*****please Read****

[windlasher]

Originally Posted by danf1973
http:///forum/post/3082031
i'm pretty sure it was ick, there were no classic signs of salt looking specs but like shedding that starts and kills in 48hrs, ever fish dies that goes in my tank. I have treated all fish/tank as well with bacteria and fungial. None have been able to keep the fish alive or treat the tank? The corals inverts all are fine it targets fish only?
where are you located. maybe someone could pop by to take a look. I'd do it. but you have to be in the twin cities...

 

[danf1973]

Originally Posted by windlasher
http:///forum/post/3082084
where are you located. maybe someone could pop by to take a look. I'd do it. but you have to be in the twin cities...
Tampa florida area, i mean this is getting old you know? Not a marine place around can find anything else to suggest for me to do.

 

[arvins]

Question for you, are there currently any fish in the tank now??
If not (and yes this sounds like no fun) what about starting over as it was. Empty all the water from the tank, clean the rocks, replace the sand and refill the tank with new saltwater. Probably going to get a small cycle or at least a few spikes but if the tank is empty it might be worth it to just empty it out and start all over. I know I said it wouldn't be any fun

 

[danf1973]

Originally Posted by Arvins
http:///forum/post/3082100
Question for you, are there currently any fish in the tank now??
If not (and yes this sounds like no fun) what about starting over as it was. Empty all the water from the tank, clean the rocks, replace the sand and refill the tank with new saltwater. Probably going to get a small cycle or at least a few spikes but if the tank is empty it might be worth it to just empty it out and start all over. I know I said it wouldn't be any fun

What about the few coral? Both have attached themselves to live rock? could i do a freshwater dip? what about the sand? remove/replace? filters just clean and like you said start over?

 

[hlcroghan]

With all the problems you have been having, I would strongly suggest that you let your tank sit fishless for 6 weeks to 2 months. This may take longer than you want and is riskier because of how resistant some parasites are but is the cheapest way to go. Corals and Inverts will be fine. Any parasites you are dealing with should die off by this time. If you don't want to risk this way and a possible parasite still being in the tank then you could do the next suggestion.
The only other suggestion that I have is starting over with new rock and sand and cleaning everything out and sanitizing the tank with vinegar. Perhaps a LFS will hold your corals until you can get the tank up and running again. Going this route would prolly be faster but you will have to deal with a possible cycle unless you add only base rock and/or fully cured LR which you would have to transport in water to make sure that there is no die-off. Just make sure you don't have a cycle and you could add your corals back in within a couple weeks. Maybe add some bacteria or LS and some pods and you would be on your way to seeding the tank and getting your bioload back up.
Good Luck!! I know how frustrating this can be....

 

[danf1973]

Originally Posted by hlcroghan
http:///forum/post/3082170
With all the problems you have been having, I would strongly suggest that you let your tank sit fishless for 6 weeks to 2 months. This may take longer than you want and is riskier because of how resistant some parasites are but is the cheapest way to go. Corals and Inverts will be fine. Any parasites you are dealing with should die off by this time. If you don't want to risk this way and a possible parasite still being in the tank then you could do the next suggestion.
The only other suggestion that I have is starting over with new rock and sand and cleaning everything out and sanitizing the tank with vinegar. Perhaps a LFS will hold your corals until you can get the tank up and running again. Going this route would prolly be faster but you will have to deal with a possible cycle unless you add only base rock and/or fully cured LR which you would have to transport in water to make sure that there is no die-off. Just make sure you don't have a cycle and you could add your corals back in within a couple weeks. Maybe add some bacteria or LS and some pods and you would be on your way to seeding the tank and getting your bioload back up.
Good Luck!! I know how frustrating this can be....

Thanks man great idea. The other thing was I di buy some florida "dead rock" that i had mixed with this tank hoping for it to take off. I'm wondering if by chance these rock are holding on to something? I took them out of the tank but I rather wait 6weeks then to tear down at this time you know.

