Please help with sand qs for new set up

[susan]

I've been reading various comments on reef tank setups and I'm wondering...
Can I add 1/4 live sand with 3/4 playground sand? I never thought of that... If so, what sizes grain would you use and how would you set it up for a future 55gal reef tank?
Are there any particular brands I should stick with for live sand?
Also, would I need a plenum underneath?
An extra q. For cleaning up my tank before converting to sw, why is it good to fill and circulate reverse osmosis water and what exactly is it? Where do I get it?
Thanks for your answers!

 

[diatom]

Susan~
Yes you can easily do that.
Southdown is the best cheap sand dry (non-living)if it's available in your area.
Just put the LS on top of the dry sand.
Also it's best if you can get some LS from a LFS or ordered online or a cup or two from all your reefer friends is really cheap and the best option becuase of all the diversity. The stuff sold in bads in since but doesn't have and critters (like pods and worms)in it that a real DSB needs.

 

[ramone]

I am new to this hobby and you guys know better than me but, all of the books I have read and all of the questions that I have asked at my LFS advise against using play-ground sand. A quote from The New Marine Aquarium, by Michael Paletta. "Sandbox or play sand has no place in a marine aquarium. It is composed of silica, which will feed unsightly brown diatom-film growth and will tend to compact and form anaerobic areas, leading to the production of TOXIC HYDROGEN SULFIDE GAS." So why all of the topics about buying Southdown sand at Home Depot? What is Southdown sand anyways? <img src="graemlins//confused2.gif" border="0" alt="[confused2]" />

 

[diatom]

Ramone~
Southdown is argonite sand and is the same stuff packaged for caribsea. Only it's 3 buck for 50 pounds rather then 30 bucks for 30. Also the grain size of southdown is a very good composition for the sand bed critters that we keep.
Silca sand is fine to use in an aquarium...it does not contrary to popular opinion disolve and fuel diatoms in your tank.
If the Ph of your water is such that it can disolve silca sand, diatoms are the least of your problems.
Hydrogen sulfide is defintially produced in all properly functioning DSB's but not to worry...it's not produced in signigant enough quantities to harm your livestick. Sure does stink if you get into it though.

 

[captained]

Diatom gave same advice I would re: the sand. You will want to thoroughly rinse the play sand to get the "dust out" or it will takes weeks for your system to filter it out. Don't rinse the LS.
Reverse Osmosis (De-ionized) water (often referred to as RO or RODI water) is a process for filtering water. You really can't, in most cases, use tap water- the chemicals and contaminants will kill much of the life a saltwater tank needs to survive. You can buy RODI water, but in the long run it will be cheaper (and more convenient) to buy a RODI system and "make" your own. You can search for RODI on this BB and find lots of suggetions on different models.
As far as a plenum, the question here is what type of filtration system do you want? There is no right answer to this. Probably the most popular in the hobby right now is a 4" DSB (deep sand bed) with ~1 pound of Live Rock per gallon, and a protein skimmer. The addition of a refugium with little critters (amphipods, copepods, and macro algaes) is also popular with reefers.
Sounds like you're off to a good start on this hobby, er, I mean vocation!

 

[blackdog]

Susan--
I see that you're from NH. Hopefully you'll be able to find Southdown sand at a nearby Home Depot. I'm from the North Shore in MA, and I was able to find some at the HD in Salem. However, many of them are sold out and won't be getting more until Spring.
I second the recommendatino to wash the sand. I put mine in a big Rubbermaid bin and poured in water, sloshed it around, then scooped the water back out. It still made a giant cloudy mess. If I were doing it again, I'd repeat the rinse at least once. However, some people say the really fine silt is important b/c bacteria builds up easily on the fine grain. Not sure about that, but I am sure it creates huge dust clouds in the tank.
Feel free to email me blackdoggraphics@mediaone.net if you want to chat. I don't have any recommendations for a good LFS -- all have been disappointing so far.
--Dave

 

[blackdog]

BTW, I started my 55 gal a 10 days ago. Put in 90 lbs Southdown, 30 lbs live sand, 70 lbs live rock. Seemed like a ton of sand at the time, but I wish I had put in about 20 more lbs of Southdown.
The live sand is a much larger grain. You pour it on top of the bed of Southdown. After 10 days I can see it's starting to get mixed together a little by the worms and such.

