Please Help! Lost everything

sstones

sstones

New Member
At the end of my rope, I have a 50 gallon acrylic reef tank, with a refugium. I had 2 hippo tangs, 1 queen angel, 2 clowns, and 2 mandarins. I had tons of zoos, mushroom and Xenia. My tank had been set up for 1 year with no problems. I moved and brought my tank with me. I didn't loose anything in the move, then two and half months later lost everything overnight. I immediately did a 50% water change to try and save my coral. When I checked the water before the change it only showed a little ammonia, not enough to kill everything I would think. I have done 3 more water changes since then and my water looks horrible, it has a green tint to it, and my coral all looks closed. I don't know what else to do, I tried putting starter fish in the tank and they died overnight. When I test my water now everything looks normal. Any suggestions? I am getting ready to sell everything and just get out of it.
 
dut

dut

Member
Only thing that jumps out at me is that the tank is overstocked. Most of the members here will tell you that a 50 isnt large enough for one Hippo, more less two. Mandarins ussually need about 100 lbs of LR to find enough pods to survive(im not sure how much LR you have) so with having two of those as well I would think they would clean pods quick in a 50. All of that then add a larger angel and a couple clowns and its alot of bioload in the tank to handle.I would think the ammonia had to come from the bioload, overfeedinig, or somthing that happened during the move that has been undetected for the last couple of months. Maybe there has been small ammonia spikes since then that youve been lucky enough to survive, some of the bacteria could have been killed off during the move which might have contributed to the tank not being able to handle the bioload anymore.
Did you test the water after your move? Are you sure that no small ammonia spike came from that? Someone will see this and be able to help much more then myself, more details would be good.
What is all of your parameters? (ph,ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,etc) Id tests everything you can test for.
How much LR?
 
sstones

sstones

New Member
Both of the hippo's were small, I only had them for about 4 months, same with the angel. I had about 75lbs of live rock. The levels on the tests were so minute they barely register on the test kits. The only one that showed was amonia, I also took a sample of water to a saltwater fish shop also for a 2nd opionion and they said that the amonia was not enough to kill the fish off. Could I have gotton a bacteria infection or something in the water?
 
sw65galma

sw65galma

Active Member
Even if they fish are small, you shouldn't be adding fish that fast...No more than 1 per month or 2.
Tangs and angels would be better after the tank is 6mons old...
Trust me...do things slow and you'll get better results..
I always say..the ocean wasn't built overnight...neither will your tank.
Were the fish exhibting any signs of stress? breathing heavy?
What else did you have in your tank...?
Any members of the sea cucumber family?
Also you can't say for sure how much amonia it takes to kill a fish...every fish is different..
I would put money on the amonia...If you can register it on a test kit...
It's TO MUCH!
 
dut

dut

Member
Originally Posted by sw65galma
I would put money on the amonia...If you can register it on a test kit...
It's TO MUCH!
I was going to say that myself, if any ammonia is showing at all, its enough to kill your fish.
 
fishrule

fishrule

Member
Originally Posted by Dut
Only thing that jumps out at me is that the tank is overstocked. Most of the members here will tell you that a 50 isnt large enough for one Hippo, more less two. Mandarins ussually need about 100 lbs of LR to find enough pods to survive(im not sure how much LR you have) so with having two of those as well I would think they would clean pods quick in a 50. All of that then add a larger angel and a couple clowns and its alot of bioload in the tank to handle.I would think the ammonia had to come from the bioload, overfeedinig, or somthing that happened during the move that has been undetected for the last couple of months. Maybe there has been small ammonia spikes since then that youve been lucky enough to survive, some of the bacteria could have been killed off during the move which might have contributed to the tank not being able to handle the bioload anymore.
Did you test the water after your move? Are you sure that no small ammonia spike came from that? Someone will see this and be able to help much more then myself, more details would be good.
What is all of your parameters? (ph,ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,etc) Id tests everything you can test for.
How much LR?
The part about Mandarins isn’t 100% True. I have a mandarin in my 25 gallon tank and he has become well grown and very FAT... He has been in my tank for 7 months and when I got him he was skinny and underfed. He eats all day off of the 25lbs of live rock I have in my tank, so 100lbs isn’t always needed. Just a good population of pods and well established rock, so it really depends on the situation of the tank.
I will agree that “2" Mandarins is a bad idea and with ammonia present in the tank, the pods could have been killed off with other creatures and bacteria in the move so the Mandarins could have been starving over the last 4 months.
Also, any amount of ammonia could have killed at least one fish and that could have spiked the levels enough to kill all of the other fish. If I had to guess, the Mandarins were most likely the first to die, if they were starving.
As far as the green in water, is you tank getting a lot of sunlight? Near a window? I had a problem with algae in my water, making it appear green that was caused by direct sunlight during the day.
 