 

[windlasher]

Originally Posted by danf1973
http:///forum/post/3082139
What about the few coral? Both have attached themselves to live rock? could i do a freshwater dip? what about the sand? remove/replace? filters just clean and like you said start over?
that might not be a bad idea. corals dont usually carry things that affect fish, so you could... Here is what I would do.
set up a 10 gal QT and put some rocks from your DT in there with the corals and a cheap 20g HOB filter.
drain your tank, put the rest of the rocks in large containers, clean your sand very well, with fresh or RO water to kill everything and clean the tank very well, too.
Set up your tank from scratch, having also cleaned any filters, filter media, hoses, etc.
Set up your tank again with just sand and water. cycle it as normal.
Then, I would find a local LFS and buy some already cured rock (just a few pounds or so) and put that in there. Make sure its fully cured and no hitchhikers.
If you want to be sure, I would then soak the rest of your LR in RO water to kill it off and let it cure again before putting it back in your tank. You can scrub it with rock prep to help that along more quickly.
When your tank is cycled, buy 1 CHEAP fish and put him in the QT. if he lives in there you can transfer him. You could even QT him NOW while your tank is cycling.
YES, this is all a bit drastic, but its the only way to be sure if you cannot isolate the problem.

 

[danf1973]

Originally Posted by windlasher
http:///forum/post/3082173
that might not be a bad idea. corals dont usually carry things that affect fish, so you could... Here is what I would do.
set up a 10 gal QT and put some rocks from your DT in there with the corals and a cheap 20g HOB filter.
drain your tank, put the rest of the rocks in large containers, clean your sand very well, with fresh or RO water to kill everything and clean the tank very well, too.
Set up your tank from scratch, having also cleaned any filters, filter media, hoses, etc.
Set up your tank again with just sand and water. cycle it as normal.
Then, I would find a local LFS and buy some already cured rock (just a few pounds or so) and put that in there. Make sure its fully cured and no hitchhikers.
If you want to be sure, I would then soak the rest of your LR in RO water to kill it off and let it cure again before putting it back in your tank. You can scrub it with rock prep to help that along more quickly.
When your tank is cycled, buy 1 CHEAP fish and put him in the QT. if he lives in there you can transfer him. You could even QT him NOW while your tank is cycling.
YES, this is all a bit drastic, but its the only way to be sure if you cannot isolate the problem.
So let me get this right should I do the corals that are hooked into the live rock and do a freshwater dip then put them into the 55g which seems to be doing fine? then drain the 75 clean filters and so and just reset it up and go from there??

 

[kspops]

I am in the Holiday / Tarpon Springs area and I have a 20G I used as a QT / Cycle tank for my 135G. I had a Clown and a Royal Gramma plus clean up crew in there for about 2 months while the 135G was cycling. It is now just a hospital tank I use for new fish and finds. The light will not work for corals, but if need be, give me a PM. I can always loan it out for saving fish. And you may want to get in with a local club for more support, I can get you that info as well, Either PM or E-mail to kspops@yahoo.com . Hope it works out for you.

 

[windlasher]

Originally Posted by danf1973
http:///forum/post/3082183
So let me get this right should I do the corals that are hooked into the live rock and do a freshwater dip then put them into the 55g which seems to be doing fine? then drain the 75 clean filters and so and just reset it up and go from there??
For now, I would fill your QT with tank water, get a HOB filter, put the rocks with the corals in the QT and let that go while you rebuild your main DT.
I would not put anything from the 75 into the 55 because IF there is something there. you don't want to transfer it and have two toxic tanks.
The problem is you dont know whats wrong or if there is a toxin in there or anything. the only way to be sure is to start over.

 

[vinnyraptor]

Originally Posted by danf1973
http:///forum/post/3082183
So let me get this right should I do the corals that are hooked into the live rock and do a freshwater dip then put them into the 55g which seems to be doing fine? then drain the 75 clean filters and so and just reset it up and go from there??

