please help with chem testing

[pohtr]

This is sort of a continuation of my previous thread about not being able to keep the chemicals balanced. I am trying desperately to do the chem tests. I just spent over an hour trying to do the magnesium & alkalinity.
the alk is at 2.5 I think
The calc is at 310 I think.
The magnesium test doesn't even go high enough. It goes to 1200 and I'm aiming for 1400. What's the deal? Haven't reached 1250 yet anyway, but still.
The color that is supposed to turn from green to yellow (alk) never does, it only turns clear. The powdered reagent always sticks to the side of the little container and I'm sure that skews the results, but I'm only supposed to mix gently. The pipette is very inaccurate for me, how on earth do you all do it!?
Furthermore, I've been dosing with every water addition and if anything my rates have worsened.
I am sooo frustrated, I could cry.
Any suggestions?

 

[pohtr]

Maybe my tests are outdated? How long do they stay accurate?

 

[jackri]

Why are you dosing with "every water addition"?
Your calcium and alk a a bit low but what size tank? what are you keeping?
A two part calcium can bring them up slowly and stable. I just don't like hearing the adding "every water addition" as that can cause more problems.

 

[pohtr]

Thanks for answering. I have a 90 gal & it evaporates about a gallon a day. The past week or so I've been adding the calc turbo boost, magnesium & alk stuff into the fresh water so it would be added back to the tank pre-dissolved. I'm adding aprox a tsp per 2 gal fresh water so I don't think I'm over doing it. I think I'm not adding enough. What's a 2 part calcium?
I have a clown, a flame angle, a flame cardinal and a lawnmower blenny & a blue green chromis. Lots of snails & hermits and one pistol shrimp. One little bit of my colt coral is still alive. It has stopped getting worse at least. I want to make the water right for the colt and for a bubble coral, eventually.
What is a typical dosing routine for a tank like mine? I don't even have a clue. Using the chem chart should work but it doesn't seem to make much difference when I add chems.
Do I really truly have to test daily? If so I should give up on corals and stick to fish only I think. I just loved the bubble I used to have and I wish I could have another. Maybe I'm being unrealistic?

 

[veni vidi vici]

What test kit are you using? And i wouldnt dose top off water either.If you mixing cal and alk together in fresh water some of it is probably falling out of solution before it even makes it into your tank.Before you start dosing you need to learn how to use and read your test results first then learn how to supplement anything your lacking and why you need it.
Good things happen slowly in this hobby and bad things happen fast.

 

[geoj]

Start by only dosing alk and check how it changes the alkalinity the day after.
Then when you know how to get the alk to move up try calcium.
If you add too much buffer or calcium it will fall out of solution and it will be like you did nothing or worse.
I add either calcium or alk buffer to my top-off water, but I know that I need one dose of each in a week and I know how much fresh water, I will need to keep salinity in line. So you can add some of the top-off water when you dose, just it should not be done all on the same day.
Don’t dose alk and calcium the same day if you don’t need too.

 

[pohtr]

I like the idea of dealing with one chem at a time, alk. Maybe I can handle the testing better with just one. I am easily overwhelmed with chemistry & following complicated directions is very difficult for me. So, tonight I will add some baking soda, and then test tomorrow. The alkalinity test is probably the least complicated but it is the one where the color did not change to yellow but went clear.
The alk test kit is sea chem.
When we are talking about alkalinity we are not talking about pH, right? So then why does baking soda raise the alkalinity and not the pH? Or does it? What is the alkalinity anyway if it is not the same as high (non acidic) pH?

 

[geoj]

Alkalinity is the total carbonate hardness. Or a reading of KH or dKH (degrees carbonate hardness). This is many different minerals that are alkaline. This does not tell you how acidic or alkaline water is because it does not take into account the acidic things that neutralize the alkaline minerals. PH does tell you how acidic or alkaline the water is, but does not let you know why it is acidic or alkaline.
I have not used baking soda in a long time so I would not be much help on its use.
I do think it needs to be dripped in to prevent changing the pH to fast…

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by GeoJ
http:///forum/post/2963813
I do think it needs to be dripped in to prevent changing the pH to fast…
If you are using un-baked soda then the effect on your pH will be minimal.Baked has had all the Co2 removed and will raise pH ,it should only be used in a tank that is low in pH.I have raised alk 1.5 meq/l all in one dose with no ill effects with un-baked.