 

[susan]

Thanks for your input!! More qs on them though.
OK, I was told by a few pet stores to stick with only a one inch sand bed because any deeper causes a mess that's not easily cleaned. Also, to use a 250 gal wet/dry filter/protien skimmer, my current whisper III filter, and two pulsating power heads. I agreee with the 4-6 in deep sand bed. I don't think i'll need a plenum with this set up; besides, the pet stores say no one really does that anymore. What do you think of all this?
I'm thinking of putting 1/4 (30lbs) LS over 3/4 (110lbs)playground sand in my 55gal tank. How deep will this make my bed? And is this enough for a reef tank of this size?
As far as starting the tank with deionised water:
What about using tap water, adding AmeQuel to it. Doesn't that make it safe?
Thanks for all your input!

 

[broomer5]

Susan,
Most lfs or pet stores that do not specialize in reef tanks and corals most likely will not tell you much about using a DSB. Not sure where and who you talked to - but that has been my experience anyway.
Using a 250 gallon rated wet/dry with you Whisper is extreme overkill IMO. Sounds like a lfs trying to make a sale.
DSB as you are planning with live rock and protein skimmer - should be sufficient biofiltration for most average stocked reef tanks.
DSB depth - 55 gallon tank: 48"L x 13"W
If you use 30lbs LS and 110lbs playsand - I would estimate that will give you about 4" sandbed depth.
If you want to increase that to 6" depth - I'd plan on using around 175 - 200 lbs total.
All depends on the sand, grain size and pounds per cubic foot of the sand.
To be safe - I'd suggest getting at least three 50lbs bags of playsand ( four even better - it's cheap ) and your 30lbs LS to start your tank with.
If your tap water does not contain nitrates, phosphates or other contaminents, you can certainly use it after treating with dechlorinator like Amquel.
If your tap water tests positive for anything undesirable - use RO/DI or distilled. Up to you.
Are you planning to mix your saltwater Rubbermaid containers, or mix it in the tank ??
Couple tips we can share with you depending on what you're going to do.
Wish you luck,

 

[joejubee]

I'm in the middle of setting up my 55gal hex tank into a reef tank, and I've been scouring this board for info, and this thread has been by far the most informative.
Thanks.
It's SO hard to figure out to do, because there seems to be 100 ways of doing the same thing...
I'm planning on my tank to be layed out like this:
55 gallon hexagon.
BakPak2 skimmer
Fluval 302 canister filter
(3) Powerheads
Emperor Bio wheel
3/4 Southdown with 1/4 LS
60 Pounds of LR
Not too sure about using the UGF as a plenum...
If my setup has any glaring mistakes, hopefully someone will lemme know...
THANKS SWF!!!!

 

[benj420]

joejubee, No glaring mistakes. You can use a ugf as a plenum, but only if it's strong enough to hold the weight of the sand and rock that will be sitting on top of it. Most UGF's are made for freshwater and don't usually have 150+ pounds sitting on it. Also, you will probably want to cover the top with a layer of nylon window screen, or the sand will end up filling it up and rendering it useless. You can also make your own plenum with egg crate, pvc pipe and nylon screen.
Other things to consider with a hex tank is that there is less surface area for the sand bed, less surface area for gas exchange on the surface, and harder to light effectively. Many people still use them however, so good luck.

 

[joejubee]

TOTALLY hadn't thought of the reduced surface area of the hex...
Any sugeestions for maximizing gas exchange? A power head right at the surface? Because of the smaller surface area, are there any other things I should be prepared for?
Thanks man,
JOe

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by Diatom
Southdown is argonite sand and is the same stuff packaged for caribsea. Only it's 3 buck for 50 pounds rather then 30 bucks for 30. Also the grain size of southdown is a very good composition for the sand bed critters that we keep.
Silca sand is fine to use in an aquarium...it does not contrary to popular opinion disolve and fuel diatoms in your tank.

Diatom - I agree with everything you said here... But remember, the question about playground sand.... Playground sand is NOT silica sand... A few brands are suitable for S/W aquariums (Southdown, Yardright) The rest are NOT. Silica sand create silica dust which is hazardous, it is not used for playground sand. The grain size is also too large for a decent sandbed. Playground sand (exceptions noted) will probably contain Silicates and many other contaminates that are kid safe, but not reef safe.
Guy

 

[bang guy]

Originally posted by joejubee
TOTALLY hadn't thought of the reduced surface area of the hex...
Any sugeestions for maximizing gas exchange? A power head right at the surface? Because of the smaller surface area, are there any other things I should be prepared for?
Thanks man,
JOe
Hey Joe... IMO the BakPak is an excellent skimmer and if you run it 24/7 it will provide all the gas exchange you need.
OTOH - Powerheads for extra circulation can only help.
Guy