relax! but do NOT dip corals in freshwater, lol. just put everything in the 55. coral,s rock, any livestock you have left. no bacterial infection will harm your corals or live for any significant time on your rocks or in the water column.
break down the 75. just drain, clean everything with a vinegar/water solution, rinse with tap water! lol. dry and buy new sand, filter media, etc. refill with fresh salt preferably made with RO water. cycle with a large raw shrimp from your grocery store or new/different LR from anywhere other than the 55.
back to the 55 watch it carefully and research and ask questions about anything you see. dont put any medicines in the tank. if you have any fish left and they get sick make sure you identify the cause this time. do 25 to 35% water changes weekly for about 6 weeks. if this tank is or goes fishless continue doing the water changes for atleast 6 weeks. if it does go fishless for 6 weeks . try 1 chromis or cheap clown and monitor another 8 weeks.
dont cross contaminate, use different buckets, nets, etc for each tank until they both show no signs of any illness for 6 months or so. Oh and set up a 10 or 20 gallon QT while your at it. cycle with raw shrimp and buy everything new for it. should cost no more than 60 bucks or so.
any fish purchased should go in the QT for atleast a few weeks. No LR is needed in the QT not even sand. pvc elbows make good caves and rubble rock makes a good bio filter.

 

[danf1973]

Originally Posted by kspops
http:///forum/post/3082202
I am in the Holiday / Tarpon Springs area and I have a 20G I used as a QT / Cycle tank for my 135G. I had a Clown and a Royal Gramma plus clean up crew in there for about 2 months while the 135G was cycling. It is now just a hospital tank I use for new fish and finds. The light will not work for corals, but if need be, give me a PM. I can always loan it out for saving fish. And you may want to get in with a local club for more support, I can get you that info as well, Either PM or E-mail to kspops@yahoo.com . Hope it works out for you.
Thanks man but the fish in the 75 are dead now=( Uugghh

 

[danf1973]

Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/3082229
relax! but do NOT dip corals in freshwater, lol. just put everything in the 55. coral,s rock, any livestock you have left. no bacterial infection will harm your corals or live for any significant time on your rocks or in the water column.
break down the 75. just drain, clean everything with a vinegar/water solution, rinse with tap water! lol. dry and buy new sand, filter media, etc. refill with fresh salt preferably made with RO water. cycle with a large raw shrimp from your grocery store or new/different LR from anywhere other than the 55.
back to the 55 watch it carefully and research and ask questions about anything you see. dont put any medicines in the tank. if you have any fish left and they get sick make sure you identify the cause this time. do 25 to 35% water changes weekly for about 6 weeks. if this tank is or goes fishless continue doing the water changes for atleast 6 weeks. if it does go fishless for 6 weeks . try 1 chromis or cheap clown and monitor another 8 weeks.
dont cross contaminate, use different buckets, nets, etc for each tank until they both show no signs of any illness for 6 months or so. Oh and set up a 10 or 20 gallon QT while your at it. cycle with raw shrimp and buy everything new for it. should cost no more than 60 bucks or so.
any fish purchased should go in the QT for atleast a few weeks. No LR is needed in the QT not even sand. pvc elbows make good caves and rubble rock makes a good bio filter.
The only problem is that I do have fish in the 55g thats why I was asking about the coral/live rock from the 75g on what to do with it to try and keep it.

 

[windlasher]

Originally Posted by danf1973
http:///forum/post/3082350
The only problem is that I do have fish in the 55g thats why I was asking about the coral/live rock from the 75g on what to do with it to try and keep it.
and which is why I said dont put them in there. put them in a QT until you figure out whats going on.

 

[vinnyraptor]

Originally Posted by danf1973
http:///forum/post/3082350
The only problem is that I do have fish in the 55g thats why I was asking about the coral/live rock from the 75g on what to do with it to try and keep it.
like i said if its bacterial its not gonna be on the LR with the coral. moving fish out of the 55 to a QT for no reason isnt a good idea. how long has the 75 been without fish? if its been a month or so i say its fine to put the LR and corals in the 55.

 

[danf1973]

Originally Posted by VinnyRaptor
http:///forum/post/3082789
like i said if its bacterial its not gonna be on the LR with the coral. moving fish out of the 55 to a QT for no reason isnt a good idea. how long has the 75 been without fish? if its been a month or so i say its fine to put the LR and corals in the 55.
The 75 has been up and running for 2-3mos the fish have been dead for 2 days now. Every time i think is ok and put a fish in the belly up=( So i wont fresh water dip the corals/Lr and tear it down and soak the Lr/coral in a bucket till i have it up and running I guess. I guess I was trying to save the 2 corals I had by transferring them to the 55g but wont. Anyway guys thanks for everyones help.

