as it is now (wet/dry) i only have a hob fuge as an option, and no real place to put one that won't be ugly as sin. i'm stuck with the wet/dry until i can convince my wife that i need to spend more money and my equipment i bought 8 months ago isn't any good (yea right).
i don't have tangs, i was just hoping to get some natural feel to the tank, and there's always seaweed and such in the ocean. plus eventually i'll look at herbivores for the tank and i just figured there's gotta be something that grows in a tank that looks nice and the fish will nibble on.
i don't have tangs, i was just hoping to get some natural feel to the tank, and there's always seaweed and such in the ocean. plus eventually i'll look at herbivores for the tank and i just figured there's gotta be something that grows in a tank that looks nice and the fish will nibble on.
sly
Active Member
Connecting a fuge is easy. All I use is a simple 10 gallon tank. I glued with aquarium silicone a plexiglass wall in it to divide the tank into two sections. Then I joined the fuge to my sump with a simple "U" tube siphon. I got a tee to send some of my tank water to my sump and some of it to my fuge. You can use a valve to contol how much water goes to each. Usually you want slow water flow to a fuge.
I don't know much about keeping algae in the tank. I raise chaetomorpha but it won't look good in a display. There are other types like gracilaria algae but I don't have any experience in keeping them.
Here's how I have my fuge setup. I have it all under the stand and out of the way so it's not visible.
I don't know much about keeping algae in the tank. I raise chaetomorpha but it won't look good in a display. There are other types like gracilaria algae but I don't have any experience in keeping them.
Here's how I have my fuge setup. I have it all under the stand and out of the way so it's not visible.
renogaw
Active Member
god that's beautiful, thank you!
ok, how would the T tell the water to go one direction? gravity would make it want to go just straight down to the wet/dry wouldnt it? i guess if i put a ball valve under the T, and choked it down a little it would divert some water to the fuge, or if i can find a venturi T in plastic (or even make it i guess). would the fuge have to be higher than the wet/dry to make the siphon work properly, or is the higher water level in the fuge enough push to get it to work? does the water go over or under the partition? i have a mag500, is that enough of a pump, or do i need a bigger one? do i need a larger overflow?
i know that's a TON of questions, thank you very much for the picture
ok, how would the T tell the water to go one direction? gravity would make it want to go just straight down to the wet/dry wouldnt it? i guess if i put a ball valve under the T, and choked it down a little it would divert some water to the fuge, or if i can find a venturi T in plastic (or even make it i guess). would the fuge have to be higher than the wet/dry to make the siphon work properly, or is the higher water level in the fuge enough push to get it to work? does the water go over or under the partition? i have a mag500, is that enough of a pump, or do i need a bigger one? do i need a larger overflow?
i know that's a TON of questions, thank you very much for the picture
sly
Active Member
Originally Posted by renogaw
god that's beautiful, thank you!
ok, how would the T tell the water to go one direction? gravity would make it want to go just straight down to the wet/dry wouldnt it? i guess if i put a ball valve under the T, and choked it down a little it would divert some water to the fuge, or if i can find a venturi T in plastic (or even make it i guess). would the fuge have to be higher than the wet/dry to make the siphon work properly, or is the higher water level in the fuge enough push to get it to work? does the water go over or under the partition? i have a mag500, is that enough of a pump, or do i need a bigger one? do i need a larger overflow?
i know that's a TON of questions, thank you very much for the picture
The partition in the fuge seals along the bottom. It acts as a dam to divide the two water levels. Often a skimmer can not be fully submerged in water. Mine likes to operate at a depth of about 4 inches in my sump. By putting in the dam you allow the fuge and the sump to equalize to the same level.
You do not need to position the fuge any higher than the sump. As water spills over the dam it will cause the water level in the lower partition to rise. This rising action will cause the siphon to function. The water will flow through the siphon only as fast as the fuge fills... the system completely equalizes itself. If the pumps turn off... the water will stop flowing through the siphon, but since it is sealed where no air can get in, it will not break suction. Simply start the pumps back up and the siphon will continue. It is completely self regulating and completely simple to implement.
