Please help: My heart is broken!!!!!

C

civileng68

Guest
I know I may be overreacting but I am a little heartbroken this morning.
I came to work and my wife called me to tell me one of my false perc clowns was dead. I noticed last night he was acting funny but wasn't sure. Can someone please help me determine what is wrong and help me fix it.
I have FULLY cycled my tank. I've approached this whole thing with alot of patience, so that's not the issue.
I have a HOB standard filter
Aqua C Remora Protein Skimmer
130 watts of PC 50/50 light
20 gallon tank
Live Rock
Live Sand
I only have/had the 2 false per clowns, live rock, live sand and some cleanup crews who are doing very well, and an emerald crab, also doing very well.
Water temp: 78 degrees (per fish store advice to lower it from the 82 I had it at before I put the fish in, and yes, the temp was fully dropped before the fish were added.
Acclimation was 1 hour long, first using the floating to even temperature and then dripping in my saltwater with theirs.
I added them Saturday afternoon and now one is dead and my wife says the other one looks stressed.
Here are my latest test results
Amonia .25 (it goes between that and zero depending on when I add something)
Alkalinity 5
Specific gravity: 1.023
PH: 8.4 (I know this is a little high but didnt know how to get it down)
Phosphates: dont remember the exact results but they were perfect
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 20 (I know this is high but I've been working on it, could this be it? I was told they were not good but were not as bad as other problems.)
Someone please help me!
 

tankgirl1

Member
I am sorry for your loss. It is emotional to put forth so much effort to have this kind of outcome. I am not an expert, but I think it is your Nitrates.... They are way to high. All those levels are precisely where mine are (ammonia fluctuates between 0 and .25 as well), but my nitrates are always <5ppm. My clowns are doing well in that, same temperature too. I wish you luck with your fish, and again, sorry for your loss.
 
C

civileng68

Guest
Originally Posted by tankgirl1
I am sorry for your loss. It is emotional to put forth so much effort to have this kind of outcome. I am not an expert, but I think it is your Nitrates.... They are way to high. All those levels are precisely where mine are (ammonia fluctuates between 0 and .25 as well), but my nitrates are always <5ppm. My clowns are doing well in that, same temperature too. I wish you luck with your fish, and again, sorry for your loss.

I have to say, sometimes I wonder if I'm cut out for this. I hate seeing something suffer and it just breaks my heart to see that.
I will go at another water change today to hopefully solve this problem.
 
C

civileng68

Guest
Originally Posted by TeresaQ1
you might want to add a power head for circulation.

I do have one powerhead, sorry forgot to mention. I have a powerhead in the lower corner of my tank to circulate water.
 

dogstar

Active Member
Your clowns could have been sick when you got them...
IMO,
Amonia .25 (it goes between that and zero depending on when I add something)
Should be 0 but some test kits show around .25 because of other minerals in the water.
Alkalinity 5
Very low. can cause PH. to swing, Should be around 9 dkh
Specific gravity: 1.023
OK but NSW is 1.025
PH: 8.4 (I know this is a little high but didnt know how to get it down)
Color on some test kits hard to tell
Phosphates: dont remember the exact results but they were perfect
0 is perfect, should be easy to remember
Nitrites: 0
OK
Nitrates: 20 (I know this is high but I've been working on it, could this be it? I was told they were not good but were not as bad as other problems
0 is perfect, 20 is not deadly if acclimation was done slowly and LFS water was close to 20 as well. Fish can live in small amounts of trates but have to ajust to levels or they can cause shock. Check Calcium levels because it works hand in hand with Alk to help mantain PH.
Dont know what you do as far as water changes but with smaller tanks they should be done often with a quality salt mix to help maintain proper levels.
Sorry for your loss.
Cant know for sure why the fish died but IMO your water ( alk. ) is not good.
JMO
 

tankgirl1

Member
I have read that the tank will cycle continuously, I don't know if that is true. I had a problem a few weeks ago of really high nitrates and I was doing water changes regularly that were not helping -- I found it was the "sponge" used in my filtration. It was gross and when I cleaned it w/ fresh water my nitrates dropped almost instantly. After further assistance from this board, I found that you are supposed to do weekly or bi-weekly changeouts, but NOT at the same time as cleaning your filtration systems.
What kind of clean-up crew are you using? They help immensly IMO.
I felt defeated when my first fishies died too, and even gave it up for a little while because of my lack of understanding. Now I try to understand every aspect of my tank and my critters' health. Don't be discouraged. Just continue to go slowly. It will work out.
 

