please help with nitrates

[cristine]

I've been trying to reduce my nitrates for months now. They hover from 80-160 regardless of water changes, and regular maintenence. I have a 60 gallon FOWLR. I do a 12 galloin water change every two weeks. When I do this I rinse all filter media, carbon, replace filter sock with a clean one, use a turkey baster to clean off rocks and in crevices, etc... I use only RO water and salt water purchased from my local fish store. After some research on this board, I removed the sponge from my hang on back filter and added a softball size amount of cheato. It's only been a week since I added the cheato and removed the sponge. Yesterday was my most recent water change. This time I did 15 gallons and took on the monster job of cleaning out my sump and everthing in it. My tank is about 15 months old and I've never cleaned it. I was told that I could do that because there would be enough of the good bacteria and critters in the live rock and sand, so I would not be losing anything there. I hope I didn't screw up there. Here is a run down on my tank:
about 50 lbs live rock (none in the sump)
protein skimmer
sock filter
carbon (changed once a month-rinsed every water change)
Livestock:
yellow tang
emperor angle
flame angel
2 small fire fish
small Naso tang
lg. engineer goby (he just keeps growing!)
lg. tomato clown
2 anemones (1 lg. condi and one small purple tip)
1 lg. feather duster
2 cleaner shrimp
1 fire shrimp
clean up crew of about 10 hermit crabs, several snails, 1 emerald crab (I think I need a much bigger clean up crew)
I think I've got it all. Because I didn't get much a change in Nitrate (went down very slightly with the last water change) I'm going to cut back on feeding. Currently I feed every day usually 2 cubes of either shrimp or formula 1 or 2, along with some small pellets (this food is shared with my 12 gallon reef tank). There are only two conclusions I able to reach at this point. One, I'm over feeding, but if thats the case, why didn't my nitrates go down with the last water change? Two-My tank is overcrowded. Would a larger clean up crew help with that? At least right now everything is thriving in the tank. But the nitrates really bother me. Any thoughts or input would be great. Thanks
Cris

 

[fish1031]

wow thats really high are you sure that's right i've never even heard 160ppm!!
I hate when I hear this and you probably will too but I think you a little overstocked.

 

[baloo6969]

test your water from the LFS...or your topoff water.

 

[thud]

If you haven't already you should look into a deep sand bed, that will take care of your nitrates.

 

[azfishgal]

IMO you are WAY over stocked. And you are going to hear it from others but that tank is to small for the Yellow Tang and especially the Emperor (who will get close to 15") and the Naso Tang (can get up to 18"). You asked for opinions so here it is: Take the tangs and the Emperor back to the lfs you are not helping your tank or the fish by having them. I think that one step alone is going to help. I'm not flaming you at all, because you honestly might not know. Now it's up to you on what you decide to do.

 

[cristine]

wow, thanks for the quick responses. Here's more info:
Yes, it does fluctuate between 80-160 ppm-the test tube is a lovely shade of red. I have also tested the local fish store water-everything tests ok. I don't have a deep sand bed, but should I go that route-do I just pile new sand on top of the old or do I need to put some of the old on top of the new? Or, gradually create a deep sand bed by either doing small area's of the tank at a time or adding small amounts of new sand in layers over the exsisting sand bed?
Finally, azfishgal-I appreciate your comments very much and take no offense. I often make the mistake of listening to my lfs when I consider adding to my tank. I will not add anything else (except maybe a little more cleaning crew). Right now the Naso and Yellow tangs are about three inches long each. My Tomato clown is bigger than they are. Can I keep them a while longer or are they unhappy being in a small tank? What size tank is good for these fish?
Here's the good news-I did another Nitrate test using a new test kit (same manufacturer-Aquarium Pharaceuticals) and it shows my Nitrates to be between 40-80ppm. Better, but not great. I'm not impressed with this brand of tests kits. I've had results vary before as well. I'll look into getting a Salifert test kit.
Thanks everyone!

 

[azfishgal]

Originally Posted by cristine
Right now the Naso and Yellow tangs are about three inches long each. My Tomato clown is bigger than they are. Can I keep them a while longer or are they unhappy being in a small tank? What size tank is good for these fish?
If it were me I would still take back the tangs and the Emperor. Because even if they stay small your tank is still over crowded. As far as what's good for tangs it's usually recommended that you have a 6' tank, that's 125 gallons. The reason? Tangs are BIG swimmers and need the room. The Emperor needs the larger tank simply for his size. Now, I have seen people have a Yellow Tang in a 75 gallon, I'm not advocating it, but I have seen it done. As far as the Naso, IMO it will get to big for even my tank and I have a 125 gallon tank. So unless you plan on upgrading any time soon, I would take the tangs and Emperor back. It's your call though, you have to decide what's best for you. I disagree if you keep them, but I'm not going to bash you for it.

 

[cristine]

Thanks azfishgal. I hate to give up those fish, but I'll certainly consider your points. I'm leaning towards returning them, but I'll have to convince my husband.
As for the Nitrates-I decided to take a water sample into my lfs to have them check it. They also use Aquarium Pharm. test kits. My Nitrate reading was 0. I've had this problem in the past with my Nitrate test kits. I'm done with Aquarium Pharm. When I think back to all the extra maintenence I've done trying to bring down those Nitrates! For the heck of it, I asked the fish store to test their own water, then I brought some home to test myself. Their water was a 0 also according to their test. When I tested it at home with my kit it was about 5. Frustating to say the least. At least I can be somewhat confident in the fact that my Nitrates are not out of control. I'll be purchasing a new kit before my next water change.

 

[azfishgal]

Salifert test are said to be the best out there, I've actually bought some myself and should get it any day. I use Aquarium Pharm. for my freshwater tank, but NOT my reef tank, it's just to general IMO. I've been using RedSea and it's ok, but I think the Salifert will be more accurate.

 

[briand7878]

Did you make sure you shook your nitrate bottle for thirty seconds before adding it to the water? If you forgot to shake your bottle 2 then all your tests will be shot.
Not that it has any bearing on things but i was at the lfs today and they got 2 yellow tangs that were at least 10 inches tall and a foot long. They were amazing. i had never actually seen one that big.

 

[azfishgal]

Originally Posted by BRIAND7878
Not that it has any bearing on things but i was at the lfs today and they got 2 yellow tangs that were at least 10 inches tall and a foot long. They were amazing. i had never actually seen one that big.
I saw something very similar at a ***** (I know....but this store actually knows how to treat their fish.). They had three Yellow Tangs that were at least 7" long, they were huge. I too have never seen them that big. They were VERY pretty.

 

[cristine]

Hi Briand7878,
Yes, I did shake the #2 bottle for thirty seconds. I'm actually quite anal about following the directions to the letter when I test. Drives me nuts when the lfs don't. Now, off to order my Salifert!