One thing I have learned about the U tube siphon is that you don't want the tube diameter to be TOO big. The bigger the tube the slower the water will flow through it. Think of a lazy river... it only flows fast when the river bed gets narrow and shallow... same thing with the U tube. You want some water flow through it because it will help flush out any micro bubbles that may collect in the tube over time. In a large diameter PVC tube the water will travel very slowly through the tube and any micro bubbles will begin to accumulate in the top. Eventually enough bubbles will accumulate to break the siphon. By keeping the tube diameter small, the water travels faster and it will draw the micro bubbles completely through the tube and you won't have bubbles collecting in it. I have found that a 1/2 inch PVC pipe works well for me.
Yes most of the water will go straight down the TEE and into the sump. But that's ok. You don't want heavy water flow through a fuge. Delicate root systems often do not tolerate heavy movements. You can install a valve below the TEE to give the fuge more water but I've seen enough spill over through the TEE naturally to not warrant a valve in my case.
As long as water evacuates the tank without overflowing then you don't need a bigger overflow. Most reef systems seem to operate best at about a 15-20 times turnover rate per hour. Take your tank size and multiply it by 15 to 20. These numbers will give you a range to look for... So for a 55 gallon tank, you need about 825-1100 gallons per hour of TOTAL water circulation. Water circulation is the combination of every pump in your system... powerheads and system pump. Anything that moves water around and distributes oxygen is considered part of your tank's overall turnover rate. If you have a pump on your skimmer then this does NOT count toward your turnover rate because this pump only circulates water through your skimmer and back out again. It does not directly pump water through your main tank...
Take your main pump and add it to any powerheads you have... that number in gallons per hour is your total tank turnover rate. This number should be 15-20 times your tank volume. If not then you need a bigger pump and more powerheads.
god that's beautiful, thank you!
ok, how would the T tell the water to go one direction? gravity would make it want to go just straight down to the wet/dry wouldnt it? i guess if i put a ball valve under the T, and choked it down a little it would divert some water to the fuge, or if i can find a venturi T in plastic (or even make it i guess). would the fuge have to be higher than the wet/dry to make the siphon work properly, or is the higher water level in the fuge enough push to get it to work? does the water go over or under the partition? i have a mag500, is that enough of a pump, or do i need a bigger one? do i need a larger overflow?
i know that's a TON of questions, thank you very much for the picture
The partition in the fuge seals along the bottom. It acts as a dam to divide the two water levels. Often a skimmer can not be fully submerged in water. Mine likes to operate at a depth of about 4 inches in my sump. By putting in the dam you allow the fuge and the sump to equalize to the same level.
You do not need to position the fuge any higher than the sump. As water spills over the dam it will cause the water level in the lower partition to rise. This rising action will cause the siphon to function. The water will flow through the siphon only as fast as the fuge fills... the system completely equalizes itself. If the pumps turn off... the water will stop flowing through the siphon, but since it is sealed where no air can get in, it will not break suction. Simply start the pumps back up and the siphon will continue. It is completely self regulating and completely simple to implement.
One thing I have learned about the U tube siphon is that you don't want the tube diameter to be TOO big. The bigger the tube the slower the water will flow through it. Think of a lazy river... it only flows fast when the river bed gets narrow and shallow... same thing with the U tube. You want some water flow through it because it will help flush out any micro bubbles that may collect in the tube over time. In a large diameter PVC tube the water will travel very slowly through the tube and any micro bubbles will begin to accumulate in the top. Eventually enough bubbles will accumulate to break the siphon. By keeping the tube diameter small, the water travels faster and it will draw the micro bubbles completely through the tube and you won't have bubbles collecting in it. I have found that a 1/2 inch PVC pipe works well for me.
Yes most of the water will go straight down the TEE and into the sump. But that's ok. You don't want heavy water flow through a fuge. Delicate root systems often do not tolerate heavy movements. You can install a valve below the TEE to give the fuge more water but I've seen enough spill over through the TEE naturally to not warrant a valve in my case.
As long as water evacuates the tank without overflowing then you don't need a bigger overflow. Most reef systems seem to operate best at about a 15-20 times turnover rate per hour. Take your tank size and multiply it by 15 to 20. These numbers will give you a range to look for... So for a 55 gallon tank, you need about 825-1100 gallons per hour of TOTAL water circulation. Water circulation is the combination of every pump in your system... powerheads and system pump. Anything that moves water around and distributes oxygen is considered part of your tank's overall turnover rate. If you have a pump on your skimmer then this does NOT count toward your turnover rate because this pump only circulates water through your skimmer and back out again. It does not directly pump water through your main tank...