 

[spanko]

Originally Posted by danf1973
http:///forum/post/3082819
The 75 has been up and running for 2-3mos the fish have been dead for 2 days now. Every time i think is ok and put a fish in the belly up=( So i wont fresh water dip the corals/Lr and tear it down and soak the Lr/coral in a bucket till i have it up and running I guess. I guess I was trying to save the 2 corals I had by transferring them to the 55g but wont. Anyway guys thanks for everyones help.
"alkalinity and pH are all normal ranges, medications that I have used are the herbal ones for bacterica as well as anit-fungus. After all the fish died i was told to try and use the Florimen to kill any spores in the tank"
Please list those medications with the brand names and how much you have added and how many times.
"Yes some green/brown around the bottom but the whole tank in this cream colored all over everything? "
Please provide a picture of this.
"i'm pretty sure it was ick, there were no classic signs of salt looking specs but like shedding that starts and kills in 48hrs, ever fish dies that goes in my tank. I have treated all fish/tank as well with bacteria and fungial. None have been able to keep the fish alive or treat the tank?"
Again what was used with brand names and what procedure did you use?
"The only problem is that I do have fish in the 55g thats why I was asking about the coral/live rock from the 75g on what to do with it to try and keep it."
Do not transfer anything form the tank that has the problem into the tank that does not until you get whatever problem you have under control
For me, I would do nothing to the 75 gallon at this point, other than continue with water changes and filter material cleaning, until you can answer in detail those questions above. Stop dosing everything, let me be clear here, put no other medications chemicals food fish coral rock sand or anything else in the tank. There have been many suggestions to tear down and start over but I feel you need to answer some basic questions here first. Most often there are enough folks here that can help to isolate and correct a problem if given the needed information. I would also have your salinity checked by someone with a claibrated refactometer. JMO here.

 

[danf1973]

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3082831
"alkalinity and pH are all normal ranges, medications that I have used are the herbal ones for bacterica as well as anit-fungus. After all the fish died i was told to try and use the Florimen to kill any spores in the tank"
Please list those medications with the brand names and how much you have added and how many times.
"Yes some green/brown around the bottom but the whole tank in this cream colored all over everything? "
Please provide a picture of this.
"i'm pretty sure it was ick, there were no classic signs of salt looking specs but like shedding that starts and kills in 48hrs, ever fish dies that goes in my tank. I have treated all fish/tank as well with bacteria and fungial. None have been able to keep the fish alive or treat the tank?"
Again what was used with brand names and what procedure did you use?
"The only problem is that I do have fish in the 55g thats why I was asking about the coral/live rock from the 75g on what to do with it to try and keep it."
Do not transfer anything form the tank that has the problem into the tank that does not until you get whatever problem you have under control
For me, I would do nothing to the 75 gallon at this point, other than continue with water changes and filter material cleaning, until you can answer in detail those questions above. Stop dosing everything, let me be clear here, put no other medications chemicals food fish coral rock sand or anything else in the tank. There have been many suggestions to tear down and start over but I feel you need to answer some basic questions here first. Most often there are enough folks here that can help to isolate and correct a problem if given the needed information. I would also have your salinity checked by someone with a claibrated refactometer. JMO here.
Ok running a bio wetdry with a marineland back filter for extra carbon and phosphate packs that help with lowering phosphates and so on. I had around 80ibs of live rock which half where the dead florida yellowstone which I know causes high phosphates but was hoping with lowering phosphate things they like most rocks sold as"live rock" would continue to grow the good bacteria. Now I will say that I noticed a small blue like growth or something to that effect on the end of one of those rocks which i decided yesterday since there had no signs of growth to pull them out. The 2 big rocks I have in there now have been cured and been in a saltwater tank for many yrs these are the 2 rocks with the corals.
So when my first set of fish died I was told to try these to medications bc no one knew what I had growing.
1. Pimafix antifungal
2. Melafix antibacterial
when those showed no signs of working and the fish died again I was pointed in the direction of using Formalin.
So I used all those did the water changes and added back fresh carbon. The water levels for Nitrates/Nitrites were 0.0 amn was 0 also. Ph level was 8.2 and alk/sal were 1.023. Water temp runs in the green zone and as far as flow I have several powerheads running in the tank as well. So again all the fish look good for 3-4 days then the next day are all dead. I can't think of anyother things to list here. Thanks again guys