Please Help!!!

[reefrunner]

I bought some new corals and they have all died! They didn't even last over night!! Hammer coral...frogspawn...torch coral... all dead.
I don't have all the testing stuff to test everything, but I do have the basics covered. Here are the specifics....
37g cube
250 14k MH
Seaclone 100 skimmer
Cascade 700 filter
Amonia...0
Nitrites...0
Nitrates...10
PH...8.4
Calcium...380
Salinity...1.023
Everything seems to be in check.... but things are dying!
I"ve acclimated each thing I've tried to add for at least two hours, and I don't know what could be wrong... Please Help!! I need advice!!!

 

[mopar9012]

what do the corals look like?
how old is the tank?
Have you put any meds in the tank before?

 

[andreyv]

If you got them from the tank with “weaker” light you would have to
acclimate them to your 250 MH over the week or two.
Also you salt should be 1.025-1.026. Your CA is a little on a low side
but 380 should not be the cause for overnight death.
What makes you thing that they are dead?

 

[reefrunner]

Originally Posted by AndreyV
If you got them from the tank with “weaker” light you would have to
acclimate them to your 250 MH over the week or two.
Also you salt should be 1.025-1.026. Your CA is a little on a low side
but 380 should not be the cause for overnight death.
What makes you thing that they are dead?
They are all brown, and falling apart. They also have long slimy strands coming from them. Trust me... they are dead. I moved them to my quarentine tank just do they wouldnt affect the other stuff in the tank.
The tank is about 6 months old, and for the most part, is doing very well. I have other things in the tank that have been fine for a while now. I just don't get why everything new that I try to add is dying. Is there something specific that I should be testing for?

 

[bizkitpug]

I recently bought a bunch of corals. Most things took a few days to open but my star polyps took almost 3 weeks for anything to have life. They are probably adjusting. I wouldn't worry, I thought the same thing and everything in my tank is good.

 

[saltn00b]

what test kits are you using? how old are they?
what are you using for salinity / sg? a swingarm hydrometer or a refractometer?
if you are using a hydro, and you are getting a false high reading of 1.023 then you could be dangerously low. how old is the tank? how much LR do you have in it? and what do you normally feed the tank? you need to get a reading on your phosphates because that can do it corals quickly.
i also agree with the light acclimation / shock theory. how high in the tank are they?
low calcium , but it wont kill them.

 

[reefrunner]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
what test kits are you using? how old are they?
what are you using for salinity / sg? a swingarm hydrometer or a refractometer?
if you are using a hydro, and you are getting a false high reading of 1.023 then you could be dangerously low. how old is the tank? how much LR do you have in it? and what do you normally feed the tank? you need to get a reading on your phosphates because that can do it corals quickly.
i also agree with the light acclimation / shock theory. how high in the tank are they?
low calcium , but it wont kill them.
I forget the name of the test kit I use, but I assume it's decent. I took a water sample to my lfs and they said the water quality was good. I use a swingarm hydrometer.
The tank is about 6 months old, and I have about 45-50 lbs of live rock. I alternate feeding 1 cube of mysis shrimp, and flake every day.
When I added the corals, they were about mid way down in the tank.
What should my temp be? We recently had a spell of warm weather and my temp spiked to about 88 degrees. I don't have a chiller, so I cut back the time that my mh is on. I went from 10 hrs a day to 3 hrs in the am, and 3hrs in the pm. I'm back down to about 82 now.

 

[saltn00b]

tanks running over 85 degrees can start to be dangerous for fish and corals. you want to be in the range of 77 - 82. if your tank can spike that highly, then you need to consider purchasing a chiller. an unfortunate cost when running MHs. if you are feeding frozen cubes every other day for six months, then you could have a phosphate situation on your hands. cubes are known for containing excess phosphates. phosphates basically dont harm anything except corals, but you need to test for them to be sure.
if you are keeping corals, you need to be exact with your salinity. swingarms are simply not going to cut it. they are wholly inaccurate, and give false readings, even when properly cleaned and maintained with distlled white vinegar. you need to invest in a refractometer. like i said before, your tank could be at 1.020 and you are reading 1.023 for example, which could kill all of your inverts pretty quickly.

 

[reefrunner]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
tanks running over 85 degrees can start to be dangerous for fish and corals. you want to be in the range of 77 - 82. if your tank can spike that highly, then you need to consider purchasing a chiller. an unfortunate cost when running MHs. if you are feeding frozen cubes every other day for six months, then you could have a phosphate situation on your hands. cubes are known for containing excess phosphates. phosphates basically dont harm anything except corals, but you need to test for them to be sure.
if you are keeping corals, you need to be exact with your salinity. swingarms are simply not going to cut it. they are wholly inaccurate, and give false readings, even when properly cleaned and maintained with distlled white vinegar. you need to invest in a refractometer. like i said before, your tank could be at 1.020 and you are reading 1.023 for example, which could kill all of your inverts pretty quickly.
So what exactly are phosphates?