Take your main pump and add it to any powerheads you have... that number in gallons per hour is your total tank turnover rate. This number should be 15-20 times your tank volume. If not then you need a bigger pump and more powerheads.
hagfish
Active Member
Renogaw, you could probably convert your wet/dry into a fuge if it's big enough. See if you can find a creative way to make a small one in there.
There are actually quite a few macro algaes that you could grow in your display. But there are downsides to most. For instance, if you don't have 24 hour lighting (which you really don't want in your dt) many algaes will go sexual and that can wreak havoc on a tank. Another potential problem exists if you have a reef. If so, many algae's can overgrow and kind of choke out corals.
I have some grape caulerpa that came on some live rock. It grows very tightly against rock and/or coral. So it makes it hard for things like zoanthids to open all the way. I also have some Halimeda (sp?) that came as a hitchiker. It looks nice and it pretty much stays where I it is if I keep it pruned. But I usually try to remove as much as I can for fear it will go sexual and cause a nitrate spike. I know some people like seagrasses too. I think they grow in the sand bed. All the macro's I've had were pretty easy to keep. So if you are OK with the risks I mentioned then I say just get one of the common easy ones and see how you like it.
There are actually quite a few macro algaes that you could grow in your display. But there are downsides to most. For instance, if you don't have 24 hour lighting (which you really don't want in your dt) many algaes will go sexual and that can wreak havoc on a tank. Another potential problem exists if you have a reef. If so, many algae's can overgrow and kind of choke out corals.
I have some grape caulerpa that came on some live rock. It grows very tightly against rock and/or coral. So it makes it hard for things like zoanthids to open all the way. I also have some Halimeda (sp?) that came as a hitchiker. It looks nice and it pretty much stays where I it is if I keep it pruned. But I usually try to remove as much as I can for fear it will go sexual and cause a nitrate spike. I know some people like seagrasses too. I think they grow in the sand bed. All the macro's I've had were pretty easy to keep. So if you are OK with the risks I mentioned then I say just get one of the common easy ones and see how you like it.
renogaw
Active Member
as it stands right now, my wet/dry is probably a little too small sizewise to be a fuge and filter. its about 1.5' long.
sly ty vm for your answers, you have no idea how much i appreciate it and sorry for jumping to conclusions i'm just so excited that i can try this
right now, i have a good idea on what to do, let me go see if i can flood my living room
sly ty vm for your answers, you have no idea how much i appreciate it and sorry for jumping to conclusions
i'm just so excited that i can try this right now, i have a good idea on what to do, let me go see if i can flood my living room
sly
Active Member
Flood away... Here's how I get my U tube set up...
I turn the U rightside up and fill it completely full of water. Then I put two PVC caps on it so that the water can't leak out. Then I put it in the tank and the fuge so that both ends are under water. Then I pop off the caps without lifting the U out of the water and getting air in it. Now the "U" is full of water and it will keep the level equal between your fuge and your sump.
Cut the PVC so that it comes just above the bottom of the fuge and sump. You want it to be about an inch from the bottom but not touching. This way the U is as deep as it can be which prevents it from getting a lot of air bubbles in it. Also if my return cloggs up and my sump pumps dry, there is still enough water in the sump to keep the U siphon from breaking. In other words my pump sits a little higher than the mouth of the U, so if the pump pumps all it can... there's still SOME water in the sump to keep the siphon.
Another idea I had (but haven't tried yet) is to put a TEE with a shutoff valve on the top of the U tube. Then you would need to attach a hose or some airline tubing to it somehow. Then to fill the U tube with water you would just set it down in the water, open the valve and suck on the hose until you fill the pipe completely full of water. Then just close the valve and for good measure put a plug in the end of the airline. Now it's primed and is much easier to do than trying to get some caps off the bottom under water.
I turn the U rightside up and fill it completely full of water. Then I put two PVC caps on it so that the water can't leak out. Then I put it in the tank and the fuge so that both ends are under water. Then I pop off the caps without lifting the U out of the water and getting air in it. Now the "U" is full of water and it will keep the level equal between your fuge and your sump.