 

[pohtr]

I have decided that my indicator must be no good. It only just barely turns the water the teeniest hint of blue and then it gets sort of clear with the teeniest hint of yellow. I will now have to search out replacements chems, including those little cotton balls that come with one of the other test kits. making them is definitely an acquired skill at which I lack talent.
Meanwhile in my search for understanding:

...This is many different minerals that are alkaline. This does not tell you how acidic or alkaline water is because it does not take into account the acidic things that neutralize the alkaline minerals. PH does tell you how acidic or alkaline the water is, but does not let you know why it is acidic or alkaline.
Could you explain that more? I don't get it. Alkalinity is different from alkaline? or is it like total alkalinity as in pool chemicals? (not that I understand pool chemicals either..) What is carbonate hardness? What does the "hardness" mean?
What do you use to raise your alkalinity? I also have some Kent superbuffer-dKH I can use.
Veni- Where do you get baked baking soda? or do you bake it yourself? ......I once tried to boil linseed oil myself to create boiled linseed oil, so anything is possible here..(.for those of you who don't know, that is NOT how you get boiled linseed oil & it makes lots of smoke & mess).
Thank you for your help. We really need a chemistry forum, don't you think?

 

[geoj]

When we use the term pH we are talking about the amount of hydrogen ions, or whether it is acidic, neutral, or basic from 0-14 acidic less than 7 basic more than 7. Older book will say alkalinity instead of basic and this is how things confusing.
The term Alkalinity is used to mean different things depending on how it is defined (It can mean basic or carbonate hardness). When we use Alk we mean the total amount of carbonate hardness. Carbonate hardness is a old term and I should say something like “The buffering substances like Carbonate, Bicarbonate, borate, hydroxide, silicate, and phosphate.” But who has the time for all that. These minerals resist the change in pH. This is why we commonly call them buffers. The proportions and amounts of these minerals affect the pH. In simple terms if you don’t have enough alkaline minerals in the correct proportions meaning the Alk is low, the pH will be low.
This does not mean the pH will be where you want it to be because there are acids that also affect pH. Mainly carbonic acid (waste decomposition) and CO2 (respiration).
Now my brain hurts...

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by pohtr
http:///forum/post/2965217
Veni- Where do you get baked baking soda? or do you bake it yourself? ......I once tried to boil linseed oil myself to create boiled linseed oil, so anything is possible here..(.for those of you who don't know, that is NOT how you get boiled linseed oil & it makes lots of smoke & mess).
Thank you for your help. We really need a chemistry forum, don't you think?
Arm &Hammer spread out on baking sheet in oven at 400Deg for 1 hour,
And yes we need a chemistry forum and i nominate GeoJ and Bang Guy to monitor it lol.

 

[pohtr]

Originally Posted by GeoJ
http:///forum/post/2965577
When we use the term pH we are talking about the amount of hydrogen ions, or whether it is acidic, neutral, or basic from 0-14 acidic less than 7 basic more than 7. Older book will say alkalinity instead of basic and this is how things confusing.
The term Alkalinity is used to mean different things depending on how it is defined (It can mean basic or carbonate hardness). When we use Alk we mean the total amount of carbonate hardness. Carbonate hardness is a old term and I should say something like “The buffering substances like Carbonate, Bicarbonate, borate, hydroxide, silicate, and phosphate.” But who has the time for all that. These minerals resist the change in pH. This is why we commonly call them buffers. The proportions and amounts of these minerals affect the pH. In simple terms if you don’t have enough alkaline minerals in the correct proportions meaning the Alk is low, the pH will be low.
This does not mean the pH will be where you want it to be because there are acids that also affect pH. Mainly carbonic acid (waste decomposition) and CO2 (respiration).
Now my brain hurts...
You know, the second day when I reread that (for the 10th time) it actually made sense!
So, can the total alk be too high? Too much buffering? Or would it just be that if the total alk is raised by baking soda then the pH would also be raised and eventually it would be too high? Too basic?
Also, why is total alk important ( for corals) if the pH is fine?

 

[geoj]

There is maximum amount of minerals that will stay dissolved in the water. So the total alk can be too high. If you keep adding buffer the chemistry will get all wacky and you will have trouble keeping calcium up. There is not normally too much threat to most live stalk if you keep the salinity and pH correct. Some of the supplements will raise the salinity more than others and I have been surprised at times, so keep watch on it. You want to test for alkalinity (carbonate hardness) because it becomes depleted as it reacts with acids. There is a buffer (extra alkaline minerals) as they are depleted nothing happens to the pH and once lost to reacting with acids the pH starts to drop. My alk will go from 10 dKH down to 8 dKH with no change in pH.
The higher alk is important for corals because magnesium, strontium, calcium, and carbonates are the building blocks of coral skeletons. With higher amounts of them, we get good coral growth for longer. So adding buffer replaces the (extra alkaline minerals) that are lost to coral growth, reactions with acids, and maintains pH.
Do you have to add buffer? Not if water changes keeps up with the need to replace…
A good book is Marine Chemistry by CR Brightwell

 

[pohtr]

Finally my total alk is up to 4.0. Tomorrow is water change day so I'll test probably the following day. I also managed to find some Mrs. Wage's pickling lime at one of those country stores that has everything.
Meanwhile here's another question. The new batch of salt water that I have ready to add....if I tested it for total alk, calc, magn, etc., shouldn't it have all the right parameters?