 

[saltn00b]

chemical compound PO4 , 1 part phosphorous 4 parts oxygen. a nutrient that is an export product from and organisms life cycle. decaying food, excrement, break down and release phosphates. Usually, calcerous materials in fishtanks such as LR, LS, coral skeletons , etc, absorb this chemical like a sponge. However after X amount of time, the calcerous materials will have absorbed as much it can and then phosphates will begin to build up in the water column. Often explaining an older fishkeeping phenomenon called 'old tank syndrome' where seemingly perfect running mature tanks crash out of nowhere. Nowadays we are aware of the situation. Phosphates are easily tested for. PO4 that is above 1.0 starts to become problematic for corals, while much much more concentrations can possibly cause harm to fish. Leather Corals are the first to succumb to PO4 poisoning IME. Often times, a sign of increasing PO4 is an increase unwanted macro algaes such as Cyanobacteria and Hair Algae. But this is not always the case. some tricks to lower you PO4 would be replacing or adding LR or LS. but always be careful that the new material is properly cared for, and cycled. I personally run a Pho-Ban Reactor which for about 50 bucks + Media + Mini pump will have you up and running, continuously removing Phosphates from the water column. there are some things that you need to know about running one, but you can find them in the packaging, and other threads.

 

[robdog696]

Wow, Saltnoob! That info is very helpful to me. I have been having a problem just as you described here with my corals. I also feed frozen cubes. Thanks SO much for the info. Hope it helped you as well reefrunner!

 

[reefrunner]

Update...... I went and bouhgt a Phosphate test kit at lfs on my lunchbreak. Went home and did a test....Between 1.5 and 2.0. Is that high enough to kill corals that fast? Doesn't seem like it would be....but I don't know why else they would all be dying?!

 

[thud]

Originally Posted by reefrunner
Update...... I went and bouhgt a Phosphate test kit at lfs on my lunchbreak. Went home and did a test....Between 1.5 and 2.0. Is that high enough to kill corals that fast? Doesn't seem like it would be....but I don't know why else they would all be dying?!

That's not high for phosphates. My test kit says that a safe amount is > 3.0
Could these corals be in shock? They may not be dead. I wouldn't toss them yet. They aren't exactly holding up a sign "I'm DEAD"

 

[reefrunner]

Originally Posted by thud
That's not high for phosphates. My test kit says that a safe amount is > 3.0
Could these corals be in shock? They may not be dead. I wouldn't toss them yet. They aren't exactly holding up a sign "I'm DEAD"
Oh.....they are indeed dead. No doubt about it. Sometimes you just know.

 

[saltn00b]

1.5 to 2.0 is actually very high for corals. the corals you were trying are in the euphyllia family, the torches, frogspawns etc. all almost the same coral. they often referred to as being "bullet proof" corals, in that they are hard to kill, and only will die if shocked or in very bad water. i was showing signs of death and shrunkenness and stunted growth when my PO4 was over 1.0. 1.5 to 2.0 is VERY high for corals! remember, it is a different chemical and is a totally different "animal" then say nitrate where you would start getting nervous at say 25 ppms. dont compare the different tests, PO4 is measured on a more minute scale.
my advice would be to procure your self a nice chunk of cured LR (not from someones tank because it could already have absorbed PO4) and drop it in the tank. adding a few rocks can drop you down dramatically as that rock absorbs right out of your water column.
glad i could help you guys, good luck!

 

[reefrunner]

Are there any solutions that would be cheaper than adding more lr? I've already lost enough $ on all these dead corals. Besides....my tank already has plenty of lr..... bout 50lbs in 37gal.

 

[andreyv]

Originally Posted by reefrunner
Are there any solutions that would be cheaper than adding more lr? I've already lost enough $ on all these dead corals. Besides....my tank already has plenty of lr..... bout 50lbs in 37gal.
Phosban reactor
Phosguard in media bag in medium flow area
cheto
plus water changes

 

[reefrunner]

Originally Posted by AndreyV
Phosban reactor
Phosguard in media bag in medium flow area
cheto
plus water changes
Can I put cheto in the main tank without it taking over? I know most people put it in the refugum, but I don't have one.
What is phosgaurd, and how does that work?

 

[saltn00b]

cheato and macro algaes do take these nutrients out of the system, but slowly, and you will need a lot to make a difference. PhosBan Reactor is the best long term solution. you can be up and running for about 70 bucks.