dut

dut

Member
Originally Posted by Sharkboy13
correct me if im wrong but dont mandarins secrete a toxin when they die?
Ive never heard of that before
 
E

emeralcrab

Guest
What test kit for ammonia are you using? I was using the marine test kit that had all the test in it, the ones with the foil packets, it would show no ammonia. Was having trouble with my fish, couldn't get them healthy. Took a sample in to LFS, ammonia was high. He told me that he quit using that test as there had to be a lot of ammonia in it to register, I now use the liquid and vial, tested with it and the old one and WOW very high ammonia with the liquid test, and the packets showed NO ammonia. I threw that kit out and only use the vials with liquid now. I don't have the name of the packet test kit.
Also I then couldn't get my ammonia down, changing water right and left, amazing my fish survived all that they went through. Couldn't figure it out, LFS said I must be over feeding, blah blah blah, well smartened up and tested my well water. HIGH in ammonia....looking into what to do now. RO unit most likely. I was ready to throw in the towel. But at least now I know why my ammonia was so high.
 
sstones

sstones

New Member
I was using the liquid vial test kit. I bought another just to make sure it was correct. The fish were breathing hard before they died. I didn't have any members of the cuccumber family in the tank. Amazingly my 2 sand sifters are still alilve, I don't get it. I figured they would be the first to die. Why can't I get my tank to stabilize now? I have done numerous water changes and it won't stabilize, I am also have a hair algae outbreak.
 
sstones

sstones

New Member
Originally Posted by Beth
Did you use the same sand?
Yes, I siphoned through the sand but its the same.
 
stacyt

stacyt

Active Member
When you moved did you use the same water, or did you start with newly mixed water? Explain how you moved the tank, and also post all your readings, ammonia, PH, nitrates, nitrates etc.
Chances are when you moved the tank there was a slight amonia spike from stirring up the tank.
My suggestion would be to remove all the livestock, if you can find somewhere to place it for now, and than let the tank settle. Chances are you are going through another cycle.
The tank is overstocked, even if the fish are small.
 
S

saltfreak4

Guest
Originally Posted by FishRule
The part about Mandarins isn’t 100% True. I have a mandarin in my 25 gallon tank and he has become well grown and very FAT... He has been in my tank for 7 months and when I got him he was skinny and underfed. He eats all day off of the 25lbs of live rock I have in my tank, so 100lbs isn’t always needed. Just a good population of pods and well established rock, so it really depends on the situation of the tank.
I will agree that “2" Mandarins is a bad idea and with ammonia present in the tank, the pods could have been killed off with other creatures and bacteria in the move so the Mandarins could have been starving over the last 4 months.
Also, any amount of ammonia could have killed at least one fish and that could have spiked the levels enough to kill all of the other fish. If I had to guess, the Mandarins were most likely the first to die, if they were starving.
As far as the green in water, is you tank getting a lot of sunlight? Near a window? I had a problem with algae in my water, making it appear green that was caused by direct sunlight during the day.

Starvation takes time, the entire tank died in a day.
 
S

saltfreak4

Guest
Originally Posted by EmeralCrab
What test kit for ammonia are you using? I was using the marine test kit that had all the test in it, the ones with the foil packets, it would show no ammonia. Was having trouble with my fish, couldn't get them healthy. Took a sample in to LFS, ammonia was high. He told me that he quit using that test as there had to be a lot of ammonia in it to register, I now use the liquid and vial, tested with it and the old one and WOW very high ammonia with the liquid test, and the packets showed NO ammonia. I threw that kit out and only use the vials with liquid now. I don't have the name of the packet test kit.
Also I then couldn't get my ammonia down, changing water right and left, amazing my fish survived all that they went through. Couldn't figure it out, LFS said I must be over feeding, blah blah blah, well smartened up and tested my well water. HIGH in ammonia....looking into what to do now. RO unit most likely. I was ready to throw in the towel. But at least now I know why my ammonia was so high.
You weren't treating the water with amquel or another liquid that will remove ammonia???
 
S

saltfreak4

Guest
I agree about the spike. You have an established tank, so maybe the ammonia was very high and the tank cycled it before you realized how high it was??? I am shooting in the dark. I think you should stop with the water changes for a few days, until EVERY reading is zero. Not close to zero but zero. You will have to wait for the cycle to get finished. You said you moved. Are you using tap water? Maybe the tap water from one place to another is different, so when you did the change (or the move) it disrupted something. Don't do anymore water changes until the tank is stabalized. The water changes during an ammonia spike just increases the time for the cycle to finish. That's my best guess from over here.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top