please help - big nitrate problem

[valp]

I have a 92 gallon corner tank (rounded front) with fish only. i have a 7" panther grouper, 5" porcupine puffer, 3" humma trigger, 3" maroon clown, and 2 chocolate chip stars. No matter what i try, i can't get the nitrates below 80ppm. I really don't want to buy live rock because it takes away from the ornaments in have set up. I use a wet/dry sump with a berlin skimmer. I even bought that "Right Now!" bacteria with the tri-base carbon pellets which advertises a special bacteria strain that gets rid of nitrates - but that didn't work.
I read about getting Cheato algea & throwing it in the sump or even in the main tank as long as the lighting is good. All the life in the tank is doing ok except that the grouper is developing Hole in the head. Any suggestions?

 

[nigerbang]

Its the fish you have... and they are and will be too big for that tank...re home them

 

[spanko]

Yup, too much bio load for the amount of bio filtration you have would be my guess. How often do you clean the bio balls or whichevery media is in the Wet/Dry? How often and in what quantity are you doing water changes?
Hole in the head disease may be attributed to poor water quality, lack of proper nutrition and/or the use of activated carbon for prolonged periods. As mentioned above if you are not doing frequent regular water changes this could be the cause. Also ensure you are feeding a proper diet to the fish. Do some research about what they eat in the wild and try to emulate that diet to the best of your ability.

 

[pete159]

live rock looks great in saltwater tanks. i would start adding 10 lbs a week until you have enough to handle the bio
load.

 

[johnwfranklin]

80 ppm for fish only is no problem--
i just started over - but my old system had the following for 8 years--
135 gal tank, wet dry with 2 chambers full of bio balls, 1/4 hp chiller , in line heater , and 25 watt UV- no skimmer--
fish all got too big for the tank--
6" naso , 8" solhol tang, 8" puffer, 5" sailfin tang, and a 6" lion--the rest died off as over the years as everyone got too big for the tank-- ie- clown trigger, powder blue tang, and queen angle-- whent thru 3 queen angles-- they just would stop eating for no reason--
NITRATES WERE OVER 100 (OFF THE CHART) for years-- even with 20 gallon a week water changes--
i would consider starting over as i did-- my fish are now in 500 gal tank in a doctors office happy as can be--
sure hope this helps--

 

[johnwfranklin]

i always thought this formula worked good-- 1" to 1.5" of fish per 10 gallons of water for super healthy fish--
dont know if there is any stats behind this-- just always worked for me-- but like you-- my fish kept getting bigger and bigger and it was really hard to let them go to a new home---

 

[valp]

Thanks for all your help. As far as the diet, i feed them only frozen food such as formula 1 & 2, brine shrimp with spirunela (hope is spelled it right), and mysis. I always make sure that food is completely eaten. I just cut back on feeding every other day. I change 15 gallons of water every 2 weeks and rinse off the filter media (different sections) every water change.
Can anyone tell me if carbon or bioballs are even necessary if i get live rock & Cheato macro algea?

 

[al mc]

There is much debate about bioballs. Some love them, some think they might be 'nitrate factories'. The people they work for seem to have luck because they clean about 1/3 of them each week. Personally, I got rid of mine in favor of live rock rubble. My nitrates dropped when I added chaeto and rock rubble.
As others have noted, you are carrying a heavy bioload so you if you want to keep all the fish you will be forced to get a bigger tank, a bigger sump (or both) or be prepared to make larger water changes.

 

[pallan]

WEll Carbon is a debate. some use it all the time. (Me) some use it sparling (not a bad idea) and some never use it at all (also probabaly not a bad idea its just i like it to help polish water and get any chemical warfare between corals out of tank). Bioballs no need to have them once you have established bacteria colonies on a full supply of Live Rock in your tank. I would not take them all out at once until i had that Live Rock in the tank to offest the removal of the balls.. My opinions hope that helps

 

[nwdyr]

bIO BALLS ROCK! I had LR rubble and had nothing but problems

With the rubble I could not clean the bottom of the filter , now I just stick the hose in there and suck up all the waste. You only have to "shake out" half the bio-balls every 4-6months. I also run carbon every 4 weeks or so , I have a 75gal reef tank with about 70lb's of lR and about 6 small-Med size fish. The LR in the tank helps and it looks great! you should really consider adding LR to the tank..not the filter JMO. Good luck!

 

[hammerhed7]

I am also a fan of bioballs, I think the secret is to have good flow over them. I never clean mine, and my nitrates are not an issue.
Fish are not as sensitive to nitrate as inverts, so if the tank is not a reef the biggest problem with nitrates in algae growth. Of course ou want to keep it as close to zero as possible. It is not uncommon for public aquariums to have nitrate levels of 400+ in their fish only systems, with large healthy fish.

 

[don trinko]

To remove nitrates change part of the water. If your nitrates are 80 changing 50% of the water should make them 40. Changing 25% should make them 60. (untill they build up again) Most test kits it is hard to tell 80 from 40 and some test kits will read nitrites as part of the nitrates. Don T.

 

[fish4rudy]

Have you seen some of the live rock available now? It unreal and hands down "better-looking" then the artifical stuff.Plus the natural benefit to a tank is a no brainer. Water cahnges will lower you levels but will not keep them down as you are over stocked. I would seriously reconsider the live rock. Good luck

 

[locoyo386]

Originally Posted by johnwfranklin
http:///forum/post/2844560
i always thought this formula worked good-- 1" to 1.5" of fish per 10 gallons of water for super healthy fish--
dont know if there is any stats behind this-- just always worked for me-- but like you-- my fish kept getting bigger and bigger and it was really hard to let them go to a new home---
Hi there, I have a question for you;
If I where to use that type of formula to determine how many inches of fish I can have in fish tank. I am afraid that I could only have a pair Hippo Tangs in a 150 gallon tank, is this correct?
150 gallon fish tank => 150g/10g=15
inches of fish in the tank => 15*1.5"=22.5"
maximum tang size is 12" thus
number of tangs => 22.5"/12"=1.875 tangs (not even 2 Hippo Tangs)
Weird to think that I could only have 5 fish that can get to be a foot long in a 400 gallon size tank. Does any one have any opinions about this issue?

 

[valp]

Thanks again. I'll buy some LR this weekend along with some Cheato. Maybe that will do the trick.

 

[srfisher17]

Originally Posted by johnwfranklin
http:///forum/post/2844555
80 ppm for fish only is no problem--
--
Your comment seems to have gotten overlooked. But you are right, 80 ppm nitrate will not hurt fish at all. I think many folks simply don't believe this because of all the hype surrounding "proper" cycling. Reefs and inverts are nitrate-sensetive; but fish are not. I've kept fish at this level (and higher) for years without a problem. I don't even measure nitrates in my tanks that have no inverts; I do proper water changes and don't really care what the nitrates are.

 

[small triggers]

I agree, Ive had 50-110 in my tank for as long as i have had it up. Most fish dont mind higher numbers,, some though you have to be really careful as they are more sensitive, a moorish idol for example. Other than that FO or FOWLR its not much of an issue as long as you do your regular water changes.