Cut the PVC so that it comes just above the bottom of the fuge and sump. You want it to be about an inch from the bottom but not touching. This way the U is as deep as it can be which prevents it from getting a lot of air bubbles in it. Also if my return cloggs up and my sump pumps dry, there is still enough water in the sump to keep the U siphon from breaking. In other words my pump sits a little higher than the mouth of the U, so if the pump pumps all it can... there's still SOME water in the sump to keep the siphon.
Another idea I had (but haven't tried yet) is to put a TEE with a shutoff valve on the top of the U tube. Then you would need to attach a hose or some airline tubing to it somehow. Then to fill the U tube with water you would just set it down in the water, open the valve and suck on the hose until you fill the pipe completely full of water. Then just close the valve and for good measure put a plug in the end of the airline. Now it's primed and is much easier to do than trying to get some caps off the bottom under water.
hagfish
Active Member
Originally Posted by renogaw
as it stands right now, my wet/dry is probably a little too small sizewise to be a fuge and filter. its about 1.5' long.
sly ty vm for your answers, you have no idea how much i appreciate it and sorry for jumping to conclusions i'm just so excited that i can try this
right now, i have a good idea on what to do, let me go see if i can flood my living room
I'm not suggesting you leave it as a fuge AND a filter. At least not a wet/dry filter. You could change it into just a fuge with no wet/dry at all if you wanted to. It would save some money over buying or making a new fuge/sump. 18" or so is enough room to work with. You may have to have a HOB skimmer though.
as it stands right now, my wet/dry is probably a little too small sizewise to be a fuge and filter. its about 1.5' long.
sly ty vm for your answers, you have no idea how much i appreciate it and sorry for jumping to conclusions
i'm just so excited that i can try this right now, i have a good idea on what to do, let me go see if i can flood my living room
I'm not suggesting you leave it as a fuge AND a filter. At least not a wet/dry filter. You could change it into just a fuge with no wet/dry at all if you wanted to. It would save some money over buying or making a new fuge/sump. 18" or so is enough room to work with. You may have to have a HOB skimmer though.
renogaw
Active Member
sly:
Ok, i went to the P store, and they have a 10 gal for $12, or a complete setup with a light and misc stuff i wont need for $29. a totally enclosed top is $39 with a light. so... do i get the kit for $29 and chuck/offer to someone the rest, or what else do i do for a light?
Hagfish, ty for your suggestion too. i've not figured out a good way to turn mine into a refugium due to the setup of it. plus i already have a insump skimmer. for $30 and some pvc fittings, i'm gonna try out the refugium set up sly's suggesting
Ok, i went to the P store, and they have a 10 gal for $12, or a complete setup with a light and misc stuff i wont need for $29. a totally enclosed top is $39 with a light. so... do i get the kit for $29 and chuck/offer to someone the rest, or what else do i do for a light?
Hagfish, ty for your suggestion too. i've not figured out a good way to turn mine into a refugium due to the setup of it. plus i already have a insump skimmer. for $30 and some pvc fittings, i'm gonna try out the refugium set up sly's suggesting
sly
Active Member
IMO you will need at least 40 watts of lighting to grow plants in the fuge. If the complete kit supports 2 20 watt bulbs then I would get it and then hold onto the rest. You never know when you might need that stuff for a quarantine tank or to set up a hospital tank. Extra pumps come in handy...
Also you are going to need some plexiglass or whatever to make the partition. Make sure you use aquarium grade silicone. Don't use regular silicone. I tried that once and it caused HUGE problems. The difference is the way they cure. Regular silicone releases an acid as it cures which can poison your tank. Use aquarium silicone and let it dry for 24 hours before you fill the tank with water. For best results, seal both sides of the plexiglass so that it holds better. I cut mine with a jigsaw... It will may melt as you cut it and then try to reseal itself behind you... if you spray it with water and keep it cool it will not reseal itself and will be easier to cut.