sw65galma

Active Member
I think your alkalinity is a little low. PH is Ok.
Make sure you don't have any temp swings during the day. Also when you do water changes, you have to make sure your salinity in the new water is dead on..
Also make sure you are not use a Swing arm to measure your salinity. You should be using a refractometer to measure salinity.
Here are the parameters for your fish.
Minimum Tank Size: 30 gallons
Care Level: Easy
Tank Conditions: 72-78°F; sg 1.020-1.025; pH 8.1-8.4; dKH 8-12
Max. Size In Aquarium: Up to 4"
Color Form: Orange, White
Temperament: Peaceful
Reef Compatible: Yes
Diet: Omnivore
Compatibility: View Chart
Origin: Tank Bred
Family: Pomacentridae
Tank Bred: Yes
 
C

civileng68

Guest
Ok, see this is what frustrates me. You guys are great by the way.
The book for the alkalinity test says to keep it between 2.5 and 5.5 for SALTWATER, yet you guys say to take it up higher. Im learning not to rely AT ALL on the manuals of the tests.
How do I raise my alkalinity?
I add a daily "VERY SMALL" dose (like 1/4 cap full) of calcium for my LR and Inverts.
Also for my salinity I use a Specific Gravity tester. So I should get a refractometer?
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
The tank is not fully cycled with any level of ammonia or nitrite. Contray to popular belief amoung new hobbyists, clownfish are not really the best choice for a newly established aquaria.
If you love this hobby, then you will go forward and learn from each failure. No one became a good hobbyist overnight. All of us made many mistakes along the way.
 

magickyl

Member
Your alk is a little low, and you need to get the nitrates under control. You may want to think about upgrading the tank to a 55 gallon. They are a little easier to keep the levels in check. Are you using an emperor 400 as the filter, or is it the filter that came with your tank when you bought it?
 
C

civileng68

Guest
Originally Posted by magickyl
Your alk is a little low, and you need to get the nitrates under control. You may want to think about upgrading the tank to a 55 gallon. They are a little easier to keep the levels in check. Are you using an emperor 400 as the filter, or is it the filter that came with your tank when you bought it?

It's a standard HOB filter. Should I upgrade to something else?
Beth: My amonia typically is at 0, but when I add stuff it sometimes jumps for a day or so. Also my nitrites are and have been at zero for a long time.
 

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Originally Posted by civileng68
It's a standard HOB filter. Should I upgrade to something else?
Beth: My amonia typically is at 0, but when I add stuff it sometimes jumps for a day or so. Also my nitrites are and have been at zero for a long time.

This would mean that it is not fully cycled. Ammonia should not spike at all just because you add something.
 

dogstar

Active Member
Alk can be measured in different ways, meg/L, .dkH, ppm KH
How does your kit read it.
5 meg/L is OK alk. a little high = around 12 dkH = 214 ppm KH
Dont add cal. unless you test for it first.
 

mhoup

Member
Civil,
You should look more at the fact that the fish were ill when you bought them and look at what is causing your Alk to jump, I think Beth mentioned that if your still getting spikes than your tank is not cycled yet, that is true. I still think you should consier the "ill" idea and also take an electrical tester and put the diodes in the tank, you may have electircal current running through your tank from a power head or something.
You may also want to consider a larger tank as magicky mentioned, he is the analagy, gross but gets the point across......small tank v large.....if you fart in a closet the smell is very strong, however if you fart in a gymnasium it's not nearly as bad. I know this is a gross analagy but i think you get the point, this is the difference, it is much easier to control and maintain a larger tank.
 
C

civileng68

Guest
Originally Posted by MHOUP
Civil,
You should look more at the fact that the fish were ill when you bought them and look at what is causing your Alk to jump, I think Beth mentioned that if your still getting spikes than your tank is not cycled yet, that is true. I still think you should consier the "ill" idea and also take an electrical tester and put the diodes in the tank, you may have electircal current running through your tank from a power head or something.
You may also want to consider a larger tank as magicky mentioned, he is the analagy, gross but gets the point across......small tank v large.....if you fart in a closet the smell is very strong, however if you fart in a gymnasium it's not nearly as bad. I know this is a gross analagy but i think you get the point, this is the difference, it is much easier to control and maintain a larger tank.
lol, I have to say that with my sense of humor, I can relate to that!
Anyways, how do I get an electrical tester that I can use for this? I've actually wondered about that myself, though I don't really know what made me think that.
 

mhoup

Member
You can get one anywhere really, it's just a basic acdc, amp, watt electrical tester (I appologize that I can't remember what there called...) you can get them at hardware store, lowe's or depot...you just need a basic one to test for elec. current in the water.
 
Top