Also you are going to need some plexiglass or whatever to make the partition. Make sure you use aquarium grade silicone. Don't use regular silicone. I tried that once and it caused HUGE problems. The difference is the way they cure. Regular silicone releases an acid as it cures which can poison your tank. Use aquarium silicone and let it dry for 24 hours before you fill the tank with water. For best results, seal both sides of the plexiglass so that it holds better. I cut mine with a jigsaw... It will may melt as you cut it and then try to reseal itself behind you... if you spray it with water and keep it cool it will not reseal itself and will be easier to cut.
renogaw
Active Member
one of the sets held 2 15w bulbs. i'm not sure what the light fixture by itself had. i remember someone saying to get one of those lights that people clip to a headboard of a bed/nightstand so i'll look into those.
so my shopping list is
10 gallon
some plexiglass
misc pvc fittings
aquarium silicone
how much sand should i put in it, about 2-3 inches worth?
so my shopping list is
10 gallon
some plexiglass
misc pvc fittings
aquarium silicone
how much sand should i put in it, about 2-3 inches worth?
sly
Active Member
The important thing is that you need a fixture that can handle grow lights. IMO fluorescent grow lights are MUCH better than incandescant lights. Incandescant lights are less efficient meaning that they generate more heat than they do light. Heat can damage plants if it gets too close. It sounds like that kit comes with that elongated standard light bulb... this will not work to grow plants. You need grow lights.
On mine I bought a seperate fluorescent fixture and mounted it above my 10 gallon tank. I put 2 20 watt fluorescent grow light tubes in it and it works well. I just used standard grow light bulbs from lowes. Aquarium grow lights are designed with certain frequencies filtered out so that it doesn't grow algae as good. But in my fuge I WANT to grow algae and so I just use regular grow lights. In your setup you may find that aquarium lights may work better... I just like regular grow lights better (besides they are cheaper)
I just put in a few scoops of my substrate and some live rock in my fuge... Some people prefer miracle mud. You might want to search for it on the internet. It looks interesting.
I would probably not go very deep with it. IMO two inches should be a max. In order to reduce nitrates you will need at least 4 inches of substrate and after all that you won't have much of a fuge left.
On mine I bought a seperate fluorescent fixture and mounted it above my 10 gallon tank. I put 2 20 watt fluorescent grow light tubes in it and it works well. I just used standard grow light bulbs from lowes. Aquarium grow lights are designed with certain frequencies filtered out so that it doesn't grow algae as good. But in my fuge I WANT to grow algae and so I just use regular grow lights. In your setup you may find that aquarium lights may work better... I just like regular grow lights better (besides they are cheaper)
I just put in a few scoops of my substrate and some live rock in my fuge... Some people prefer miracle mud. You might want to search for it on the internet. It looks interesting.
I would probably not go very deep with it. IMO two inches should be a max. In order to reduce nitrates you will need at least 4 inches of substrate and after all that you won't have much of a fuge left.
renogaw
Active Member
k, got the tank, used the aquarium glass siliccone, and got an 8x10 sheet of plexiglass. going to grab the plumbing tomorrow. i went and looked for a light but i couldn't remember what i needed so i'll have to write it down.
my wife was so excited to see a third tank enter the house...
my wife was so excited to see a third tank enter the house...
sly
Active Member
Hopefully you'll get this in time... when you build the "U" tube siphon you might have to experiment on the tube diameter. I just built the easy priming design I was talking about (this thread got me curious too) and it works perfect EXCEPT that a 1/2 inch diameter pipe will not flow very fast. I got confused as to what size my previous U tube was... I thought it was 3/4 inch but in reality it was 1 inch... It was the 1 inch tube that I was referring to when I said it was too big and would build up bubbles over time. IMO a 3/4 inch tube may be the best size, however a 1/2 works perfectly but it is a little slow... It will still stabilize a level of water between your fuge and your sump but because it is a little restrictive, the levels aren't quite equal as when I was using the large 1 inch tube. The level in the fuge is just a little bit higher because of the slight restriction. Anyway here's what I ended up doing:
I used 1/2 inch PVC but you may be better off with 3/4 if you can get all the hardware for it.
To use the U tube just suck on the airline tube until you see water in it. Then pinch it off and stick a golf tee in the end to seal it. That's it. Now water will flow from one tank to another.
[edit] I started a new thread in case anyone wants to see how to make a U tube siphon
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/243146/u-tube-siphon-joining-two-tanks-together#post_1877860
I used 1/2 inch PVC but you may be better off with 3/4 if you can get all the hardware for it.
To use the U tube just suck on the airline tube until you see water in it. Then pinch it off and stick a golf tee in the end to seal it. That's it. Now water will flow from one tank to another.
[edit] I started a new thread in case anyone wants to see how to make a U tube siphon
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/243146/u-tube-siphon-joining-two-tanks-together#post_1877860